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mardaokansi

Dropsy, Omg Please Help Me

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[*]Ammonia Level?

zero

[*]Nitrite Level?

zero

[*]Nitrate level?

zero

^ no cycle, filter has been broken

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

drops

[*]Water temperature?

80

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

20 gal long, feb

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

rena filstar xp1

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

daily, 100%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

1, 3'' not including tail

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Nova Aqua +

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

Jungle Med Food Anti Bac since April 8th twice a day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

no

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

previously salt, was @ 0.3% yesterday now epsom salt 1/4 tsp per 10 gal. did a complete wc b4 adding epsom salt.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

no

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Howard was hovering in the tank corner @ an angle and gasping. I thought it was ich, started treating on April 8th w/ jungle food and 0.1% salt. April 9th jungle food and 0.2% salt. April 10th jungle food and 0.3% salt. April 11th jungle food and 0.3% salt.

Came home 2day to find him pineconed. Did a complete wc to remove water w/ salt, then added fresh decholorinated and temp matched water with 1/4 tsp of epsom salt per 10 gal.

Last night he seemed so improved and now it's terrible. He's so swollen and is gasping constantly. what do I do??

I NEED 2 order med food asap. but I'm unsure if it should be the medi-gold or mm's. I also need 2 know about getting metronidazole from my vet.

I CAN'T loose this fish, please kokonuts help me. I am so devastated right now and feel completely useless and utterly helpless. please please please :cry1

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and he is NOT eating the medicated food today.

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ordering metro-med's b/c I think that's what is always recommended 4 dropsy and I want this stuff 2 arrive quickly

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Your doing it right so far hun.....

as for the "metronidazole" I never used it but I have use Baytril from the vets, you know how to give a shot to a fish hun?

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Koko!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bighug:heart:bighug

I've never given a shot 2 a fish, or ne thing 4 that matter. I remember reading a post a while ago about it but I'd really love your advice.

My vet is a dog and cat vet but my family has known him for over 30 years so if he has it or can order it he will get it for us. Should I ask him??

edit

He's trying to eat now!! Only problem is the jungle food floats, and his regular food (sakari hikari) sinks so he's been having difficulties getting it. But I know he eventually eats it, or has the past few days b/c I clean up lots of nice looking poos.

Edited by Martha

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Hi Martha, I'm so sorry your fish is sick. I just wanted to pop in and say that I've gotten that Jungle food to sink by soaking it for a few seconds, then crushing it a bit with the back of a spoon. Mine are all used to sinking food too.

I'll be sending good thoughts your way for a speedy recovery.

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I think you want metro meds for this. I'm not certain but I belive that the Jungle Anti Parasite has metro in it. And get the heat up and add epsom salt (I believe the dosage is 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons, but you will want to double check that). And if you soak it long enough even that floating food will sink. Fingers crossed for you!

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@Koko, what kind of dosage for the baytril?

@cometgirl, thanks 4 the tip! but he's unable to swallow the food. :( he'll get a piece and then spit it out.

@amynmitchell, get the heat up to what? I'm already @ 80... and I've got 1/4 tsp per 10 gal in there but if needed I will raise that

Edited by Martha

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heartpump.gif Oh Martha! Nice to see you again I've missed you! Just wish it was under nicer circumstances.

Lulu had a bad case of dropsy just over two weeks ago! but she's better now thankfully. We're sending our best good luck toughts your way! heartpump.gif

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Oh Martha, I am so sorry to hear this. Your brand new beautiful fish.

If he is not eating and still has good balance injections in my opinion would be best. However if he is off balance at all, injections may not work.

Have you got half the tank covered so he has shade, is the temp stable at 80? Do you have massive aeration going? All these things DESTRESS and can bring dropsy effect down.

Take out any regular salt and keep with the epsom recommended.

Sometimes this can be enough. How long is it since you noticed the rough scales?

