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daryl

Last Summer's Fry

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I had a batch of fry from my Ryukin late last summer. I have been gone for a few months, during which time they were basically tossed into a large vat for growout at a friend's house. I have now gotten them all home, sorted, culled and into a warmer tank for faster growout.

REalize that I am, perhaps, one of the worst fish photographers on the face of the planet. I will never understand how people can get pictures of tiny little speckies when I cannot even properly photograph a 9 incher!!!!

Here are fry that are about 6-7 months old, I think. The majority are about 1 inch - some are less and a few are more. I have an assortment of calicos (most likely will become red/white, though, for there is not enough black on them to remain, I fear) and a whole bunch of greens. A couple of the greens seem to hold promise that they may emulate their mother - a nice blue/red/white fish.

For what the pictures are worth, perhaps you can see something. I am sorry I am sooooooooo bad at picture taking. I keep telling them to hold still but they just do not listen.

Now that the fry are warmer, they may start to grow faster. Being <45F with no food is not particularly condusive to quick growth!

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Firstly can I sympathise about the photography skills,I'm exactly the same lol!

The fry look really nice though,and the fact they have been in cold conditions for several months certainly doesn't seem to have harmed them,they are chunky and well shaped.Hope mine look like that in a few months :) Any pics of mom and dad?

Can I just ask,do you own the fish on your avatar,that's a stunner.

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Nice! They look like they are going to grow into some real looker especially that first fish. I am always amazed that those little wispy fry things grow into big ol honkin' goldfish down the road.

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WOW, they look great! Glad to see there progress.

Your pictures don't look that bad, I think they they came out fine.

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The Ryukin in my avatar was my "Sterling". He was a National Show grandchampion in 2005. He, unfortunately is no longer with me. He was very old - and finally gave up in the breeding vat a little over a year ago. I do have 4 generations of his offspring, however. None, unfortunately, have lived up to his quality.

The parents are a Broadtail tri-colored Female. (First photo). The Blue that was with her was also a female and not used in this cross.

The male was Vincent - a Red/white Broadtail from Sterling's line.

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Thought you might get a kick out of a fry photo....... fry about your fry's age....

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How fun! Baby fish! Keep those pics coming-no matter how bad you think they are! Very cool!

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Crikey they are way more developed than mine,and I thought I was doing well :)

Mine are 2 weeks old now and eating new hatched brine shrimp,micro and banana worm, frozen cyclopeeze and I'm just introducing other frozen foods like oyster eggs,rotifers etc.all small enough for fry mouths.

Anything else you can think of?

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I think you are doing GREAT!!!!! It is not easy to satisfy the voracious appetites of the little speckies!!! YOu are giving yours a much better varied diet than I ever have the ability to do.... yours are GREAT. Do not doubt yourself.

I feed freshly hatched baby brine shrimp every 4 hours for the first month or so.... then branch out to daphnia, microworms and various rotifers. I do like keeping the baby brine shrimp in the diet as long as possible - and I continue to hatch and gel them for fry feeding for a long time. They give such wonderous color to the reds and the fry will eat them no matter what. The daphnia is not as accepted as the shrimp-candy is!

I also keep fry in 1000 gallon ponds that have continuous water exchange - there is never any ammonia, nitrite OR nitrate to deal with, and the growth inhibitor hormone they excrete is continuously removed so as to not affect any. This reduces, if not eliminates, the advantage that the "hogs" have over the "runts". I have found that often a well-conformed "runt" will outshoot the quality of a "hog" in time - if given the clean water to do so.

You also see that I have loads of "pinkies" in the first fry photo. Those are removed freeing the water for the more desireable fry. I have actually found a store that will take my "pinkies" and grow them out for sale!

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Are 'pinkies' matt fish?

I thought perhaps they were calico but as you say they are not desirable I'm assuming they're not.

I have a few black eyed fry,so I'm assuming they may become pinkies,although they're too small to tell yet.

I have been told though that some matt fish are useful to keep as breeders because if they are mated to a metallic you get 100% calico,which is interesting.

I have a matt bubble eye that I am hoping to use one day to test the theory :D

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Wow your fry have very developed humps for such tiny fishies Daryl! Most ryukins I've seen at 1 inch long have been hard to tell apart from fantails, but they are in shops so probably early culls which are there specifically for not being 'humpy'.

I would also like to know what the disadvantages of a 'pinkie' are!

Don't doubt your speckie care Jane, they're doing great apart from one tiny little thing - not enough photographs!!!

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yup - I call the matt fish "pinkies". They are the fish that never develop any color - and have large solid black eyes.

I have kept a few over the years - and one did grow out to be a spectacular matt white broadtail. It was a nice fish. I have never bred one back into the line however.

