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silver8328

Fish Floating And Red Scales

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Ammonia Level? 0

Nitrite Level? 0

Nitrate level? 20

Ph Level, (If possible, KH and GH and chloramines)? ph= 7.0, gh=150

Ph Level out of the Tap? 7.0

Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?) Tetratest Laborett (drops)

[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 29, used to be a 20long but I upgraded and moved everything over a couple months ago

[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s? Penguin 350

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? I usually do it every week (50%) to 2 weeks (75%)

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 pearlscale (fish that is floating) and 1 calico telescope both around 2 inches

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

[*]Any medications added to the tank? Prazipro

[*]Add any new fish to the tank? none

[*]What do you feed your fish? Omega One sinking pellets

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as

"grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? none

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, ect. I noticed around 2 weeks ago she was hanging out at the top back corner of the tank but didn't think much of it other then it must be her new sleeping spot because whenever she saw me she swam fine. A week ago I noticed her in the same corner but she was floating on her side and when she saw me it looked like she was having a little difficulty righting herself. I came on here the day I noticed her on her side and read a little and saw people requesting Prazipro so I went out and got some and put it in that day. I fasted her as well for 3 days and fed peas. She still floated but was usually on her back and only occasionally on her side, when I started to feed the normal food again she was mostly on her side. When she swims she is fine it's only when she stops (I guess resting) that she floats. I noticed yesterday her scales are turning red and this morning they look even worse. I put a breeding trap in the tank that she sort of wedges herself next to, not like she is stuck but just enough that it keeps her upright and so she isn't exposed to the air. Here is a pic of her swimming just fine near the bottom of the tank this morning, DSCF1404-1.jpg

What it causing it? Is there anything else I should get? Maybe something for the redness?

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I'm no expert by any means, but the scales turning red sounds more like a bacterial infection than parasites. Prazi is used to treat for flukes, tiny parasites that attach themselves to the fish's body and gills, causing irritation, flashing behavior, bottom sitting, and "gasping" or "yawning" at the top of the water.

It doesn't look like just a simple color change. Until a moderator helps you figure out what is causing it and how to treat it, I suggest keeping your water ABSOLUTELY pristine. Do more frequent water changes. Often water condition is a major factor in fish disease. Test your water daily. Personally I would try to get the nitrates down below 10ppm-- some fish are sensitive to higher levels of nitrate.

Good luck.

Edited by thoughtsofjoy

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Thanks for replying. When I treated with the prazipro she didn't have any red on her yet, it was just because she was floating and all the threads I had read on here about a fish floating someone mentioned treating with prazipro in case of flukes. One of the first things I did when I noticed her floating was test the water for nitrates to see if they were high because she may be sensitive but they weren't any different then usual but I did do a water change anyway. I would really like to get my nitrates lower but they come out of the tap no lower then 10. I was thinking about getting plants to maybe help with that but all the ones I saw at the 2 stores I went to were covered in snails and I would really rather not add them to the tank. I have been trying to grow bulbs for the past couple months but they keep getting fungus on them. Do you think maybe that has something to do with the fishes problems? Since there is still some prazipro in the water I don't know what I can put in to treat her redness, if there is anything I can add while that's in there.

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It's quite possible that she has a case of swim bladder disease, perhaps caused by flukes. You said that she started floating on her side? I think the red scales may be due to exposure to the air. She floats to the water line and lies there on her side--- it causes ulcers. I noticed that the redness is on the widest part of her body, which is the most likely place for her to be exposed if she is floating severely. Biobandage is used to heal ulcers of this kind-- but wait for a mod before you treat. This is just my best guess.

Prazi is a very gentle med, one of the only ones recommended for prophylactic use. It should not be causing her any problems, IMO. Sometimes when treating for flukes, the fish gets worse before it gets better. Have you access to a microscope? A scrape and scope is pretty much the only way to be certain your fish is fluke-free. (Scoping for gill flukes, however, requires you to snip out a piece of gill... I'm too scared I'd kill the fish doing that, so I won't recommend THAT.)

