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Guest Charming Kingyo

Big Lump On Oranda Wen

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Guest Charming Kingyo

[*]Ammonia Level? 1.0 before water change (I changed 75% after the test)

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 0

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Aquarium Pharmaceutical Test Kit

[*]Water temperature? 60F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 gallons and it has been running for 2 years

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Two filters: one came with the tank (brand unknown) and the other is a Bio-Wheel Filter

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Once every 2 weeks, 50%-75%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 fish, all ranging the 3 inches (not including tail)

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Pellets, Flakes, Bloodworms, Plankton, Baby Brine Shrimps etc. feed once or twice a day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No

[*]Any medications added to the tank? Used Permoxyn to swab the lump

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Big lump on wen that appeared overnight,slightly frayed and discolored fins

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Staying at the bottom and gulping for air

I am aware that my water has ammonia, since the perfect cycle I maintained for two years decided to crash completely on me. I didn't notice there was a problem until this morning, I saw a huge lump on my oranda's wen, which I didn't see the day before. It pretty much gave me an immediate alert that something was wrong with the water quality. I did the water test and saw that the cycle crashed due to no nitrite and nitrate presence.

My other two fish (fantail and red cap) are well and doing their usual routine but my blue oranda is another story. Despise being lethargic, he still responds eagerly to food, which means it may not be too late to cure him. The lump in question is the same color has his wen, although after swabbing it with Permoxyn and a cotton swap, I notice a few minutes afterward there was a few strings floating from it but as I am typing this, the strings are now gone.

I ask for your help and knowledge. =)

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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How large would you say the lump on his wen is? Smaller than his eyeball? Larger than a pencil eraser?

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Guest Charming Kingyo

About the size of a pencil eraser, that I am certain. And it's right in-between the eyes... sorta reminds me of my teenage years when I had the occasional big pimple on my forehead.

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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I'm going to leave this one to the mods to help with -- definitely out of my league if the lump's that large. Best wishes to you.

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Possible pic Please?

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Hi there

Yes it certainly does sound like a cycle crash! 3 fish in a 29 gallon means you are stocked heavily, you should increase your water changes to at least once a week. That would be a great start :) It's very odd that you're not registering any nitrates. Even during a cycle crash, they should still be there. Is the test old?

Also, do you have any way of determining your pH? The strings you saw and the gulping make me wonder if it may be off as well.

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Guest Charming Kingyo

I believe the test kit is old... big mistake on my part for not buying another one for so long! -waits to get hit by the Koko stick- As for pictures, I will try to get one ASAP. I am sure it will help you all even more

I am aware of being overstocked... and I wonder how I managed a good strong cycled tank for two years. :o

Once I am done posting this reply, I will be on my way to the pet shop to get a new test kit and air pump. I will also test the PH shortly after I get back with the new test kit.

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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Guest Charming Kingyo

I believe the test kit is old... big mistake on my part for not buying another one for so long! -waits to get hit by the Koko stick- As for pictures, I will try to get one ASAP. I am sure it will help you all even more

I am aware of being overstocked... and I wonder how I managed a good strong cycled tank for two years. :o

Once I am done posting this reply, I will be on my way to the pet shop to get a new test kit and air pump. I will also test the PH shortly after I get back with the new test kit.

Sorry for the double post. I just got back home and got into an argument with my fiance on some personal issues. Ugh, I wish he would cut me some slack.

Anyways, I redid the tests with the new kit I bought by Hagen and the results in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are still the same as posted above. As for the PH, it is in between 7.0-7.5, which I assume is good for goldfish.

Edit: I believe the crash was due to the bio-wheel barely turning due to the lack of media in the other compartment of the filter, thus making the water level insufficient to turn the wheel... and also due to my filter cleaning (with tank water of course) since my father requested it: he said the room had a fishy odor because of it. :rolleyes:

As for pictures, I will wait tomorrow since I decided to cover the tank so all 3 fish can rest without any disturbance, especially my sick one.

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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Filter cleaning?? So did you replace all the media? If so that definitly explains the crash, and lack of nitrates. You may have restarted your cycle :( The wheel doesn't actually make that big of a difference, I've had them stop for days with no harm done.

As for the odor, next time just add some fresh carbon to the filter and that should take care of it.

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Guest Charming Kingyo

Oddly, I did not replace the media at all. I only squeezed them to get rid of the extra gunk in tank water. =)

Fresh carbon can remove odor? I didn't know that! I'll go buy those next time my father complains!

Anyways, some updates;

After a good night sleep, my sick oranda is much more active than yesterday. He's swimming much more and still eating whenever it's feeding time. Although the lump is still there and I noticed before giving it a Permoxyn swab that it had a white-ish color. After the swab, that colored spot on the lump was gone. I wonder if it could be fungus. I will be doing another 75% water change today to lower the ammonia.

Also funny thing, I woke up sick with a very very sore throat and right now I am barely able to speak. :whatjust:

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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Guest Charming Kingyo

Somehow the edit button disappeared? :whatjust:

Anyways, I could not get an actual photo of my fish with the lump, but I drew one rather quickly to have an idea on what it actually looks like.

jpg.jpg

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Guest Charming Kingyo

Gah, I hate bumping like this but since no one replied for about 1-2 days, maybe I should update with what's going on.

I moved my fish away from the main tank and put him in a large bucket along with the air pump and smaller air stone since I don't have a spare tank I can use. Because the volume of water is much smaller than the tank itself, I change the water twice a day. Surprisingly the big lump diminished in size, but I am still swabbing the spot with Permoxyn and a cotton q-tip, I am not taking any chances. Even though I am not giving up, I fear that my oranda may not make it. His fins are badly split here and there and he barely eats anything. He swims occasionally but float up most of the time.