I get calicos in every spawn - but I have crossed STerling and his calico offspring back into the line multiple times to fix the broadtail - and I LOVE calicos. Calicos will decolor at a VERY young age - only a couple of months in my line. The next ones that show color are the reds and finally, bringing up the rear are the blues. A blue will often stay "green" with a smokey overtone for at least the first year of it's life. My Blue Phoenix stay green for up to 2 years before they show the nice blue I want.

I would be interested in knowing if the matt fish are worth keeping in a line. I do know some people in the WEstern world enjoy white fish - and some actually seek the matt whites that have a pink pearl sheen. They are nice. I just happen love the predominantly black calico, blood red or blue fish. JMO

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It's all about genetics

Metallics are MM

Matts are mm

Calico are Mm

Therefore if you cross an MM with a mm you get 100% Mm fry ie all calico.

That is a very simpified version,which is the only one I understand :)

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OO! Daryl they look great! None seem to be presenting the goshiki, though? That is a shame....but still!

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No - no demonstration of goshiki, however that coloration is mostly recessive (with the proper modifiers creating pattern). With a next generation recross, I hope to bring in the tri-color of the goshiki and one more generation may bring the netted scale pattern. If I can use the mother back again for some, I may reduce that to one generation with some luck.

Keep your fingers crossed. I only have about 16 that appear to have the body/tail conformation that I would want back into the line. Time will tell. Breeding fish is an exersise in patience.

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I will cross both fingers and toes for you! :rofl

O! I wanted to tell you...I have started studying goldfish genetics! There is a great book at the library here at school called "Goldfish Genetics: A Handbook for Breeders"....It's intense stuff, but I am wading my way through it. I am also in Human Genetics this semester so hopefully it will help my understanding. It's my goal to tell you something one day and you just go "Wow! How did you know that?!" :D

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They are soo cute!

I don't know anything about genetics, I just keep the fry that looks good! And my "pink" fry always turns out calico colored.

But I have commons/comets!

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I just love all the little humps appearing. How fun to see them all grow. And I cant wait to see the colors. I miss waking up to tanks of fry :heart

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I will cross both fingers and toes for you! rofl3.gif

O! I wanted to tell you...I have started studying goldfish genetics! There is a great book at the library here at school called "Goldfish Genetics: A Handbook for Breeders"....It's intense stuff, but I am wading my way through it. I am also in Human Genetics this semester so hopefully it will help my understanding. It's my goal to tell you something one day and you just go "Wow! How did you know that?!" biggrin.gif

I suffer memory gap sometimes.rolleyes.gif Is this book by Joseph Smartt, Sarah?

Impressive breeding skills you have demonstrated so far, Carol.exactly.gif I had always adored your avatar featuring Sterling. Makes me wish I could have seen him alive in the flesh. I'm so sorry to hear you lost him.

Some of your ryukins are so perfect replicas of the impressive looking Sterling.

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I think that must be the Smart book. It is a good one - definately one of the very best, but was written a fair time ago. There is much that he freely admits not knowing. There are few people in the world actually reseraching goldfish genetics... but there are a few. Any actual insights are happily accepted and added to the general knowledge. It is VERY difficult to come to any absolutes in goldfish genetics for there are not truly any lines that are long enough or documented enough with which to draw definitive conclusions. Goldfish are SOOOOOOO complicated.

So sad, but I am guilty, too. I enjoy finding a new fish that counters a flaw I have in a line and using it - regardless of it's unknown genetic lineage.... I simply cannot keep enough fish to keep a line pure.

Oh, well.

SArah - I will be asking you for advice before long! You always have been a good study. Your new knowledge will be picked clean!!!!

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MrsMohr, you should reserve a space for one of Daryl's ryukins.lol No orandas, Daryl? Would love to see some if you breed them too.heartpump.gif

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No..... there is only so much room in my house and life for different breeds. I am a fan of finnage - always have been. And, when it comes down to it, Ryukins have always been my first love.

I have Phoenix (some blue) - none of which is doing well - and have not bred for 2 years now.

TVR - two different lines. The Mita bred nicely. I am still waiting for the others to do so - there was some difficulty getting the sets I got to live, much less breed. The pair I have now is healthy and I have hopes. It is not nearly the quality of the 4 I originally paid an arm and a leg for, but, with some work they may do ok.

Bristol Shubunkins - I have only two females. They are from a line that never seems to get big and the tails collapse at a fairly young age. I was hoping to pick up males with better tail longevity, but no luck so far.

A single "classic" SVR - a really great guy but not going to be bred.

10 blue and black&white BubbleEye. They, too, have not bred in 2 years. I am hoping for this season.

The rest are all Ryukin - BT, ST and Standard.

I had Oranda a number of years ago. They have been "transformed" in the past 2 years - and I actually like the new body conformation better than before. Some have taken it to extremes - as always seems to be the case in new confo. Crossing into Ryukin lines by some to get that compact square body.

I have been out of the country for nearly 3 months and my fish were scattered to the winds. I am just now beginning to collect them back and ascess what, exactly, I have.

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they r gorgious

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