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babicake828

Orandas Don't Have Head Problems! - Informative Wen Thread

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So someone (a friend of mine) comes over to see my 4 beloved goldies, Kenny,Eric,Spooks and Butters. Butters being a redcap oranda, My friend was shocked when she saw him. She screamed and asked me "Does Butters have head problems?" My eyes widened "NO!" i yelled "He's perfectly fine!" "No! He is not" she then yelled. "His....His brain is on the outside of his head! Either that or....Does your fish have a tumor?" I laughed. "Have you ever heard of a wen? That NATURAL growth on the head of an oranda?" I asked, "It's all natural. They all have it. It's fine." So....Us goldfish lovers know this, but, a wen is all natural. It's not a tumor, it's not his brain. It's just a special growth that orandas have. You probably all knew that, but for whoever didn't, Know you know! Your welcome!

A HAPPY HELLO FROM ERIC, KENNY, SPOOKS AND BUTTERS!

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Yes, that's right honey :)

When I first saw a goldfish with wen, I thought it looked freaky and that that would be abnormal. :)

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Well actually the wen is a genetic deformity that has been exploited by breeders for it's interesting look. Really goldfish shouldn't have wens, it can grow over their eyes and cause problems with sight. It is a tumour, isn't it?

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Nothing thought much about it. I could someone who didn't know thinking they might be sick.

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Everyone who sees Wisco says "brainfish"... :rolleyes: ... ohhhhh so funny guys!!!.. dumbies... I love orandas they are my favorite.. although I don't want one that has to be trimmed.. that would scare me :)

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I had a little 6-7 year old boy at a pet shop tell me that "the red and white goldfish has a funny hat". Too cute.

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I had a little 6-7 year old boy at a pet shop tell me that "the red and white goldfish has a funny hat". Too cute.

Aww :)

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Well actually the wen is a genetic deformity that has been exploited by breeders for it's interesting look. Really goldfish shouldn't have wens, it can grow over their eyes and cause problems with sight. It is a tumour, isn't it?

It's not a tumor. It's a simple growth that orandas have. It's all natural. Although, it can interfeire a bit with their vision, but nothing too serious, really. It's all nat-u-ral.

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Definition for tumour:

tumor: an abnormal new mass of tissue that serves no purpose.

It is a tumour. It is natural, as all tumours are but they are not supposed to have it.

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Although, it can interfeire a bit with their vision, but nothing too serious, really.

This is not quite correct. For some orandas, their wen can grow so much that it blocks their vision and can cause them to become inactive. This happened recently to a member of this forum, iwebe10. She ended up having to trim his wen.

Edited by dnalex

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Although, it can interfeire a bit with their vision, but nothing too serious, really.

This is not quite correct. For some orandas, their wen can grow so much that it blocks their vision and can cause them to become inactive. This happened recently to a member of this forum, iwebe10. She ended up having to trim his wen.

Orandas can have their wen trimmed O.O OMG that sounds painful...I hope i never have to get my oranda's wen trimmed...

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Definition for tumour:

tumor: an abnormal new mass of tissue that serves no purpose.

It is a tumour. It is natural, as all tumours are but they are not supposed to have it.

Goldfish like orandas and lionheads are supposed to have that growth. On another goldfish like a common or a ryukin it would be considered a deformity but on an oranda, it's just a simple head growth that they are supposed to have.

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Definition for tumour:

tumor: an abnormal new mass of tissue that serves no purpose.

It is a tumour. It is natural, as all tumours are but they are not supposed to have it.

Goldfish like orandas and lionheads are supposed to have that growth. On another goldfish like a common or a ryukin it would be considered a deformity but on an oranda, it's just a simple head growth that they are supposed to have.

It's not natural. Natural carp (goldfish are carp) in the wild do not have any wen growth on their heads. It's a mutation that humans liked, so they took advantage of it and selected fish to breed that had that mutation. I think that's what skikes means when he says it is a "tumor" of sorts.

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Definition for tumour:

tumor: an abnormal new mass of tissue that serves no purpose.

It is a tumour. It is natural, as all tumours are but they are not supposed to have it.

It's not technically a tumor since it's the standard. If it didn't have the wen, it wouldn't be an oranda. However, no it's not the "wild type" phenotype. So in a way, while it's NOT a tumor, you are both right.

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Since the definition of a tumor is 1. A swelling of a part of the body, generally without inflammation, caused by an abnormal growth of tissue, whether benign or malignant. 2. neoplasm; a new growth of tissue in which cell multiplication is uncontrolled and progressive. Than yes that is a tumor. Considering is qualifies under those terms it doesn't matter if it is common or not. Wen growth is uncontrollable and is the multiplication of the cells of the facial area. It is a genetic fluke that humans have bred to become common among those strains it is most prevalent in.

Edited by Pearlscaleperfect

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interesting educational thread.. i will see if we can pin it for easy referencing.

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I definitely see where you are coming from, however, it is NOT abnormal, therefore NOT a tumor.

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Like Sakura said already, it is a mutation.

It's not natural by any means as in FOUND in nature. This was started by breeders that bred for that mutation just like tele's or fantails or any other fancy goldfish. ;)

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^but abnormal is not what makes it a tumor, it is excessive and uncontrolled cell growth which biologically makes it a tumor!

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I had read the wen was more like a wart than a tumor. So what's the difference between a wart and a tumor?

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A wart is a specific type of skin tumor which is caused by a virus.

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The headgrowth of Goldfish is neither a tumor, nor a wart: the headgrowth is caused by overgrown skin folds already there. This skin folds are present in even wild Goldfish.

Compare it to a human eating too much, the beer belly is not a tumor or a wart, just skin and other cells stretching trying to keep that inside that is suppose to stay inside!

Pom-pom Goldfish is another example - the tiny nostrils are already there but they are bred like that - exaggerated nostrils.

(If not as explained a Veiltail Goldfish is towing two big tumors behind him ;) )

Hope this clear this up.

Lennard

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....It is a tumour, isn't it?

Technically, yes, it does fit into the definition of a tumor.

tu·mor (tmr, ty-) KEY

NOUN:

An abnormal growth of tissue resulting from uncontrolled, progressive multiplication of cells and serving no physiological function; a neoplasm.

A swollen part; a swelling.

So, then, medically, you would have to go on to add an adjective to describe the tumor. Benign, malignant, etc., even though it has come to be accepted that when one says, "tumor," it's automatically assumed to be a bad thing......

I suppose, according to medical terminology, a wen would probably actually fit into the category of a "false tumor," which is described as: a "structural enlargement due to extravasation, exudation, echinococcus, or retained sebaceous matter."

hmmmmm.......

Edited by Lynda Von G

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The headgrowth of Goldfish is neither a tumor, nor a wart: the headgrowth is caused by overgrown skin folds already there. This skin folds are present in even wild Goldfish.

ALL tumors originate from tissue that is already there!

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All you need to know:

(Test done on the tissue after the growth was removed surgically)

Samples from the excised skin tissues were collected,

fixed in 10% buffered formalin and after 24 h were processed

according to the methods described by Bullock [2]. Sections 7 μm

thick were cut using a microtome, stained with haematoxyline

? eosin (HE) and observed using light microscopy. Histologically

hyperplasia and disorganization of the epidermis

were noticed. Extensive sloughing of epidermal cells of the

outermost layers was also observed. The number of the skin

mucous cells was increased. In some areas, spongiosis of the

epidermis and increased number of chromatophores in the

dermis were observed. Finally, significant deposition of adipose

tissue was observed subcutaneously.

Extract from:

http://www.fecava.org/files/ejcap/842.pdf

Lennard

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