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Orandafan22

Curing Ick

13 posts in this topic

Hey,

The gentlemen seem to have come down with white spot. I got added aquarium salt and am using Rid-Ick. The Rid-Ick says to remove the carbon from the filter. How long can/should the fish go with a filter without carbon?

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[*]Ammonia Level? .4

[*]Nitrite Level? n/a

[*]Nitrate level? n/a

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.8

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? na

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? I have a reader in the tank, its a Searchem Alarm system

[*]Water temperature? n/a- room temp 69?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 50 gallon- 3 days but I had them in a different tank before that for about 5 days

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Tetra 30-60 and an Aqua Clear 50

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? I haven't done a water change yet

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? I have three 1.5 inch orandas, a 1.5 inch ryukin, and a 1.5 inch ranchu

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? I use Aqueon Goldfish Water Renewal, Aqueon Plant Food, API AMMO Lock, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus, and some aquarium salt(for the ick)

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? I feed them 3 minutes worth of Pellets once a day, and some bloodworms later on

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?nope

[*]Any medications added to the tank? oh...yea i listed them with the additives

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? yea, white dots...ick

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? yea, they get up and swim for food or occasionally swim around but mostly chilling at the bottom

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Could you please try testing your nitrite and nitrate? If you don't have test kits for those, please get an API liquid kit to determine your nitrite and nitrate. I think it would be a good idea to test your ammonia as well. I'm not sure yet I'd trust the ammonia reading even though that is toxic at that level. Doing a water change at this point won't hurt until you have the API kit.

How much salt was dosed?

Carbon is irrelevant. You can do well for years without having to use carbon. And it is disposable so you have to replace it every 4-6 weeks anyway otherwise, it will prove ineffective once it has collected enough substances that it is designed to absorb.

If you do not have a heater, please get yourself one and crank the temp to 80 degrees Fahrenheit max. Eheim brand if you can find one. That's the highest I would advise for goldfish. You have to make sure water is well aerated as elevated temp and salt can deplete oxygen level. Goldfish are heavy oxygen consumers.

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please also test for ammonia straight from the tap. also, if you can post a couple of pics of the white spots.. do they all have the white spots or just the orandas. and are the white spots on their bodies or on there head where the wen is.. they are rather young and i am thinking perhaps you are seeing wen growth instead of ich?

i agree with lupin, we need to know the water params for nitrites and nitrates aswell as the ammonia from the tap.. i also recommend i nice big healthy waterchange.. 60-70%

do you have any bubblers in the tank?

when you moved your fish to the other tank, did you use the same filter or was it a new filter? if it was new, was it cycled at all?

carbon is not required really.. most here use it to help remove medication from the water. it stops working after about 6 weeks and then starts adding nasties back into the tank..

you say you haven't done a water change yet as you have had them in there for 3 days.. can i ask what your intentions of routine with your new tank is? ie, how often will you water change and how much every time you water change? also, do you have gravel or any ornaments in the tank?

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please also test for ammonia straight from the tap. also, if you can post a couple of pics of the white spots.. do they all have the white spots or just the orandas. and are the white spots on their bodies or on there head where the wen is.. they are rather young and i am thinking perhaps you are seeing wen growth instead of ich?

i agree with lupin, we need to know the water params for nitrites and nitrates aswell as the ammonia from the tap.. i also recommend i nice big healthy waterchange.. 60-70%

do you have any bubblers in the tank?

when you moved your fish to the other tank, did you use the same filter or was it a new filter? if it was new, was it cycled at all?

carbon is not required really.. most here use it to help remove medication from the water. it stops working after about 6 weeks and then starts adding nasties back into the tank..

you say you haven't done a water change yet as you have had them in there for 3 days.. can i ask what your intentions of routine with your new tank is? ie, how often will you water change and how much every time you water change? also, do you have gravel or any ornaments in the tank?

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Ok.

Lupin,

1)I added about a cup of salt (50 TEA spoons)

2)The Ammonia reader in my tank (brand new) is reading between safe and alert but leaning towards safe. I think thats fine.

3)I don't yet have a kit for nitrates/nitrites but because i'm doing an in fish cycle, I believe it is too early to see the appearance of those yet( but i'm sure i'm wrong). I'll get a reader today.

4) I figured because I gave them a dose of Rid-Ich that carbon was relevant. But you say that it isn't necessary to have carbon to filter your tank? well...awesome. That'll make things that much easier.

5)I have a heater, I just hooked it up last night to help them get over this. I read it in the "Ick" article. I have it set to 73. I didn't want to stupidly make it too hot. I just turned it up to 79? thats safe?

and Stakos,

1)lemme do a tap reading on the ammonia for you...its at zero(which is good because i drink the stuff!)-The orandas are the only ones with physical white spots(fins, body, head) not a wen groth this stuff is ick for sure. I studied many pictures and articles. The ryukin and the ranchu are not themselves....they're just staying on the bottom.

2)yes, I will do a big water change.50/60% This 50 gallon is a whole new beast for water changes! haha

3)bubblers, yes. I have two big bubblers to keep the air nice and aerated.

