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ranchu_man

Cloudy Water...

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I was thinking that if you pump in your filter has a prefilter on it, you could just dump them in the the last section of the sump.

I picked up a mesh breeder net thingi. has a plastic frame with a net over it and metal flaps to hang it on the side of the tank. looks like this one: http://www.fritzpet.com/netbreeder.html

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Yep, got two of the fine mesh ones (maybe not the same brand but looks the same). Very useful for isolating mama ciclids before the little frys are ready to come out. :)

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Captk, no problem. I have given a lot of troubles to you guys already. I will definately try the Dapnia method and this is probably a long term solution. I have already switches off the lights already most of the day except at night for about 2 hours. I will update you guys on the progress. The problem is getting exciting and hope I can cure the tank in a while. Thank you guys...appreciate it very much... :D

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You are most kind, RM. We haven't solve your problem yet but it is a challenging one. :)

However, I have found something very interesting. Have you heard of the Redfield ratio? I guess not. :)

Well, apparently, some researchers did some work on the likelihood of getting the blue-green algae vs the green algae based on the amount of nitrAte and phosphate in an aquarium. There appears to be a certain ratio of this two elements whereby no algae will grow. The interesting thing is that it doesn't mean zero nitrAte or zero phosphate but a ratio of 16:1 of both.

npratiotabel_eng.gif

What this means in practical terms is that instead of madly trying to reduced everything to zero, you find out what you nitrAte and phsophate levels are and then add or subtract one or the other until you arrive at the white zone whereby there is least chance of algal growth. :) E.g. if your nitrAte is at 15ppm, you will need phosphate at around 0.75ppm to balance it. If your phosphate is 01.ppm than you will get lots of green algae!

I know it sounds radical and I don't expect you to rush out there and start adding fertilisers but it is an interesting concept. How about getting a phosphate test kit and do some tests and see if the result lines up with the table. Maybe you can try experimenting in a container of tank water while approximating the tank condition.

BTW, this is the original article;

http://www.xs4all.nl/~buddendo/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm

The author is Dutch so the English is a bit of a mixed bag but you can make sense of it. :)

Betty, what think you?

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Captk, this is something very interesting. I will definately look into this method. All the time I thought the nitrate level should be maintained at lowest level possible for fish growth and health of the tank. That's where the bigger water change came in and "crash" the system. I am not sure about how phosphate comes into the picture and the main source. I heard that marine tanks are very particular about phosphates. Can you actually "dose" phosphate or it comes naturally from the system like nitrate etc.

I have just added about 50ml of Daphnia to the tank and I used a medium size net to hold them (can't get a breeder net today). I have also added some to the filter and hopefully they could survive there as the flow is very high in the filter. To my surprise, all the Daphnia in the net are gone within 2 hours all eaten up by my Black Moor and Oranda. Both gf literary sucks the daphnia through the net! :rofl I have to get more tomorrow cause most of the Daphnia are eaten up. Do you have this problem when using a breeder net? The mesh of the net is quite small and yet the gf manages to suck all of them out....darn gf :D

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I've heard of that happening before. LOL

That's why I suggested the sump.

from what I've read, phosphates encourage algae growth. You could check out your city's annual water quality report to find out average values for phosphate.

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It was so funny yesterday. Thought you'd get a kick out of this.

I was out back picking an onion and noticed that my green water tub that has been VERY green, isn't green... looked close and it's chock full of daphnia. (it got some daphnia in it last year that I was hoping they died over the winter time. sha... they didn't)

Anyhow, all the fishies got a daphnia treat.

You should have seen the goldies. They were a hoot. The newbies can still see individual daphnia and were zig zagging around mid tank with the tetra picking them off. Stripe was mostly swimming around mid tank like a big white vacuum. Just indescriminantly vacuuming the water. Coco was oblivious for a bit and was eating duckweed as usual and then he got a clue and alternated between mid tank and the bottom. Both the moors were vacuuming the bottom. It's lucky goldfish can't hyperventilate!! It was quite a sight! :)

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Lucky fish, free treats! :lol:

Yes, before I found this article, it was my understanding that both nitrAte and phosphate encourages algal growth and that is why you need to keep them under control. However, if what the article say is true then it is more a balancing act which you can control to your own advantage. The article uses potassium phosphate and KNO3 to control both phosphate and nitrAte directly.

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Yes, the gf can really suck out every tiny bits of the daphnia from the tank itself. This morning when I check the tank with lights on, not a single daphnia is visible. All gone... You suggested to place the daphnia in the sump. Did you mean in the pump section or the 1st stage area? The pump area is relatively small and the pump will suck all of them to the tank unless I place a very fine mesh filter to block the pump intake. I am thinking of putting them directly into the main tank earlier but I guess the gf will swallow all of them within an hour. :)

How would you normally get Daphnia in your area? All our Daphnia are not cultured but harvested from the large septic tank (open air processing sewage plant)..yeak.. I am not very comfortable using this type of Daphnia but this is the only source. I would normally use my tank water to rinse is for a few times before placing them in the tank. So far no major problems as I feed my frys from the same source.

Just one question on phosphate. Is it coming from tap water or it is a byproduct of generated from the nitrfying bacteria? I have no idea about phosphate all and how to control it. I will try getting a test kit but not sure whether I can get hold of one.

Cheers......

Edited by ranchu_man

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Phosphate... from the tap water I'd bet. annual water quality report will tell ya how much on average.

Daphnia... Yea... in with the filter... maybe in the net?

What about between stage 1 and 2?

That is creepy. I got my daphnia from Dallas Discus.

Capt: neat table. I remember reading article on BGA from Oklahoma State Univ on algae blooms in the lake here in town. Seems like they were saying something similar (haven't got time to re-read it at the moment).

