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zfarsh

Black More Gasping Air Suddenly

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I have a Black Moore that i suddenly noticed was gasping more than usual, and hanging more to the top than usual. It still can come down at the tank, specially when feeding it from my hand (i only feed by hand) and is energetic in those times, but it is gasping alot on top and not nibling at the bottom as it used to, and at night, in total dark, always hitting stuff and not as stable swimer as when i first got it 3 weeks ago. I have 3 goldfish and all very friendly and come eat from my hand. I dont know if somehow i might have removed some slime coat on it by touching it, i certainly hope not. The only new thing i have really done is give the goldfish some green peas which they were mostly spitting it back out, but eat some, but i feel this did something as one of my guppies became fat after that incident. I unfrose the green peas in water, and crushed it with my finger, though maybe some of the skin stayed. As I am a newb, i need help, and in the panick mode.

*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0 to 5ppm (it was at 0 this morning)

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 5ppm

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? ~7.6

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? ~7.4

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 75 Gallon Planted tank, runing for 3 - 4 weeks

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 1) Eheim 2217 + Aquaclear 110 (all standard media + purigen on the cannister)

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Trying to change weekly 25%. Did another 10% in mid water changing cycling once the black moore day after seing Black Moore gasping

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 10% this morning

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? All 2-3" Fantail and Oranda and the discussed Black Moore. Some MTS in the sand. Also 5 fancy guppies. 1 Fancy guppy is quarantined after feeding it green peas, as it became fat and staying at the top untill i figure it if "he" is a "she", or if he will heal naturally after a few days of fasting.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? New Life Spectrum 2 - 3 pieces each twice a day. Only source of food currently. Tried green peas 2 days ago, and didnt go too well, i think this might have cause some imbalance.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? NO

[*]Any medications added to the tank? NO

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Dont see anything visiaully really, except maybeat the joint where the lower forward fins are, it is all white, but only saying that cause i know white spot is bad, but cant tell if fish was like that from the get go, and if this is even a sign.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? It goes to the top alot to gasp, but i dont see any red spots. Fish can go to the bottom, but i feel it is struggling more than before to staying at the bottom. When i put my hand to feed or do plant cleaning, it imediately spots me and comes nibbling at my hand, so it seems aware and fine at those times, but i remember at the begining, it was going through the bottom nibbling like the other goldfish are, or through the bottom plants. It seems less relaxed and bumping into things when in total dark last night.

Extra:

- Substrate is Play Sand

Pls help me, i am panicking and not sleeping well being worried for my black moore.

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When they gulp at the surface like that they do get air bubbles in them and have a hard time staying down, usually until night time.

First thing that comes to my mind is flukes. Hopefully a Helper will come around soon to help you out. :)

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Any way to get a video of the behavior you describe? :)

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First thing I see is your tank is not cycled. While you cycle a tank with fish in it you need to do water changes every couple days and do very large ones.

One other tip your guppies need a new home of their own. They have different requirements then goldfish and the goldfish well eat them as/when they get larger.

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Question for Hidr,

Tank not cycled:

ok, tank is not cycled, but by checking the Amonia and Nitrates every day or two, am not getting high numbers, would this not take into account the benefits of the bacterias which is to take care of Amonia/Nitrite? If there is something i am missing in the logic, can you pls elaborate. Actually, i think the tank should be 5 - 6 weeks, as i took 2 weeks before introducing the fish. But i still want to know the reasoning please.

As well, note the tank is planted, with both fully aquatic and submerged plants, which reduces the amonia/nitrate/nitrates.

Finaly, i have also added 3-4 weeks ago SuperBac, which i have seen good results in forums which used them. I however understand this is not trusted everywhere, thus why i check for the amonia/nitrite every day or two.

On the Guppy Comments: Yes, I am aware of that, and those 5 guppies would not be increased or readded if they died.

The final tank, in time, should be 5 - 6 goldfish, 2 bristlenose plecos.

Reply to Grace: I can try to take a video, how do i post it though, or where (never done it before)

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Are you able to use photobucket?

You can link from there. :)

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Hi,

I just wanted to comment on the following:

checking the Amonia and Nitrates every day or two, am not getting high numbers,

Above you mention 0 - 5 ppm. 5 ppm is more than 10x above the dangerous level for goldfish, so I wouldn't refer in any way to it as 'low'. (or did you mean 0.5? this is still on the high side if there's fish in the tank). With a fully cycled filter of sufficient size, ammonia and nitrite levels are always at zero, which is essential because any level above zero constitutes a stressor for you fish. Even though e.g. goldfish can cope with 0.25 for a limited amount of time, these levels will act as a low-level chronic stressor, which on the long run will take its toll just as much as a high level acute stressor would.

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Just to add, a cycled tank show 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites at all times. In this tank I personally would keep just six goldfish. If you really want a pair of bristlenose, then five goldfish would be the max, but that is assuming no other fish in there.

When you set up the tank for two weeks before you added the fish, did you add anything to jumpstart or feed the cycle? If it was just a filled tank running there wouldn't be anything to get that cycle going.

I would also suggest treating the main tank with salt and prazi if you have never treated for flukes before.

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Sorry, i had made a mistake, i meant to say amonia is between 0 - .25ppm (i was at work when i posted this, and confused it with the nitrate units). I used SuperBac to jumpstart it.

Question: If i do put Salt and Prazi, would this be bad for the plants? I have never added any medications to a tank before, so not sure on the procedures.

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ok, here are two short videos, one showing the gulping, the other showing what seems to be a scale damage i just noticed today (must have happened last night). I cannot say for sure it is a scale/skin damage by hitting something, but it looks like it, but as i dont know for sure what Ick is, i could be wrong.

http://s1177.photobucket.com/albums/x349/zfarsh/Black%20Moore%20Gulping/

The Password is: goldfish

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Important note: the black moore is not always gasping anymore, but sometimes. The fantail did some as well, but doesnt do it all the time and is pretty stable in the water and swiming. The Black More is more stable today as well, though not perfect swiming. I also added a third video showing the setup, overall tank. Finally, i tried to see how the gills were doing by taking the fish but really had trouble opening the gills, and didnt want to hurt the fish physically. So i wasnt able to determine if for sure it is all red or not.

Also note Black Moore is currently not showing behavior of hitting everything. I cannot tell if the white spot is damage to the scale/skin because it hit something last night, or if it is a virus. My guess is it must have hit an object last night.

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The gulping looks normal. Unfortunately, goldfish are notorious air gulpers. Several of my fish air gulp daily. The gulping can cause the fish to float as well (making it harder to stay at the bottom).

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I have a metal part in there which i added a day or two ago, which is for showers, to hold parts, and had two succion cups. It says on it "will not rust", but normally it is not submerged all the time. Should i be removing this?

Also, what color is the poop supposed to be, and is it supposed to be long? Can it be half red / half white?

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Is there a chance this is caused by a parasite?

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Couldnt quiet see, but that white spot is it comming from under the scales or is it on top?

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