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Guest Corrie

Sinking Pellet That Does Not Fall Apart Or Cloud The Water

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I'll look into the Dainichi and let you know.

I'm going to try their Cichlid Food - Veggie Delux.

Not as low in protein as I was looking for but better than anything else I've found, and it's low in fiber.

I am interested to know why you are seeking a low-protein food -- is it because of nitrates?

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Guest Corrie

In a round about way, yes.

It's stupid to feed a fish higher protein than they can use, they will just pass it out.

Then you are only feeding aerobic bacteria, that also breathe, eat, and poop. That are also living things in the system that the system has to support. That place a higher demand on oxygen, and consume carbon placing a higher demand on your buffer and reducing your alk and lowering your pH. Not to mention putting a higher demand on your filtration.

This is not a 10gal tank that I can mix a 5gal bucket of water and do a 50% water change. A 50% water change will only reduce nitrates 50%.

This is a 500gal tank.

A 50% water change is 250gal.

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How many shubunkins do you intend to house in your tank?

At least with a fresh water set-up your water changes will be less complicated. I am just starting out with a small FOWLR salt water set-up and am finding that it is a lot more hassle to make water changes when you have to mix up salt in the replacement water. With my 75 gallon goldfish tank it is easy to make 50-75% water changes using a hose directly from the tap with Prime added to the tank. But 250 gallon 50% water changes would start being reflected in your water bill pretty quick.

It will be interesting to see how shubunkins compare with other fish that you have kept as far as their waste output is concerned.

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Guest Corrie

I plan on having 5-6, 6-8" fish this spring, and 5-6, 10-12" fish next year.

Do not skimp on a good skimmer. Because of proteins ability to foam in salt water, a good skimmer will take all of that out for you.

Our water changes will be about the same. I will condition the water, buffer and adjust pH, ahead of time and pump it into the tank slowly.

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Guest Corrie
It will be interesting to see how shubunkins compare with other fish that you have kept as far as their waste output is concerned.

It's going to be even more interesting when you see how little goldfish eat, poop and pee, compared to saltwater fish.

Saltwater fish have much higher metabolisms, drink a whole lot more water to maintain their internal equilibrium.

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It will be interesting to see how shubunkins compare with other fish that you have kept as far as their waste output is concerned.

It's going to be even more interesting when you see how little goldfish eat, poop and pee, compared to saltwater fish.

Saltwater fish have much higher metabolisms, drink a whole lot more water to maintain their internal equilibrium.

Huh... that sure hasn't been my experience.

I have kept equal numbers of goldfish and saltwater fish in exactly the same size tank with exactly the same size filter. I find that the goldfish require much more frequent water changes in order to keep the water parameters acceptable.

Every "fish person" I have spoken to (including people who set up and maintain tanks for a living, as well as a marine biologist at the local university) agrees that goldfish produce more waste than other fish.

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Guest Corrie

Can't be like for like punk.

Not many people keep live rock and live sand in goldfish tanks or use skimmers, and most marine fish food is a much higher quality than goldfish food.

Chemolithic autotrophs, nitrifying bacteria, are magnitudes more efficient in saltwater too. That one thing alone will keep it from being like for like. Nitrogen reduction, nitrate, is magnitudes more efficient in saltwater and most people specifically set up their saltwater tanks to do that.

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I have no experience, personally, with saltwater, but those I talk with also say that goldies top them all for waste production.

I have had far better luck with my Bristols when feeding high protien. I get bigger fish, the tails do not fall as so many are wont to do, and I win shows with them. My youngsters/fry are on a high protien diet of bloodworms, brine shrimp, spiriliana and other goodies. They are powerful, large and beautiful. At only 10 months of age, they are 3-4 inches long (including that gorgeous "B" tail standing strong). The Shubies get as high protien as the Mita do.... and are doing excellently on it.

:)

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Guest Corrie

Well ding-a-ling ;-) why don't you sell me some! You know I'm going to take great care of them and you know they are going to have a great place to live.

And you know, if anything happens, you can have them back if you need them.

I'm not looking for a low protein food to feed them, exclusively. Like I said, I'm just looking for a food that I can give them when I run in the door from work, so I don't feel guilty while they stare at me the rest of the evening. And a food that won't totally crap out the tank, so the family can eat dinner and watch them without seeing a tank full of crap. LOL

After dinner, I'll have time to really spoil them with all kinds of different foods and gels.

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It will be interesting to see how shubunkins compare with other fish that you have kept as far as their waste output is concerned.

It's going to be even more interesting when you see how little goldfish eat, poop and pee, compared to saltwater fish.

Saltwater fish have much higher metabolisms, drink a whole lot more water to maintain their internal equilibrium.

Huh... that sure hasn't been my experience.

I have kept equal numbers of goldfish and saltwater fish in exactly the same size tank with exactly the same size filter. I find that the goldfish require much more frequent water changes in order to keep the water parameters acceptable.