I can't recommend any medications before Pixie or Trinket helps with a diagnosis. Normally I would suggest slowing bringing your tank to a 0.3% salt solution, but if it's a bacterial infection (esp. dropsy), epsom salts are more effective.

Just keep doing those water changes--- someone will help you soon.

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So I'm able to salt while I have prazi in there?

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Salt and Prazi are compatible, yes. But depending on what the cause of the floating behavior is, salt may or may not be helpful.

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OK, I'll hold off on adding anything until someone else comes along.

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Be careful before adding salts as for my case my PH went very very high and lost my goldies unless someone clarify why my PH went high...I think this due to adding salts...Experts will help you..

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Here is a pic of her floating between the glass and the breeding box. See how it forces her to stay upright and keeps her in the water?

DSCF1407.jpg

This is how she spends most of her time when she isn't searching the bottom for food.

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Could something bacterial be causing her to float? Should I try maracyn? 1 or 2 or both? Do I need to make sure no prazi is left before I use it?

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The redness seems to be fading so I guess it was only from her floating even though I didn't ever see her float on that side. She is still floating though and I would like some help on finding out what is causing it.

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She's getting red now on both sides as well as her dorsal fin but they seem to be going away as fast as they come. I guess it just depends on what side she floats on. I would still like to know if there is anything I can do to help her. I picked up some maracyn 2, only had enough money for either that or maracyn 1 at the time but if I need maracyn 1 I can go pick that up too or anything else I need. The only experience I have with a fish floating was one (a goldfish) that had dropsy and one (a betta) that had a growing lump, both ended up dying. I don't want her to end up that way too. I already fasted her, fed her peas and now I soak her sinking pellets when I feed to make sure she gets no more air in her. I used to feed morning and night but stopped feeding in the morning since when she eats she tends to be more buoyant even though she always floats, she just looks to have a harder time swimming back down after she eats. Can someone please give me some advice on what I can do to help her?

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Courtnie I'm sorry that no one has been replying to you! It's good that the redness fades. Is there anyway you can make it so the fish cannot float to the top? Some have suggested using plastic canvas or some sort of divider horizontally, just below the water line, to prevent those air-ulcers.

If the water changes and fasting/peas are not helping, it likely isn't sensitivity to nitrates or constipation. I know it's very difficult to tell on a pearlscale, but are the scales completely flush, or do they stick out a bit (i.e., pineconing slightly/severely)?

It is possible this is bacterial, in which case Epsom salts are better than aquarium salt. Maracyn-2 was what I used with my black moor in the advanced stages of dropsy. I believe Jungles Anti-Bacterial food is usually recommended in the early stages. I will make sure this thread comes to someone's attention who can best help you.

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Courtnie, I am really sorry this thread somehow disappeared down the page although thoughtsofjoy I see is guiding you through very well. How are the patches of red today? Do thy come and go as your fish rubs against the side of the tank where she is floating? Or are they in different patches from where the tank sides are?

I think if they are caused by friction on the glass then tofj's idea about somehow protecting you fish from that happening is important. The balance disorder might then be something less sinister and connected to nitrates or food.

However, if they are coming and going in unrelated areas then I think you can assume your fish has an internal bacterial sepsis which you should treat fast with some medicated food. Jungle anti-bacterial is definitely worth trying. If she is still eating well I would try this alone for one or two days and see if that is all that is needed.

I suspect if its the latter case, your fishes belly may be mushy and soft. Don't press it as this can be dangerous but a quick gentle stroke will tell you if her belly seems soft. Red belly type internal infections are best treated with medicated food and perfect water and if that shows no sign of helping then Maracyn 2 is certainly worth doing. Maracyn 2 cannot be used with Medigold but can be used with Jungle antibac. You can add epsom salts (roughly a quarter teaspoon to 10 gallons) to help with bloat if she hasn't pooped for a while OR her scales are raised/dropsied. Maracyn 2 MUST be used in dim light which means the tank should be covered during medication with a clean towel or something to keep overhead light from de-activating the antibiotic.