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/OAS/oas.../v68/p39_44.pdf

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I have installed a in-line UV sterilizer yesterday to kill the algae. How long should the UV lamp be swiched on? Should it be all day till the water clears up? The water seems to improve a little (still green and cloudy though) after running the UV lamp for 16 hours since yesterday.

In normal day how long should the UV run? I am intending to build another higher power UV to be placed at the sump area.

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Ranchu Man, I don't know about UV's installed on tanks, but mine outside on the ponds run day and night. I kind of like the green growing light when everything else is dark. It scared the dickens out of my daughter for a few days though! :lol:

I have seen a fully pea green pond clear up within 4-5 days with a properly sized UV. How many watt does yours have?

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I agree with Andrea, you will need to run it 24/7 at least until the water clears and then you can work out an optimal schedule by trial and error. :)

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I think the lamp power is 10W and it is housed in a black plastic barrel. I am not sure whether this is sufficient for a 70g tank as the flow rate through the lamp is quite high at 1800l/hr.

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I don't use one myself because I have algae on the walls and that's all and my fish like to snack on them. I have seen one recently that is 8W. Is the flow rate adjustable? You don't want the water to flow too fast. You are not trying to give the algae and bacteria a sun tan afterall. ;)

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Okay, I did a bit more digging an came up with some numbers.

For a 8W sterilizer. The max effective flow rate for algae and bacteria is 120GPH. So let's say a comfortable 100GPH which is 400L/hr.

A 15W system can go up to 230GPH but that is still way under 1800L/hr!

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Captk,

Thanks for the information. I also thought that 1800l/hr flow rate is just too fast for a 10W lamp used in the in-line configuration. The pump and UV is non adjustable thus not able to bring the flow rate down. I have just modified another lamp using a quartz sleeve to house a 10W T5 lamp and place it inside the sump. The water level in the sump is now adjusted to about 10" (used to be about 4" during normal use). This will maximize the water contact time with the UV lamp. This lamp is a better quality lamp made by Sankyo Denki, UVC gemicidal lamp. I think the performance is much better that the in-line type as those are using cheap China lamps.

I also did partial water change justnow to reduce the amount of algae in the water. Nitrate was also building up slowly.

Hope this works as it is very awful to have a green tank in the living room. :)

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Hey, RM, you better be careful that you are not nuking the good bacteria as well. I can't quite picture what you are doing or my mental picture seems to imply that you will be irridating more than just the sump.

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Captk,

The results of the new lamp is excellllllent!! I have seeing immediate improvements after running only for 6 hours. The water is clearing up and I could see the other side of the tank now. Sill a little cloudy though but most green are gone..

Yes, I am aware that the UV lamp place in the sump might kill the good bugs. I have placed 2 pcs of aluminium reflector, onr in the sump and the other outside the filter to maximize UV ray irridation in the sump. The reflectors will shield most of the UV rays from the media. Todays job is quite crude and I will make a new reflector using stainless steel next week to shield the ray from getting to the 2nd stage filter. The 1st filter media should be OK as it blocked by the 2nd stage media.

I think by tomorrow the water should clear up. One question is whether the UV rays can clear up cloudy water cause by the heterotrophic bacteria? The UV rays should kill them all but can it be trapped by the filter media clearing up the water making the water sparkling again? This is the first time I am using a UV lamp and seems to be very effective.

Cheers...........

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That's good news! :D

Yes, it should kill the bacteria as well. It doesn't really matters if they are trapped by the filter media because they will rot away. However, with that much dead algae and bacteria, you better watch your ammonia and nitrIte. It can spike quickly.

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Hi Captk, thanks for the advise. I will monitor the water quality. Will update you later on the progress.

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ok. now I'm even more envious of your tank/sump! LOL

where'd you find the UV bulb? what kinda base does it have?

and DO be careful. UV light can do bad things to you and your biofilter bugs.

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Hi Guys, excellent news!! The tank was super clear this morning. The water looks like it has just been changed. I have attached the pictures of the tank before and after the UV treatment and it was sooooooo dramatic. I must thank you all your all your kind assistance. It has been a great experience to solve the green pea soup problem. The tank clears up in just 16 hours without the use of any chemicals. I intend to continue to use the UV about 10 houra daily (attached to the timer of the aquarium lamp). Do you think this is sufficient? I also checked the water parameters with both ammonia and nitrite at zero ppm.

DG, the lamp is made by the Japs and I still have 10pcs in stock. I purchased it some years ago to build UV strilizers for air purifications. I have also purchased large quantities of UV lamps from Atlantic Ultraviolet Inc. located in New York. They produced very good quality UV lamps and quartz sleeves. They are very expensive though and we used it for water strilization of RO water used in the medical industry. The most important point for a good UV strilizer is to have a quartz sleeve to house the lamp. Quartz is able to transmit UV very well hence not losing much of the irridation. If the sleeve is of poor quality glass the UV power will be lost hence affecting the effectiveness. UV is a kinda bad if you exposed it to your skin and naked eye. If you shield it properly it will be OK :) I have shielded the light from the other chamber of the filter or else it will kill all the good bugs but still some light will get through as the lamp is placed inside the sump. I will do some mod to improve the shielding. Here are the pictures of the tank.

Before UV treatment

tank_side.jpg

After 16 hours UV treatment

side_afteruv.jpg

Before UV treatment - front view

tank_light_on.jpg

After 16 hours UV treatment - front view

frontafteruv.jpg

Edited by ranchu_man

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Hey, Ranchu man, you have fish in your tank!! :rofl Now, thats what I would call an improvement big time!! Niiiiiice! :heart

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