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April so glad to hear Lulu is ok!! :heart I've missed you too!

Imo,

I'm a bit confused about this epsom dosage... I'm at 1/4 tsp per 10 gals, do I need to add more to make it 1/4 tsp per 5 gals?

And about his balance...well he's not floaty, but a bit wobbly. Pics are @ this link (click here) and the password is kokosgfworld. I will upload a short vid soon to that same page if firefox will quit crashing on me! >.<

Also, what dosage do I ask for with the baytril? and if I cannot get that, do I ask for the metro?? the mm's should come in the mail by Wednesday. Howard WANTS to eat but every time he tries it comes back out. I also can't see his gills. I've actually never been able to get a good look, but now he is so swollen/bloated that I don't even know if he can move the flaps...if that makes sense.

Oh, and the water temp is at 80, I have an independent thermometer from the heater that I've been checking.

You'll also see in the photos the extra bubbler I've added for him...does it look like enough oxygen??

I just don't know how he went to much improved last night to this sad sad state today. :cry1

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Aw hun :(. He does look very swollen. I cant make out dropsy (lifting up of the scales) but that may be my eyes.

Martha, have you seen any poop today or yesterday and if so what was it like?

The Baytril dosage is written out in "Fancy Goldfish" if you have that Johnson/Hess book, p 67.

How many inches is your baby? The dosage is measured by size of fish.

PS (I have been having Moxilla crash on me all the timeteh last few days too!!)

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the scales are only slightly lifted now, which I think is b/c of the epsom I added right away (minus the old salty water of course). I just took those pics this evening after the scales went down, I kind of panicked and did not take any photos of the pineconing when I first got home today b/c I wanted to do a wc, remove the salt, and add in the epsom.

I unfortunately and hate to say but I do not have that book. Howard is 3 inches, almost exactly. Do I need to know if he's like 3 and 3/4?? or is 3 inches good enough? I last measured him in February.

He's been having really great poos since the jungle food started! I even stopped seeing the clear casings the last two days. tonight though he only had a very short and small poo, not very thick; I think because he's been unable to swallow any of the jungle food.

what do you think of the video and his constant opening and closing of the mouth?

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ooh and also I took those pics w/ my camera phone, but even if I used my camera I fear they'd still be blurry. If they had better clarity I'm sure it would help you out more, so don't worry your eyes are fine!!

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The mouth opening and closing is definitely gill related.

That can mean flukes or parasites are attached to the gills and stopping vital gases enetering and being expelled (which would totally explain why he has been lopsided and slightly floaty)....but blocked gills can also be attributed to nitrite poisoning or bacteria or lack of oxygen.It can also and very commonly be caused by OVER medication. Some meds damage gills permanently. Its a case of elimination always.

I am curious about if your fish was ever treated for flukes and exactly what meds and treatment he has ever had. If it was me I would be onto the seller with request for his medical history. Each seller has different rules on that.

I think shipping stress is HUGE. It is vital he is destressed (cover half tank). Those major 100% w/cs if you possibly could I would do 3 times a day just 30% each time. Try not to let him be uncovered or out of water at any point (MAJOR stress in fish).

IMO he can heal. Epsom is magic. Replace what you took out with each change (just as you would reg salt).

Your aeration looks FAB! :heart

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just waiting on Ken to reply to my email asking about any previous flukes treatment and maybe he will include if there was any other kind of treatment (if not I'll certainly ask).

no prob on doing the wc in 3 parts. but I have to admit that I do take him out when doing the wc so I've just added to his stress. :( and can't 4get my HUGE IDIOTIC move w/ the pp. his poor gills!!

I've not used any kind of chemicals on him, the only things he's been exposed to is Nov Aqua +, Prime, aquarium salt, and epsom salt.

I so hope he will pull through. I'm just so beaten down from loosing Gabriel that I'm having a hard time being of positive mind so thank you for doing that for me. :hug

I'm going to call it a night for now, but I'm assuming we are waiting on the baytril?