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Thank you guys for replying. This morning she only has a little line of redness which I believe is from how she floats next to the breeding box. I was hoping by putting the breeding box in there it would keep her from floating at the surface but I guess it's not working very well and I will try to figure some other way to keep her down. I will also try and get a hold of her to feel her for softness but I have noticed even though she doesn't actually wedge herself between the glass and the box (I have it taped so it doesn't move so she has room on both sides of her) that it seems to be flattening her sides. Since she does tend to float on her sides (not always the same side) she does press against the sides and I just sort of thought because of her floating the pressure could be pushing her side enough to make it flat but maybe she is a little soft. I keep checking to see if she starts to pinecone but like I said it looks like she's flattening more then anything. I haven't seen any poop in tank tank, the filter does a good job at getting rid of it so I don't know if she is pooping. The last time I remember seeing any was when I fed peas and for some reason those turds always hang out for awhile before getting sucked in. I'll fast and feed the peas again just to check for constipation and I will get some Jungle anti-bacterial to feed after peas. Or should I just put in some epsom salt and feed the Jungle anti-bacterial now? It's been a while since I used espom salt, should I put it all in at once or a little at a time like normal salt?

The other fish that is in with her seems perfectly fine although she does seem a bit lost as she used to be the pearlscales shadow. I took a quick video and will post it once I upload it from my camera. It shows her swimming while searching the bottom for food even though I didn't put any in. After she stopped she went right up to her spot to float and hasn't moved since, it's been around 30 mins now.

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Epsom salts will also help with constipation, if she's not dropsied that's good. Since it is a much, much smaller amount than used with aquarium salt you can add all the epsom straight away, dissolved first of course.

Let us know if she feels soft. Also if you see poop (which can help identify an internal problem) and how she is on a few days peas. Have the med food at hand to start if there's no improvement after the peas. Waiting on the vid :)

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Sorry it took so long for the video, for some reason photobucket kept having problems with it uploading and I had to keep picking lower resolutions for it to upload so it looks grainy now. But if you look closely you may be able to see the redness on her right side and a couple white spots on her dorsal fin that I'm assuming are just from too much air contact.

th_DSCF1424.jpg

I will put the espom salt in now and start feeding peas later today as I need to go buy some more. I just felt her and she feels pretty normal to me, not rock hard but no where near soft either. I will keep my eye at for any poop too. If she isn't constipated and doesn't have any sort of bacterial problem that is causing her to float do you think she all of a sudden got very sensitive to nitrates? I know mine aren't perfect but I never really thought they were bad either. She was never exposed to any high ammonia, nitrite or nitrate at least while in my care and I had had her for a while now. I only have 2 fish and a couple snails in a 29 gallon tank and I don't over feed. I'm still planning on getting some plants to help with the nitrates, is there a particular plant that is better then others? I also plan on taking the snails out and putting them in their own tank just to help the water quality a little more. Is there anything else I can do? I feel sorry for her that she spends so much time floating.

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Can you get your pearlscale into a hospital tank? It will be easier to treat in smaller quantities of water and you don't want to treat your telescope needlessly.

I really don't think it's sensitivity to nitrates. If your test result is correct, and your nitrate levels are 10ppm... that's very low, IMO. That's where I keep my nitrates at, and I'm a control-freak about my water quality. Nitrate sensitivity is normally to higher levels, say 25-40ppm nitrate. If you've been doing frequent water changes and keeping your water params pristine, the water quality shouldn't be affecting your pearlie.

It is possible, but I think trying the peas, and then the Jungle Anti-Bac food is a better course.

IMO anubias nana is a good aquarium plant. It has tough, broad leaves that the fish won't be tempted to eat and it is slow-growing, so it won't take over your tank. You can do a bleach dip or a potassium permanganate (PP) dip on the plant to remove any unwanted hitchhikers-- but you should still quarantine the plant to make sure there's no snails, etc.

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My nitrates are 10 straight from the tap, in the tank they are usually 20. I thought about separating the fish but if it was something bacterial then I thought it would be better to treat both even if the other isn't showing any signs. I'll keep my eye out for some anubias or any plant that doesn't look like it's already dying and covered in snails.

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