Every "fish person" I have spoken to (including people who set up and maintain tanks for a living, as well as a marine biologist at the local university) agrees that goldfish produce more waste than other fish.

I have both and I can tell you that goldfish are much harder than saltwater tanks. My salt water tank is a coral and fish tank and heck of alot easier to take care of than my goldfish tank.

But the thing is goldfish dont have a true stomach like other fish, so if you feed them a big meal no matter if its low protein or high it comes out the other end fast. Small meals and big water changes are the key to healthy fish :D

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I am just working with a small set of Shubies. I finally got a line that is supposed to hold their tails to adulthood.... and need the ones I have for starting my own line. When I get it going, I expect I shall have extras, but, at this time, am really counting on each and every fish I have.

Sorry.....

:unsure:

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Guest Corrie

daryl, I understand completely. For years I was doing the same thing with clownfish, Nemos.

koko, set you goldfish tank up the same way you have your reef tank set up. Or, set your reef tank up the same way you have your goldfish tank.

Of course reef tanks are easier.

Chemolithic autotrophs, nitrifying bacteria, are magnitudes more efficient in saltwater too. That one thing alone will keep it from being like for like. Nitrogen reduction, nitrate, is magnitudes more efficient in saltwater and most people specifically set up their saltwater tanks to do that.

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Guest Spanky_
I just asked a simple question, does any one know of a pellet that does not mush out?

I just asked a simple question.

When I did not get an answer, when people did not read what I wrote, when people read too much into what I wrote....

.....I took the time to explain even more.

It's a simple question.

It's a very simple question.

Here is a very simple answer. Try this...... TetraFin Gold Japan.

tetrafin_gold_japan.gif

P.S. you do come across as cantankerous.

:rolleyes:

Edited by Spanky_

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LOL I guess having to explain something over and over can make you look that way.

Spanky, is that available in the US? the Japan part makes it look like it might not be \

EDIT: I don't think it is. I goggled it and could only find it in the UK.

Edited by Corrie

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Well that would be alittle strange :o

My saltwater tank has a Skimmer and 2 power heads. I know that goldfish dont need skimmers and the power heads would blow my goldfish all over the place. Also it needs more light than the goldfish.

Now my goldfish tank has 3 massive filters on it and the saltwater doesnt need that much and a UV system. So a long story short you cant treat them the same.

Hands down Goldfish are the hardest fish to take care of, and need more special care :D

"done" :D

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Guest Corrie

I said "reef tanks are easier"

You're running a "protein" skimmer - foam fractionator - to remove proteins - to reduce nitrogenous compounds and powerheads to get the waste to the skimmer.

You're promoting the growth of algae.

You're using live rock to process nitrogenous compounds and possibly a sand bed.

and, all of the bacteria you need - work a whole lot better in saltwater.

For the very reason that wet/dry filters went out of favor when people started keeping "reef tanks".

Wet/drys act just like the filters you have on the goldfish tank. They trap nitrogenous waste - in a high flow area - and cause it to break down faster and create even more and higher nitrates. Just like the filters you are using on the goldfish.

If there was some way to run a goldfish tank like a reef tank, it would be easier too. But the mechanics of fresh water are working against you.

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Guest Spanky_
LOL I guess having to explain something over and over can make you look that way.

Spanky, is that available in the US? the Japan part makes it look like it might not be \

EDIT: I don't think it is. I goggled it and could only find it in the UK.

Ahhh, it might not be available in the US. BUT...... (and i assure you this is a genuine offer) If you give me $5.00 (that will cover postage and the food itself) and an address I will send you a pot (all the way from the UK). It is good stuff, I use it.

Edited by Spanky_

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It will be interesting to see how shubunkins compare with other fish that you have kept as far as their waste output is concerned.

It's going to be even more interesting when you see how little goldfish eat, poop and pee, compared to saltwater fish.

Saltwater fish have much higher metabolisms, drink a whole lot more water to maintain their internal equilibrium.

Okay, I am really confused here.

It seems as if everyone (including you) is agreeing that salt water tanks are easier to maintain than goldfish tanks (due to live rock/sand, protein skimmers, increased efficiency of nitrifying bacteria in saltwater, etc.) Yet I read your message above as sort of saying "just you wait..." regarding the maintenance that will be required of my new saltwater set-up. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your statement above?

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LOL I guess having to explain something over and over can make you look that way.

Spanky, is that available in the US? the Japan part makes it look like it might not be \

EDIT: I don't think it is. I goggled it and could only find it in the UK.

Ahhh, it might not be available in the US. BUT...... (and i assure you this is a genuine offer) If you give me $5.00 (that will cover postage and the food itself) and an address I will send you a pot (all the way from the UK). It is good stuff, I use it.

Is this a flake or pellet food? Does it float or sink?

I would like to know more about it too (I am becoming a collector of goldfish foods as well as goldfish -- I must have at least eight different bottles/bags in my cabinet!) :P

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Guest Spanky_

It is sinking pellet.....

A new addition to the Gold range specially formulated for exotic and fancy goldfish.