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man I'm so out of it right now, I need to obviously add pp to the list of chemicals he's been exposed to, sorry 'bout that. :doh11:

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Please try and stay positive hun. It is important you are calm for him and can make the best decisions. You can do this. You have always done your best and this is not going to be any different. We just do our best.

Dont worry on the PP. It was just a quick dip, I am sure it was not a biggie here.

Will wait on hearing Kens reply for farther advice here. Meanwhile, get some rest and make sure his conditions are stable for the night

If injections are the next step, he must be de stressed first. You too!!!! :hug

I'm going to call it a night for now, but I'm assuming we are waiting on the baytril?

Posting directions for Baytril in a separate post now.

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It looks like you are in the all knowing hands of the fish goddess, Imo. Sending positive thoughts your way.

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Thanks for the vote of confidence Amy!!

Martha....Baytril...as koko recommended ..go for it if your fish has stopped eating for 2 days and is still upright (not upside down or on one side completely).

3 inches to 4 inches fish : Dose: 0.1 milliliter of Baytril. Inject intraperitoneally (vet will know).

ONE dose each day for THREE days. Then three-every-other-days dose same.

So:

Day 1. 0.1 ml

Day 2 o.1 ml

Day 3 0.1 ml

Day 4 nothing

Day 5 0.1 ml

Day 6 nothing

Day 7 0.1ml

Day 8 nothing

Day 9 0.1 ml

FINISH.

Baytril is an amazing drug and has a good rep as a very broadrange antibiotic. The ONLY warning is not to give it to fish that are upside down indicating renal failure coupled with total lethargy/high stress.

A fish that has reasonable balance, good water and destressors prior to injecting can heal miraculously on Baytril injections :exactly. Baytril is a common antibiotic your vet is sure to have.

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Thank you Trinket...

You can do this hun... If Dede can fight it for three years hun so can your fish WHOOT positive thoughts hun

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3 YEARS?! :wacko: Holy cow I had to re-read that just to make sure that's what it said!! omg Koko that must have been so rough on you!! :bighug

He was about the same yesterday. Still bloated, and scales still lifted up a little. He is not full on pineconed but it's definitely apparent. He did eat a little b/c I found a tiny poo. finding poo makes me happy, LOL! only true Kokonuts would understand why!! =P

Also called the vet last night so he said he'd give us a call 2day about the baytril. however, I don't think he's going to do the injections...

and this is what Ken said about Howard:

All fish are given prophylactic treatments for flukes, as well body and

skin scrapes to diagnose any potential for flukes and other parasites

and protozoans.

Edited by Martha

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if the vet wont do the injection, what about a vet nurse? do you have those there? My friend is a vet nurse and told me she'd do injections for lulu if my dropsy meds didnt work. so if you know a vet nurse I'd ask them. and wow, 3 yrs! Thats a long time :-S

I always look for poos when I have a sick fish. I'm still watching Lulu's poos lol! crazy people. Good luck martha :heart

Edited by lirpa1

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Yeah she was a fighter and I promised Dede that she wouldnt Die from Dropsy's which she didnt.... Since you dont have the book hun, I tried to look up the information on how to inject for you... Its not really hard but it feels so strange the first time hun, so if you do take a deep breath before you start... Heres a pic and some information on how to inject hun :)

To properly inject: IP injections are in inserted midway between the vent and the ventral fins either side of an imaginary line between them. The needle should be inserted-not stabbed-at about a 10 degree angle pointing toward the head. Slowly inject by pressing the plunger. Keep finger pressure on the injection site while removing the needle. This is primarily to stop accidental scale removal. However if one does come off it usually will grow back.

http://www.koivalley.com/sitebuilder/images/locate-460x299.jpg

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42809

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wowza...alrighty I think I can do it. Thanks Koko you rock!! but...should Howard be out of the water like the picture shows the koi is?

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