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Pixiefish

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That garlic paste does sounds purging :D ! I think it can only help them Pixie. That poop suggests internal something..and yes Id give it a few days and run Prazi and salt if those spots are not cleared up.

The formaldehyde based treatments will not usually work for body/gill flukes- although it will work for some other intestinal and exterior parasites. I always prefer salt to formaldehyde/green meds because it does the same but is less hard on the fish. Also the formaldehyde becomes extremely dangerous at cold temps so don't ever keep it in the fridge. Formaldehyde is insecticide. A chemical re-action occurs that is very toxic to the fish if you keep it in a very cold place. And it is deactivated in light so you have to cover the tank and keep it dark during treatment or it wont work. Complicated!

If you run Prazi and .3% salt your cycle shouldn't bump but it might a fraction so keep an eye out for that.

Those white spots..again the salt should cure them if they are fungal/bacterial. Doesn't sound like tubercles.

And the Prazi covers you for gill/body flukes so I think if you see no change after a few days in pristene water you should try that.

Keep us posted :heart

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Oh OK - thanks for feedback, Trinket.

Well I'll order the Prazi from rockymountainpond.com - yazooo tells me they'll ship to the UK.

I think it's one of those things fishy people should have to hand anyways and if I don't see any change I'll run it as you suggest along with the salt. I'll just have to put my plants back into a QT with a light until it's finished. No biggie.

I did know about formaldehyde and cooling so I'm glad you've expressed a preference for the prazi - it sounds like nasty stuff and I think it even comes with a carcinogen warning - :ill

I'll report back on the garlic effects - I pretty much cleared the lfs single handed when I opened it up yesterday, so that's a good start!

thanks

Pixie

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Oh dear. :(

I think my little t'scope Ziggy may just be beginning to bottom-sit. He is most usually trawling the surface and middle, but now, 3 times this evening, I've seen him crouched on the bottom motionless in the crook of the tank corner and canister filter. He does move when I go up to him but NEVER usually goes anywhere near the floor except when feeding.

So now I'm thinking I should act quickly.

The Prazi could still be days away; the joys of living in the UK. I do have Sterazin now and could easily get hold of Flubenol in a couple of days. Or my small fish shop has Sera Med tremazol - nasty stuff says Yazooo - which I could get tomorrow. None of these are ideal but as the long thin poops and surface trawling have been going on for months I'm afraid that if this is a turning point he could suddenly go down hill fast.

The QT has the new oranda in it. Man, I knew I'd live to regret that!

The concensus seems to be possible internal parasites - does anyone think differently?

Input very much wanted - HEEEEEEELP!

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I've got some kind of off the wall ideas here but I have seen a similar case before. I've got some kind of silly questions for you but bear with me there's a method to my madness. I need a list of every thing you feed your fish (brand names please). Foods that require more preparation than dumping in the tank I need to know how you do it. What's the average water temp in this aquarium? How long did you have the fish before you began seeing the problems? Do you have substrate in the bottom of the tank or is it bare bottom? Have you noticed any lumps, bumps, or otherwise abnormal appearance to the abdomen of the fish? What color is the fish's "arm pits"? Are they swollen? Can you confirm the sex of the fish? And of course I need the regular questions answered for diagnosis(water params and blah blah blah). I'm not making any promises but I'll try to help. :k055: It's gonna be ok :heart

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Oh dear. :(

I think my little t'scope Ziggy may just be beginning to bottom-sit. He is most usually trawling the surface and middle, but now, 3 times this evening, I've seen him crouched on the bottom motionless in the crook of the tank corner and canister filter. He does move when I go up to him but NEVER usually goes anywhere near the floor except when feeding.

So now I'm thinking I should act quickly.

The Prazi could still be days away; the joys of living in the UK. I do have Sterazin now and could easily get hold of Flubenol in a couple of days. Or my small fish shop has Sera Med tremazol - nasty stuff says Yazooo - which I could get tomorrow. None of these are ideal but as the long thin poops and surface trawling have been going on for months I'm afraid that if this is a turning point he could suddenly go down hill fast.

The QT has the new oranda in it. Man, I knew I'd live to regret that!

The concensus seems to be possible internal parasites - does anyone think differently?

Input very much wanted - HEEEEEEELP!

The main thing is not to panic. When do you think that the prazi will be arriving? It took a week for it to get to me.

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Thanks both! Just to add to the frustration my computer's gone haywire so I'm on my daughter's laptop. It's late now and I'm dead. So I'll get up early and post back with the params and feeding details etc,

Nighty night.

Edited by Pixiefish

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I'm sorry to hear theres been a down turn Pixie. And that the prazi is not here yet. I would still suggest waiting for it and doing a filter clean out meanwhile. How are your nitrates? Any other new symptoms- we are all rooting for you here!

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DO you have the fish in salt right now?

I am sorry I did not get on the other day - my answering abilities were slightly curtailed due to the upgrade......

