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lclayton

Help! Have My Fish Been Busy?

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Please take a look at this:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj256/lclayton/eggs.jpg

Are these my goldfish's eggs, or has a snail or something else survived a very long plant QT, even though the tiny plant came from someone who just has a large tank full of java ferns and NO snail problems? ARGH!

If they are fish eggs, I can't believe it. I always said if any of my fish had eggs I wouldn't save them but now that I can actually see some eggs in the tank...I don't know what to do with them. I'll have to get another tank, I have none spare.

Fingers crossed someone tells me these are not fish eggs and I can just vacuum them up! (Although I've already removed the goldfish into a large bucket so that they can't et them!)

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Those are fish eggs :D As sure as a spades a spade- congratulations!!

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Yes I thought as much...######, I wasn't even trying, so unprepared, I bet if I had been the goldies would've just laughed at me.

Now I think about it, the yellow common in my sig was behaving a little oddly last night but I just left her to it. I presume she is the mother but I can't be sure, and the dad is anyone's guess. I have never been sure of any of their sexes so maybe it is Maddy and Juliet lol.

The only tank I had was an 8 litre one that I use for water changes etc. The eggs were all stuck on the bottom so with the aid of some serious swishing action with a net I think I loosened most of them, scooped them in the smallest, finest net I have and plonked them straight in the little tank. Any I've missed will have to become a snack. The adults are currently sulking in a bucket.

Now they are in the little tank, what are their chances, seeing as they have been disturbed? I imagine the hardest part is getting them to hatch and then survive!

I have an air pump which I will connect shortly. Do I need to do anything else, do they need a filter while they are eggs or not until they hatch? I don't have a sponge filter so will have to get one if they hatch, although I do have lots of filter sponges for my goldfish filter, could I fashion something together? (Not sure how!)

If any are going to hatch, how many days will I need to wait? They just have block dots in them right now.

Totally shocked and new to this side of fishkeeping so any advice gratefully recieved!

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Black dots inside is very good news. Round one complete-they are fertilised :rockon:D So one of your fish must be a male (did you notice any nudging/bullying going on recently?

You've done well to move them. It isn't easy. They are like superglue and get rock hard stuck after not very much time. Some of them may have been damaged but some are bound to hatch out.

Now you are going to need a heater (unless you are in warm climes there) and a sponge filter. The eggs will take anything from 2 days to one week to hatch out with the average being about 4 days, it depends on the temperature and fluctuations thereof. No bubbles or current or the fry will be damaged.

I'm going to attach 2 links for you. One is to a DIY sponge filter you can make easily and one is to my diary of the first week of finding eggs and their hatching out. Don't worry it's not a long read and I think it may help you a little just to see whats ahead :) .There are also many other threads in the breeding forum of course that can help you get an idea.

Just wait a minute.....

Here you go:The first 2 weeks in detail

and easy sponge filter :)

Edited by Trinket

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I have a heater but as they are currently only in a 2.5 us gallon tank I have opted for putting them in my bedroom near to the heater. I'll monitor the temperature. If any hatch I will get a larger tank for them. I won't put the aerator in if it is going to damage them. I look forward to seeing how to make a filter though!

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Excellent diary!

Re: the nudging, bullying...well despite Maddy being the biggest, Alan has always chased her, but usually only after a feed. 'Juliet' is usually very placid but when I noticed Maddy being a bit odd last night, I did see J chasing her and nudging her a bit. So maybe J is Julian!

So I'm correct in thinking I don't add a filter or airpump or do anything to the tank until any have hatched?

I'm trying not to get too ahead of myself and think about fry because I know the aren't in an ideal set up right now but it's hard not to get excited. Although I have no idea what I would do with any more goldfish :|

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Good luck anyway. One step at a time. Most important thing is to seed the sponge filter-they only need a few bbs from your maintank, not so many and watch ammonia which is an instant killer of course. Oh and watch out for more eggs, should be several more sprays if you are up early mornings :)

So Julian and Maddy were named accurately after all :D

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"So Julian and Maddy were named accurately after all"

They are now lol, I can't call her Juliet anymore, we're getting into a whole realm of impossibilty there!