At this point all I can think of is keep changing the bucket water and swab his lump with permoxyn until it's completely gone at least. If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

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This bump is it red or just white in color, sorry having a hard time on this bump......

Split fins maybe due to the water, have you tested the water the fish is in now, check to see where the ammonia is, this may be splitting the fins. :(

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If you can't get a spare tank you could get a rubbermaid tub, those plastic tubs that are used for storage. They work just as well as a tank and are a heck of a lot cheaper. That could possibly help a lot too.

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Guest Charming Kingyo

This bump is it red or just white in color, sorry having a hard time on this bump......

Split fins maybe due to the water, have you tested the water the fish is in now, check to see where the ammonia is, this may be splitting the fins. :(

Koko: The fin started to split in the tank itself, which is why I removed him and not to mention he kept getting his tail stuck near one of the filters. Oddly enough the other two fish are fine and healthy but I am still keeping a close eye on them too. The bump is the same color as the wen but it seems that inside of it, there's some white-ish stuff but it's hard to see. The water in the bucket is fine since I just recently changed it... but like Tay said, maybe I should switch to a rubbermaid, which I do have and never thought of using that way!

Tay: Thank you for the suggestion!

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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This bump is it red or just white in color, sorry having a hard time on this bump......

Split fins maybe due to the water, have you tested the water the fish is in now, check to see where the ammonia is, this may be splitting the fins. :(

Koko: The fin started to split in the tank itself, which is why I removed him and not to mention he kept getting his tail stuck near one of the filters. Oddly enough the other two fish are fine and healthy but I am still keeping a close eye on them too. The bump is the same color as the wen but it seems that inside of it, there's some white-ish stuff but it's hard to see. The water in the bucket is fine since I just recently changed it... but like Tay said, maybe I should switch to a rubbermaid, which I do have and never thought of using that way!

Tay: Thank you for the suggestion!

No problem. I just put one of my fish in a rubbermaid. They work just as well as a tank. Just add an airstone and filter, and you've basically got another tank. it's more easy to monitor too. :goodluck

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Guest Charming Kingyo

UPDATE

My blue oranda is now in a 5 gallon tank since I lacked the room space for a rubbermaid. I used a spare filter and I have put the stone bubble into the hospital tank. Thanks to my Permoxyn Q-TIP swabs, the lump that was once on his forehead is completely gone, although I fear that my fish has gill flukes due to the constant air gasping, despise the oxygen. I did start swabbing close to his gil with Permoxyn a few days ago and I can see that there is some improvement. He gasps much less than he first started. His recovery his slow and most of the time he will rest at the top but he started to swim a bit more, which is a good sign.

He's such a little fighter and I'm not giving up either!

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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I am not sure you are suppose to swab the gills....

he could also be gasping due to bad water in the 5gallons - as that is tiny for a goldfish. you should test the water

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Guest Charming Kingyo

I did test my tap water and it's pretty much what it has to be: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 7.0-7.5 PH. The tank water of the 5 gallons I change twice a day so there isn't much for a build up, although testing it would'nt hurt.

I am sure 100% that my oranda has gill flukes. =/ I just hope he recovers... I wonder is there any good medecine that is effective against gill flukes?

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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Yes, you need to use Prazi for gill flukes. You can get it as PraziPro made by Hikari, or Aqua Prazi on goldfishconnection.com (not sure if they ship to Canada). As an absolute last resort you can also use Parasite Clear Tabs made by Jungle, but those are much more harsh on the fish.

With Prazi you need to do multiple rounds of treatment, because the Prazi cannot kill the egg form of flukes, and the flukes will not hatch out with Prazi in the water. So what I do is four days with Prazi, followed by three days without it. Repeat this cycle at least three times, and you should see the fluke symptoms disappear.

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Guest Charming Kingyo

Yes, you need to use Prazi for gill flukes. You can get it as PraziPro made by Hikari, or Aqua Prazi on goldfishconnection.com (not sure if they ship to Canada). As an absolute last resort you can also use Parasite Clear Tabs made by Jungle, but those are much more harsh on the fish.

With Prazi you need to do multiple rounds of treatment, because the Prazi cannot kill the egg form of flukes, and the flukes will not hatch out with Prazi in the water. So what I do is four days with Prazi, followed by three days without it. Repeat this cycle at least three times, and you should see the fluke symptoms disappear.

Parasite Clear tabs would probably be the only thing I could get my hands on, since it's the only thing I see on the shelves. Thanks for the suggestions and tip! ^^

I also tested my 5 gallon water and I detected 0.1 nitrite in the water, 0 ammonia and 0 nitrate. I am still keeping up with water change.

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Okay, I recommend you do not use the PC tabs because you have nitrite in the water. PC tabs should only be used with perfect water conditions and absolutely no salt in the water. Trust me, I lost a beautiful fish on PC tabs and salt combined. It is just too risky.

I think PC tabs can be okay to use as long as the user exercises extreme caution. In your case, since your tank is still showing cycling or a cycle bump, I would definitely not use PC tabs. If I were you I'd just go ahead and order some PraziPro. I've ordered from Drsfosterandsmith before, and they have very fast shipping. Or maybe BigAlsonline will have it.

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Guest Charming Kingyo

Thank you for all the help provided. Even though I did a lot of water change to keep the hospital tank clean as much a possible to treat my blue oranda, I have to announce that he passed away yesterday morning. He was such the little fighter but I guess it was his time to go. I've had him for 2 year, which is not a whole lot since I know they can live much more longer than that.

My husband and I buried him in our little vegetable garden, knowing that his lifeless body will be put to good use by mother nature.

RIP.

Edited by Charming Kingyo

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:rip: little fella. i'm sorry you lost him.

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