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Oh Pixie... I had no idea your fish were so poorly :( As Daryl says, I'd salt up to 0.3% if you haven't already, it does sounds like internal parasites mybe with something secondary going on. I did read back through your thread but I've fogotten - have you heated the tank up?

I know you're are waiting for prazi to arrive but I do have some Paraiste Clear you are more than welcome to have, if you and daryl etc. think it may help? Just let me know and I can post it off right away. PC is a pretty mild all-in-one parasite medication - it has a teeny weeny concentration of prazi in it I think, but it may keep things at bay until your prazi arrives? Anyways, let me know. Best of luck with your fishies - I'm willing them on too :heart

Edited by mrbumblebee

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PArasite Clear is actually mostly PRazi with an antibiotic chaser to help with the inevitable secondary bacterial infections that seem to go hand and hand with parasites. (It just is not a huge WOMP of PRazi -but for many lightweight infestations it can do the trick well). Salt will help on the parastie problem, but an antibiotic - no matter how lightweight, may be in order here.

I would definately give it a go if you guys are close enough to get it to her soon....

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Thanks Daryl :) I wasn't sure how much Prazi was in it - it claims to zap flukes, but I always thought it was too small an amount to deal with anything other than mild infestations - the metronidazole antibiotic may help Pixies fish though, right?

I can post it off today, but I think Pixies logged off now :( - I'll pm/email for her address and I can have it with her by tomorrow if need be :)

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OMG! Thank you so much everyone, for being so helpful! Especially you, MrB. I'll PM you after this.

Sorry I'm late - Got de-railed from posting back all the info this am.

So here is everything :

PH: almost 8.2, up slightly from 8.0 last wed (odd it should rise as I put in bogwood last week)

Am: 0

Nite: 0

Nate: API = 40, Hagen = 10, API Strip = 40-50 (go figure? I wish they'd come up with an easier one)

Tank 180L Juwel Vision running since Dec 2005. I think after gravel displacement etc it is closer to 160L cap.

Filtration is a little down since my 1500 pump died.

So currently, Juwel pump 600L/hr and Fluval 3+ 700L/hr =1300 which is @8x vol/hr. My other fluval 3 (540L/hr) is in the QT.

I've had the built-in canister sliced off the tank wall for a while now so that it's possible to rinse the crud out of the bottom.

W/changes between 40% -100% weekly depending on Nitrates.

Fish = 3 (1 fat Ranchu 4", 2 T'scopes measuring 2.5" and 3.5". No new additions to tank.

I'm really not certain what sex they are but every now and again Mango does for very short periods appear to chase the others with his nose under their caudal fins. It's never long enough for me to be sure if it really is 'chasing' though. The only other 'clue' is that Shadow let out a very long bubbly thread which was completely transparent - like bubbly egg-white. Wasn't sure if it was eggs or not.

Added QT'd Plants Sunday last after 100% w/change + one small piece of bogwood.

Treatments previously ran Melafix and Pimafix 2wks ago. Salted to .1%. last week No salt right now after w/change on Sun.

Feeding Normal routine was Tetra Fin Gold sinking pellets, some frozen live food and peas or greens (x2/3 weekly) Usually fed smaller amounts, three times daily.

About 1 month ago I switched soley to frozen live food to help with roughage- Mysis shrimp and the Tropical quartet cubes (water fleas, mosquito larvae, etc) and peas every other day.

Last week I began the garlic treated sinking pellets and that's all they've had apart from peas. The lfs mgr mixed up the garlic for me with Tabimim Tetra sinking pellets for tropical fish as he said they are very absorbent. Hope this food has not been a mistake? I always soak everything in tank water first.

Today, Mango's tail spots are almost gone save one, but he/she has 2 white spots on his head that whiten and fade. Today they are feint.

Haven't found anymore of the very long white poops this week but having said that I don't ever see the T'scopes go while Mango still poops like a donkey! Ziggy seems alright today and has not been on the bottom so far.

Will go and do another w/change now. Should I add salt now?

OK well that's more than long enough. I could've drawn up the Warsaw Pact in less time!

Thanks for any other feedback. You guys are great :heart

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Hey pixie! I faxed your thread to my vet and he agrees with daryl. He suspects parasites and secondary bacterial infection. he says Daryl's advise is sound and to stick with it.

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Thank you, everyone. How kind you all are. :bighug

I finally got my dial-up fixed which has prevented me getting on properly all day.

I've done a fairly big water change but haven't added any salt yet. I wasn't sure if it works with PC.

:heart

Pixie

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Thanks for address, I'll send it off first thing tomorrow morning Pixie - you won't get it until thursday so I'd salt your tank back up if I were you - so the fish have some cover.