MORE eggs? NOOO! I'm going to be sat watching them all day now!

Thanks for all your help!

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Well I can safely conclude that Juliet is a male (shubunkin) and Alan is female (red) :D typical. I knew I should never have named them. At least I got Maddy right. J is currently chasing them both around the tank and practically doing backflips in order to nose and back at their undersides. I know it's natural behaviour but I do feel so sorry for the girls, they look so annoyed. I'm sure they'd be even more annoyed if I took them out and put them in another container for the night though.

I have every expectation that there will be more eggs in the morning.

The original batch are still near to the heater in my room (not too close) because the tank is too small to put a heater in, but I figure at least this way the temperature is constant. There are quite a few white ones which I presume are dead eggs but a fair few are still clear. I'm planning on getting another tank tomorrow, especially if there are more eggs in the main tank, I hope it will be ok to transfer them over to it without damaging them too much further, maybe it will be best to see if any hatch first?

My sister has all day been telling me to 'flush them, they're only eggs' - but I'm just too soft hearted, I can't bring myself not to give them a chance.

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I'm with you! give them a chance! I dug some of mine (including the fry I call Egg) out of a water change bucket with my fingers! Egg is doing great. :D

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Maybe nobody really cares but I feel the need to update anyway :D Looking into the tank while it is over a piece of white paper I can see LOTS of little eyes looking back at me :D I have told my friend to be on new-tank-purchase-alert (I can't drive) because I'm hoping some will hatch tomorrow! I hope they'll be ok in the little 2 gallon until I can get a 10G or 20G up and running. I think keeping it next to a room heater at a constant temeprature will have helped but I'll put a tank heater in the new tank at about 22C (I think that's about 72F?), or should this be any higher/lower?

Edited by lclayton

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Maybe nobody really cares but I feel the need to update anyway :D Looking into the tank while it is over a piece of white paper I can see LOTS of little eyes looking back at me :D I have told my friend to be on new-tank-purchase-alert (I can't drive) because I'm hoping some will hatch tomorrow! I hope they'll be ok in the little 2 gallon until I can get a 10G or 20G up and running. I think keeping it next to a room heater at a constant temeprature will have helped but I'll put a tank heater in the new tank at about 22C (I think that's about 72F?), or should this be any higher/lower?

Yes! Please keep updating! :exactly I find this all so fascinating!

I don't think I could ever do it, myself - as I would be heartbroken if I lost any - but I do enjoy reading about it!

As for the temp, I'm no expert - but I believe in Trinket's link, she had said she set her's at 26?.

Added heater with thermostat and raised the temp to 26 degrees.
Yes - she did. :) (I went back and checked)

I wish you the best of luck with your fry! :happydance I can't wait for more updates!!!

Debbie

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I don't think I could ever do it, myself - as I would be heartbroken if I lost any

I didn't think the fish would ever lay eggs, let alone that I would keep them. Now I feel like they're my babies, I'll be gutted if none hatch after all, or if some of them do and only last a day or so (which I know is normal, but still, sad!)

I've been meticulous over them with a tiny pipette that came with some meds, sucking out any that look like they have fungus on or are empty, and all the random fluff that seems to be getting in the water. I look like I know what I'm doing, but I don't :P There's only about 4 inches of water in the small tank, and I really worry about the quality of it for if they do hatch, but I suppose there isn't much I can do about that until I move them to a bigger tank. (IF, not when, IF!)

Fingers crossed for fry in the morning!

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Fingers crossed for fry in the morning!

:goodluck Most definitely!

I see what you mean.. you weren't expecting eggs. I would be the same as you, that they are now your babies. I'm sure that's how most everyone feels, too!