TetraFin Gold Japan ? for excellent health and condition in fancy goldfish

  • Specifically formulated for fancy goldfish, such as Orandas, Lionheads, Black Moors, Ryukins, Fantails etc.

  • High content of premium quality vegetable ingredients and wheatgem to maintain excellent condition and reduce metabolic disorders.

  • Sinking sticks to reduce air-intake during feeding helping to avoid swimbladder related problems.

  • Rich in high quality proteins and colour-enhances for improved performance and colour

New high performance sinking pellets.

Extruded pellets for excellent digestion

High protein/oil content (hydrolysed proteins).

Rich in colours.

Edited by Spanky_

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Interesting -- it seems that Tetra has quite a line of goldfish foods in the UK. There is Gold Colour, Gold Growth, Gold Exotic, and Gold Japan. Is Tetra a British company, or do they just perceive that there are more people in the UK who are serious about goldfish? :idont

When buying fish food from a large company like Tetra, I always wonder how much time elapses between when the food is manufactured and when I buy it. With ProGold and Dainichi I have more confidence that the stuff is being made in small batches a few weeks before my purchase.

Have you seen positive results of this food with your fish?

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Guest Corrie
It will be interesting to see how shubunkins compare with other fish that you have kept as far as their waste output is concerned.

It's going to be even more interesting when you see how little goldfish eat, poop and pee, compared to saltwater fish.

Saltwater fish have much higher metabolisms, drink a whole lot more water to maintain their internal equilibrium.

I don't know whether to call you Acu, or punk. I don't like punk, so is Acu ok?

I was talking specifically about fish. Comparing saltwater 'fish' to gold'fish'.

Not comparing reef tanks to goldfish tanks, or different ways of filtering tanks.

You said you were setting up a 'fish only with live rock'. Right there, you are not setting up a typical goldfish tank and you are not setting up the same tank. You don't set up a goldfish tank with live rock for bacterial filtration and nitrogenous compound reduction.

To compare apples to apples, set up a saltwater fish tank, filtered the same way you have your goldfish.

Add an angel, tang, wrasse - whatever - same age and body mass as your goldfish.

Feed them the exact same food, the same amount.

Which tank do you think will have nitrates go through the roof and off the charts first?

You guys are forgetting the most important thing - osmoregulation.

Saltwater fish have to drink a lot of water to maintain their internal specific gravity - salinity.

Because of that they pee a whole lot more than fresh water fish.

Because of that, they expel a whole lot more amino acids, ammonia, nitrogenous compounds.

Ahhh, it might not be available in the US. BUT...... (and i assure you this is a genuine offer) If you give me $5.00 (that will cover postage and the food itself) and an address I will send you a pot (all the way from the UK). It is good stuff, I use it.

Spanky, thank you!

I have someone that sends me flubendazole from the UK now. If he can't send it, I'll take you up on that offer.

Thank you again!

Edited by Corrie

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Guest Spanky_
Interesting -- it seems that Tetra has quite a line of goldfish foods in the UK. There is Gold Colour, Gold Growth, Gold Exotic, and Gold Japan. Is Tetra a British company, or do they just perceive that there are more people in the UK who are serious about goldfish? :idont

Tetra is a part of Spectrum Brands (formerly Rayovac Corporation). They are a global consumer products company and a leading supplier of batteries, lawn and garden care products, specialty pet supplies, shaving and grooming products, household insecticides, personal care products and portable lighting. Through a diverse and growing portfolio of world-class brands, Spectrum Brands holds leading market positions in a number of major product categories. Spectrum Brands' products are sold by the world's top 25 retailers and are available in more than one million stores in 120 countries around the world. Headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, Spectrum Brands generates approximately $2.8 billion in annualized revenues and has approximately 10,000 employees worldwide. The company?s stock trades on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol SPC.

When buying fish food from a large company like Tetra, I always wonder how much time elapses between when the food is manufactured and when I buy it. With ProGold and Dainichi I have more confidence that the stuff is being made in small batches a few weeks before my purchase.

It's a good point. But then all the food you get from the supermarket........

Have you seen positive results of this food with your fish?

I have never had a problem with it, i do wonder if there is really any difference between the different types of tetra foods though, one for growth, one for colour, etc.... probably all the same :rolleyes:

P.S. i will send you a pot for $5 if you want?

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Guest Spanky_
Ahhh, it might not be available in the US. BUT...... (and i assure you this is a genuine offer) If you give me $5.00 (that will cover postage and the food itself) and an address I will send you a pot (all the way from the UK). It is good stuff, I use it.

Spanky, thank you!

I have someone that sends me flubendazole from the UK now. If he can't send it, I'll take you up on that offer.

Thank you again!

No problem at all. Just PM me about it, if and when, and we can sort out addresses and stuff.

:)

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I don't know whether to call you Acu, or punk. I don't like punk, so is Acu ok?

Kristen is fine. Acupunk is a reference to my profession -- I am an acupuncturist.

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