My understanding is that PC is safe to use during salting - the one time I've used it in the past it was during salting to 0.3%

Check out this thread

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=12558

Scroll down to post #16 by Toothy, he says it's safe to use during 0.3% salt - not sure where he got that info, but he does know his stuff :exactly

*checks back of packet* it doesn't say anything specific about compatibility with salt - but then often these meds don't state it anyway. I think I'd use it concurrently with aquarium salt again :)

Edited by mrbumblebee

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Hi Pixiefish:

It sounds like what you've got there is a few females reabsorbing eggs. I have two of my girls having the same poop comming out of them. Chances are is that you have some females that didn't make it to the breeding stage and are just trying to get all those eggs out of there system. I haven't had goldfish for more then a yeah yet, but my knowledge on them is rapidly growing. I also haven't had any babies yet due to me keeping the water the same tempurature constant, s no little baby goldfish. :exactly

Hope this helps.

Crazy Fish Geek :D

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Sent off some PC today. Hopefully,you should get it by tomorrow (Thursday) so you'll have it available if you need it :)

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Pixie, sounds like you are in good hands with the PC and the incoming Prazi, so I won't comment on any of that.

What however got my attention is the big percentage of frozen foods you are feeding. Is it still all frozen, or do you have mostly live food there? The reason I am asking is that most of the frozen foods can carry parasites/bacteria with them, that isn't completely eliminated during the freezing process. Only one brand guarantees bacteria/parasite free frozen foods, and that is "Bio pure" by Hikari. They have a special process that supposedly kills any bacteria/parasites. With all the new foods popping up left and right, there might be others who can guarantee that quality too, but it should say so then on the package.

Some of those live foods just naturally are raised in dirty conditions. As an example, you couldn't pay me enough to feed live/frozen tubifex worms to my fish. I don't know how some of the other frozen foods are raised, and I generally either raise live food myself (brine shrimp for fry mostly), or buy the Hikari brand by the truck load.

So, just to cover it from the food end of things, if it were my fish, I would lay off on the frozen foods for a while, or work them into a gel food base, mostly with veggies like spinach, peas, red pepper, and just a tiny amount of frozen foods. I cook my gel food, so any bacteria or parasite would pretty much be killed off (hopefully).

Hope this is clearing up soon.

By the way, your fish like to eat your plants? Maybe you can get some cheap anacharis for them to munch on as well - plant material is very good and gentle for the goldfish as well, and does contain a small amount of protein as well. Not as high as frozen foods, but protein nonetheless. :)

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Thanks for this info, Ranchugirl.

Yes, Trinket had also mentioned that the frozen-live food might not be such a good idea. I had used it because I thought it would provide more roughage than the sinking pellets. Their problems had preceded the introduction of this food but I will take your advice nevertheless. I guess they'd had the livefood for about a month in all before I switched to the garlic food last week. The brand I have been using is called Dutch Select Food; there is mysis shrimp, daphnia, red and white mosquito larvae and artemia. I've just checked the packet which claims that there is no presence of polution or germs but who knows what kind of guarantee that is!

What do you think about Fish Geeks idea of eggs? Fish (with the upsidedown fantail) had also mentioned the same long strands appearing in the water. I wonder if it could be an additional factor?

I'm thinkingthat Mr Bumblebee should have a medal for helpfulness 'above and beyond the call of duty' :exactly

I wonder if Koko can design him one?

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PM'd you, Mr B.

Postal strike today and no mail. Isn't it great to be living in a 3rd world country? One Half of it underwater and the other with no mail! I'm loving it!

:madrant

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Yay! PC Meds! :nana

I've dosed the Main tank and the QT.

I pre-disolved the tabs for the main tank and just stuck one into the QT to release on its own. Hope that was right.

Mango - major pig - swallowed a small undisolved piece of the tab as it dropped into the tank. I hope this won't hurt.

Well now I'll watch......

Thank you so much MrB - you are a life-saver.

:thanks:D:D:D

Pixie

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Yay! Die parasites die!! :bat:

I hope it either does the trick or slows things down/holds them off untill you get your plain Prazi through. Are you salting to 0.3% still too?

It's not unsual for goldies to take a nibble of meds as they fall in the tank, most often they spit it back out again because I'm certain they don't taste that great! Most probably it dissolved in her mouth and she spat it out what was left.

Keep us updated anyhow :)

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Thank you so much.

The QT is already .3% and I'm still raising the main tank.

You were right about the salt affecting the nitrites, though - my QT is always showing between 0 and 0.25. I find I have to do a 100% every second day.

So, for the main tank I think I shall have to read up on AlistairW's brilliant DIY solution to the python bad-UK- tap-fit prob. Then life will be much easier.

Updates soon

:rolleyes:

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Just updating:

Cocoa doesn't seem to like the meds and has gone into his flower-pot. I'm wondering what I should do if his params get too high before the 48hr dosing period is over. Meds with nitrite isn't exactly going to be a ball is it? Should I just do a w/change then add the second dose? Not sure.

The others in the main tank seem fine but look as if they've been given tranqs! They are all spaced out and drifting around rather unanimatedly. I guess it is normal for them to be affected somewhat while the medication kills whatever they are carrying?

Thanks everyone.

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