From other fry diaries that I have read, it seems like you're doing everything right! It's always different going through it yourself, I imagine, wondering and worrying about what you haven't done that you should have - or what you may have done that you shouldn't have. :D

Don't forget to post pics - if you can get any!

Debbie

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FRY FRY FRY FRY FRY!

LOADS OF THEM!

Ok. Keeping calm. Resisting urge to do anything until I have sought expert advice - that's you lot, btw :P

Fry diaries have definitely helped and I don't think any would've hatched had I not read a few of them.

Thing is, the container they are in (I really can't call anything 8 litres a 'tank') surely can't be any good for them...the water is from the adults tank and hasn't been changed since Saturday. Would now be a good time to do a very small water change, just to freshen them up a bit?

I have a 27 litre recepticle they could go into. When should I attempt to move them over to it? I'm thinking have a couple of inches of clean water in the bottom of the 27 litre and when it is the same temperature as the water the fry are already in, very very gently tip the 8 litre onto its side while it is stood in the 27 litre and just let them swim out in their own time.

At what stage should I add a heater and sponge filter?

Also are hikari first bites ok as suitable first food in a few days time, as I can't find liquifry anywhere.

They're too small for a picture yet...

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Ooh Congratulations. Now begins the labor of love!

Yes hikari first bites is fine BUT you shouldn't feed till they are free swimming. Feeding is the hardest thing of all. Overfeeding= Like you have been doing with fluff etc, you MUST remove any uneaten (after 1 or 2 hours...they are slow eaters) because the decay of food releases bacteria that is harmful. And underfeeding too will have some die from starvation quickly. Getting it right takes a while so the first week or so is hardest. You'll need to feed 4 times a day, the winciest little pinch. They need constant filled tummies.

If you want to move them you'll have to wait till they are free swimming too. But warning...moving fry will get killed by any swish of water so everything has to be done in very slow motion. No splash or swirl. With my first batch, moving tanks caused many fry to get bent backs- they are so fragile. And of course everything would have to be perfectly matched, pH and temperature etc.

Have you got a sponge filter set up? As soon as they are all free swimming you can add that.

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I've not got the filter set up because to be honest I don't really have follow how to set them up myself and have looked at a few sites. I seem to be lacking in some things I need and for some reason I am totally unable to find sponge filters in any local shop, I can only find them online. I'll have to figure that out tomorrow before going to shop for supplies tomorrow night.

The tank did end up getting swirled a bit, I didn't mean to, I just had to move it and they all swirled about :( I hope they'll be ok. A lot haven't hatched yet actually, but the ones that have are zooming about all over the place.

I don't see how I'm going to be able to feed them enough either, being in work all day :( oh I'm so worried now!

Edited by lclayton

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Keeping the fry alive is the most difficult part of breeding fish. You can feed hikari first bites and/or liquifry and some fry might survive. But you will have the highest survival rate and healthiest fry if you feed newly hatched brine shimp. Newly hatched brine shrimp will also give you the fasted growth rate. Along with daily water changes.

A sponge filter can be in the fry tank from day one. I keep a sponge filter in the fry tank with the eggs and through hatching and beyond. A heater can also be in the tank with the eggs and through hatching. You don't really need a heater with goldfish. As long as your room temp. is 20C or 68F a heater isn't needed. Warmer temp. will cause the eggs to hatch sooner and the fry might grow a little faster but the warmers temps. aren't needed.

