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RHankinsJr

Moose Spotty Tail Now....

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0ppm

[*]Nitrite Level? 0ppm

[*]Nitrate level? <10ppm

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.8

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?fluctuates... I have to use proper ph to buff our water because it loses ph quickly

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? api drops

[*]Water temperature? 72-74

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55gal and for about 2 years now

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? 2 emporer 400s

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? every week atleast 60% with 100% change every other month

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? One 8.5 inch ranchu

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Just prime

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Pro gold... 4-5 pellets twice a day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? none

[*]Any medications added to the tank? I have recently treated him with binox for a problem he has been having with his lips ( see my last thread from a while back )

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? has these white spots on his tail and it looks like they might be appearing on his body as well. Not ich though, cottony looking.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He has been eating the22 out of bubbles ( and just plain air ) lately to the point where he will float for hours and pass them as gas out of his rear end as well as belch them up from time to time.

See attached picture(s).

(( original thread for last problem which he also still has is here => http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...&pid=800927 ))

Moose_Tail.jpg

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So you have treated him for the columnaris type infection which this also could be a remainder of...OR it could be caused by parasites. Have you ever treated this fish with 0.3% salt???.... the hanging at the top..lethargy...hard to rule out pH problems aggravating here though.

Have you seen any sudden flashing or bottom sitting? Is he eating well?

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Trinket is right that it may be a leftover from the columnaris infection, but I swear it looks like ich from the picture. Although the "cottony" look may not be coming across well.

I'd go for the 0.3% salt.

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:bingo: I am with Vicki and Trinket

Try the salt, it is a great way to help your fish!

Hang in there! ;)

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update:

third round going in soon.

However on the bottom of moose's tail it did look like ich. The stuff on the bottom appears to have gotten better though. The cotton stuff on the tail appears to be getting worse ( larger and whiter ). The top part was huge white cotton spots the largest was about the size of 3 progold pellets. the small ones you see on the tail were about the size of the diameter of rice crispies \ BBs.

Anyway, thats just the update.

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I'd stick with the salt for now. Can you get pics of the fuzzy white stuff?

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Still learning here but just wanted to say I hope Moose gets better and good luck.

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Well now with the salt in he is just bottom sitting and breating very hard.

The bottom of his belly is now bloody. I couldn't get a good shot of it since he is bottom sitting, but you can see the start of it in the attached picture of the reflection under him.

Misc_Moose_ReflectionBloodyBelly.jpg

Also, I tried to get a better picture of the large ( rice crispy size cotton formations on his tail ) still not good... I guess I need a better camera

Misc_Moose_CottonOnTail.jpg

Remember when looking at the picture he is a huge fish ( 8.5 inches )

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Bloody? No apparant scratching/scrape bloody? And the spots are getting worse?

How much salt do you have in there now?

I know you have had your fish for a while. Any chance you can take readings again and post? Do you just use the buffer to hold your ph or crushed coral also?

Hang in the Jr and hang in there Moose!!!! I will be back! :hug

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There is crushed coral in the filter. I use proper pH to get the ph up before I put it in the tank since I have been doing such large water changes since his mouth problem.

He does not appear to be scraping on anything, although all that is in his tank at this point is a hand full of large smooth rocks.

It doesn't really look like scrapes, for lack of a better description it looks like a hickey ( or however you spell that ) but it continues down his bottom fins.

He is at 0.3% salt now.

I tested the water and the parameters have not changed much of any from above. The only thing that is different is that now I am closer to 10ppm nitrate than I was before. So I will have to do a water change \ salt replace tonight.

The spots are no better and are no worse now that I really examine the pics from yesterday and the one that I first posted.

My wife is scared and would like to know what some of the symptoms are if there is too much salt in the water. I made sure and followed the directions to a T but she wants me to ask anyway.

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I have pm'd Trinket and I'm sure she'll be here as soon as time permits. She's on a different time zone but I'm sure she will drop in and advise you. :)

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The symptoms of oversalting are : gasping at the surface, spinning or bottom sitting. Do you think you are in danger of oversalting? Are you writing down on a paper beside the tank exactly how much is going in/going out? This can really help you keep track of the dosage a sits so easy to get muddled with that.

I am worried about his water. He should be getting better not worse in salt. Can you check your ammonia and nitrite and nitrate levels again, just so we have an recent baseline on those..and can you also rinse filter media and check there is no area of the tank where an ornament or gravel has been sitting without having been lifted or moved in the last week? One last thing- have you got plenty of bubbles hitting the water surface to help him with stress?

Otherwise with a red belly (systemic infection) you are going to need to some medicated food to get in there and tackle the infection inside. Is he still eating well and how easily and quickly can you get hold of some med food?

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I have medi gold here that I just got a couple months ago when I restocked on progold.

I have been keeping a very accurate account of the salt going in.

The water is still 0ammonia, 0 nitrite, <10ppm nitrate, 7.8ph buffered.

There is nothing in his tank right now other than a hand full of rocks. The water is just under the level of the 2 emporers and they are turning up the water pretty good. We had taken out the bubble bars since he would just sit his big butt on them and suck bubbles sometimes.