4)New tank/New filter. I didn't cycle my tank. But the previous owner of the filter/tank did. I dont' know if that matters or not...theres no bio wheel

5)and lastly, I have no gravel. I have a few rocks, live plants, a roman bubbling ordiment, and a fake log they they can swim in. My intentions are to eventually be able to do a weekly 50 percent water change. I believe I have to do more now while doing the in tank cycle.

....my boys are looking sicker this morning. HELP! :(

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1. Good.

2. I'd just get API kit to be sure.

3. Same as no. 2. Get the kits to be sure. You can never be too sure. The results with nitrogen cycle always vary.

4. Yes, carbon is not necessary. I've never used that for years. It's expensive for me to replace it every month anyway so there's no point investing in it when the water is consistently clear without it.

5. 79 is safe. 80 is max. Make sure the heater is functioning properly. Get a thermometer to monitor the temp. And keep the heater in turbulent areas to disperse heat evenly.

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You'll have to continue another 10 days of treatment after ich disappears to be sure you eliminate the parasites completely. The only way for them to return would be: failing to quarantine the possible carriers properly for four weeks, and failing to complete the treatment course as appropriate. In short, shortening your treatment process because you assume everything is back in order may allow the ich to survive as a low profile infection. Ich can attack the gill tissues silently and become quite visible only when they sense their hosts weakening significantly especially by stress-related factors.

It is most vulnerable at free swimming stage but cannot be killed when they enter two other phases: cysts and feeding phase (wherein they embed themselves under the skin) as they are well protected in the process from meds. This is where elevated temp comes into play. It forces them to reproduce quickly thus the free swimming parasites are quickly destroyed by the present meds.

Be sure you vacuum the bottom thoroughly to remove the cysts. And as a precaution, sterilize equipments after use so you will not transfer the cysts to other tanks.

Ich cannot survive without fish for a few days and cannot host on invertebrates at all.

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You'll have to continue another 10 days of treatment after ich disappears to be sure you eliminate the parasites completely. The only way for them to return would be: failing to quarantine the possible carriers properly for four weeks, and failing to complete the treatment course as appropriate. In short, shortening your treatment process because you assume everything is back in order may allow the ich to survive as a low profile infection. Ich can attack the gill tissues silently and become quite visible only when they sense their hosts weakening significantly especially by stress-related factors.

It is most vulnerable at free swimming stage but cannot be killed when they enter two other phases: cysts and feeding phase (wherein they embed themselves under the skin) as they are well protected in the process from meds. This is where elevated temp comes into play. It forces them to reproduce quickly thus the free swimming parasites are quickly destroyed by the present meds.

Be sure you vacuum the bottom thoroughly to remove the cysts. And as a precaution, sterilize equipments after use so you will not transfer the cysts to other tanks.

Ich cannot survive without fish for a few days and cannot host on invertebrates at all.

I'm going to devastate this god ###### ick! My fish must recover. I just hate seeing them like this...Thanks Lupin

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Good luck! You should be seeing some sort of results after a few days MAX. However, the unfortunate thing here is that you are cycling the tank at the time same time your fish developed ich. So, they will have to deal with the ich and ammonia & nitrite poisoning concurrently. For time being, it might be best if you do daily water changes to keep the ammonia (and eventually nitrite) levels to a minimum. Just remember you will need to re-salt after every water change. It can be a pain to have to do daily salt & water changes. I wonder if you would be more successful moving them into a smaller QT where you CAN do daily changes and salt. At the same time, you can use the time to do a fishless cycle for your 50 gallon.

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Good luck! You should be seeing some sort of results after a few days MAX. However, the unfortunate thing here is that you are cycling the tank at the time same time your fish developed ich. So, they will have to deal with the ich and ammonia & nitrite poisoning concurrently. For time being, it might be best if you do daily water changes to keep the ammonia (and eventually nitrite) levels to a minimum. Just remember you will need to re-salt after every water change. It can be a pain to have to do daily salt & water changes. I wonder if you would be more successful moving them into a smaller QT where you CAN do daily changes and salt. At the same time, you can use the time to do a fishless cycle for your 50 gallon.

possibly...my girlfriend is using the other tank already for her bettas so i have don't have a spot for em. but i just picked up some more salt and a nice bucket for the water changes...i'm worried about sucking the fish into the hose. Should i remove them from the tank?

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No. Don't remove them from the tank. I think taking them out and putting them back in etc will stress them out more than just leaving them be. I use my python to change water at least once a week, and the fish are very used to them. A few even comes to check out and nip at the python lol. Just keep a watch so they don't get inside or get sucked in, but that should not happen.

You can also use clear platic tubs as QT. That's what I am doing.

As for salt, I recommend trying Morton's canning & pickling salt. The come in a 4lb box at grocery stores & Wal*xxxx etc, and they are under $2 per box. So this is a life saver when you are salting and having to do lots of water changes. Just make sure that you get the right salt...it will say on the box that there is no additives.

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