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I feel like a mother hen, I've spent a good hour looking in the tank with a bit of white paper underneath cooing at my little brood! There are at least 40 fry. All have hatched now, but over a couple of days, which is a bit annoying, as they will have different growth rates.I have put a miniscule amount of First Bites in there for the ones that hatched on Monday. I have removed a glassful of water and added 2 glasses of clean water that has been stood for 24 hours, really slowly, just dribbling in a little at a time. I plan to do this every day until the fry get used to the ever so slightly increasing water level, and then I will move them to the larger tub, which will men I can put in the sponge filter I found in an LSF. They will have to do without a filter for now.Most seem healthy and are zooming around the tank. One of them definitely has a twisted back but is still so active I don't know what to do. I feel a bit bad killing it but I imagine it will die anyway...I haven't put a heater in, the room is constantly around 20C.If only they were bigger for a photo!I feel like a mother hen, I've spent a good hour looking in the tank with a bit of white paper underneath cooing at my little brood! There are at least 40 fry. All have hatched now, but over a couple of days, which is a bit annoying, as they will have different growth rates.I have put a miniscule amount of First Bites in there for the ones that hatched on Monday. I have removed a glassful of water and added 2 glasses of clean water that has been stood for 24 hours, really slowly, just dribbling in a little at a time. I plan to do this every day until the fry get used to the ever so slightly increasing water level, and then I will move them to the larger tub, which will men I can put in the sponge filter I found in an LSF. They will have to do without a filter for now.Most seem healthy and are zooming around the tank. One of them definitely has a twisted back but is still so active I don't know what to do. I feel a bit bad killing it but I imagine it will die anyway...I haven't put a heater in, the room is constantly around 20C.If only they were bigger for a photo!

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I feel like a mother hen, I've spent a good hour looking in the tank with a bit of white paper underneath cooing at my little brood! There are at least 40 fry. All have hatched now, but over a couple of days, which is a bit annoying, as they will have different growth rates.

I have put a miniscule amount of First Bites in there for the ones that hatched on Monday. I have removed a glassful of water and added 2 glasses of clean water that has been stood for 24 hours, really slowly, just dribbling in a little at a time. I plan to do this every day until the fry get used to the ever so slightly increasing water level, and then I will move them to the larger tub, which will men I can put in the sponge filter I found in an LSF. They will have to do without a filter for now.

Most seem healthy and are zooming around the tank. One of them definitely has a twisted back but is still so active I don't know what to do. I feel a bit bad killing it but I imagine it will die anyway...

I haven't put a heater in, the room is constantly around 20C.

If only they were bigger for a photo!

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Can't seem to delete that first duplicate post, sorry.

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Well my estimate at 40 was way off, I took the opportunity to count them when they weren't wiggling for once and I think there are more like 70 fry. Crikey. No deaths yet but it's early days.

I've started them on the First Bites. How on earth are you supposed to know how much to feed them? Little and often I understand but there's nothing to use as a comparison. I really need a picture of some on a teaspoon to get an idea :D

They're all getting darker and seem stronger now, actually just swimming about midrange in the tank instead of just flinging themselves across it to get to the otherside.

Roll on sunday evening, the oldest will be a week old...

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Sounds like its time to get the baby brine shrimp. They really thrive on the protein and its important to have a variety. I didn't do my own hatchery-but many do and that's cheaper. I bought frozen baby brine shrimp. For 70 fry you can use 1/4 of a frozen cube once a day to supplement the other feed. For the First bites - you have to work out how much they eat each time.

I'm excited for you. Well done so far :) !

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Well congrats to the babies, common/shubies, they will be adorable! Can't wait for pics!

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Thank you Anette!

I went to a new LSF today to see if I could find a brine shrip hatchery set up - the guy sold me some 'eggs' but when I got home and looked it was actually food for brine shrimp! Genuine mistake I think, similar boxes. I got some liquifry though, for variety. I asked him if he would buy goldies off me, when I said they weren't fancies he looked uninterested but when I said 'shubunkin/yellow common cross' he looked a little more interested and said if I got any to an inch and a half or so he would maybe sort something out, store credit etc. It was a fantastic store, tanks EVERYWHERE, I can't believe I hadn't been before.

Anyway, fry are still all alive. Still in unfiltered water but I'm going to work on that over the weekend and get them in the bigger tank. Getting a lot darker so might get some pics soon!

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