Even with the salt in I have been maintaining 50% water changes daily with a full vacuuming. His mouth spots and his tail spots are still exactly the same as they were before I did the binox, and before I did the salt.

I rinse the filters every time I do a water change.

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Very strange! Have you tried to HP the spots without getting any in his eyes or gills?

Trinket will be back, Japan and US a little different time zones. :)

Have you treated with Medigold before. If so for how long and when was that?

Can you think of anything, anything at all that was different when this started?

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I would start him on the Medigold. It's unopened right? That particular combo of antibiotics doesn't keep well after opening.

Every thing else sound good with his environment. It can take a long time for these miscellaneous type infections to clear. The main thing is to keep his water good and stress levels down while he gets the full course of MGold into his system. He's a big fish you say, so feed plenty of it.

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Sorry it has taken me a while to reply.

Moose's lips are almost perfectly clear now. The spot(s) on his body are going away. His underbelly is almost cleared up.

But he isn't eating and he seems to have troubles swimming and gaining altitude without really really working hard for it. However he can maintain balance still.

He spends all of his time sitting on the bottom now and when he does swim he either keeps his belly on the ground or he has to work so hard to move you think his head is going to explode.

Salt is still in and water changes are still rolling and water params are still testing out properly 0am, 0ni, <10ppm na, 7.8~ph

I have had to clean his tank daily since his food just sits and goes to waste. I am using the fresh medi-gold though,

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So he is not really getting much Medigold into his system?

Has he eaten anything else? Medigold should be fed alone to get enough antibiotics in.

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that is correct. He has only gotten one maybe two in him before they turn to mush. Sometimes after they turn to mush he will waddle thru them and eat some so I try not to pull them out immediately after they turn to mush.

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I see. I wonder if you could hand feed?

The salt is obviously helping somewhat and you should keep up with that I think.

Can you see if his belly still looks red and any chance of showing us a pic or even better a video :unsure:

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RHankinsJr, how are things now? Any improvements on the poor fellow? :)

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Update: The spots on his lips have went away. He has been thru a full dose of medigold. Now his body is covered with white patches ( NOT ICH ) similar to those which I originally reported. I am trying to get a clear shot of them to post.

Salt is still in the tank at the right dose. Have moved up to 90.9% ( 50gals out of the 55 ) water changes every other day. Everything but maybe 2 handfulls of rock have been removed.

ammo = 0

nitrite = 0

nitrate = <5ppm

ph = 7.8 ( buffered )

He is still a bottom stitter and does not swim, he does maintain balance though. No more sores on his body. He'll swim in short but quick bursts to get from point a to point b, kinda like he has forgotten how to swim.

Going to try and get more pics of him now.

First question ( other than what to do to get him better ) do I stop medi-gold now or do I keep on keeping on?

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Finally...it only took me 4 re-reads! Ugh you took the bubble wands out??? He needs a lot more oxygen. Bubble wands are good. If you don't have them anymore, lower your water level just below the filter to create a splash, which will produce oxygen, :)

Truly I would suggest an APR drop kit tester. It is so much more accurate......Geesh I wish I would have caught this sooner. I think you deserve a prize! :heart

Hang in there and please post back! IF you cant' get a drop test, please take it to the LFS and get precise readings...no "it is fine" the numbers please. :)

50-80% water changes weekly! At minimum!!!!

Ugh I feel LIKE I have let you down for just catching this now!!!!!!!!!!!! :wall

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All of the fish stores in my area only have the API drop kits that I use. I'll see if I can find a APR one at one of the smaller places. Only times I do the jungle strips is when I want my daughter to feel like she is able to help. I never use them for the results that I give on the board other than kH&gH early on. The APR kit is more accurate than the API kit?

Their numbers will be the same as mine, they use the same API drop kits that I use to check my stuff at home. And I use two different kits to ensure that my reagents aren't going bad. I'll run some up there tomorrow after work, closest fish store is over an hour away from me.

I'll put a bubble bar back in, the two emporers make pretty good spashing as it is and put tons of bubbles into the mix, but I'll add more if needed. The wands were removed to keep him from sitting upside down in the tank from eating bubbles all day long.

Still trying to get more clear pics up.

p.s. when I google apr test strips it asks me if I mean API. Is that what you meant? If so, thats what I use as stated in the OP & signature.

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Also, you suggest 50-80% water changes weekly. In two weeks with one ranchu in a 55g tank I have yet came to anywhere near 10ppm nitrate and everything else stays stable. What does the water change take out that can't be seen in the tests? Just curious.

As of the time this issue started I am doing 50% every other day, which in the past 7 days I have bumped up to 90 with hard core cleaning performed every other water change ( 4 days ).

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Sorry I am a bad typer! API :heart

I think I have lost my mind! :wacko:

I was reading your signature......if that helps to make sense!

Re-introduce the bubble wands! The more oxygen the better! :)

My fish love the bubbles, they ride them....like a roller coaster! However, if in need of oxygen for (whatever reason) if it happens to be a bad day, they sit on them and suck up the O2 which can only help.

Sorry for being a bad typing slug!!!

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