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Guest goldenmom

I'm A Newbie, Please Help Before My Fish Dies :(

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:) Hi Lynn,Glad to see your fish is feeling somewhat better. I know that it was in your pond,and that you put it in a hospital tank.I'm going to assume that you have just set that tank up,and that the reason the Nitrites/NitrAtes are reading 0 is because the tank hasn't cycled yet. As for your ammonia reading,I'm thinking that you meant to say 0.50 instead of 5.0? :blink: For a new tank,ammonia levels will spike for about ten days or so until you get a Nitrite Reading.If I'm not mistaken,I think you said that your PH was 7.4,and with ammonia,anything over 7.2 can make ammonia even more toxic,so it's important to test daily & continue with the small water changes to get it as low as you can.Do you have an airstone or bubblewand in the tank? That will help provide extra aeration for your fish.Alot of it's eratic behavior could have been caused by the ammonia so by continuing with the water changes,you may see some definate improvement on his behavior. :) By the way,Margaret sounds like a really cute fish! ;)

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Guest goldenmom

Oops!! I did mean .5 Sharon, not 5.0. Whew! that would be quite a difference. So, I gather from what you are saying, that the elevated ammonia is just part of the cycling process. I will continue to do the water changes and treat her for flukes and bacteria with the Prazi and Medigold that's on its way, and hopefully this story will have a happy ending. Her tail, dorsal fin and scales still look on the ragged side, but I don't see anymore Ich, thank goodness. The Medigold will hopefully take care of that long white poo, and the Prazi will take care of any flukes she might have, and I think that will solve all our problems for now, and I can relax a little. I was so overwhelmed when all this started because I didn't know what I was looking for or at, didn't know how to treat it, and was SO afraid of losing this adorable little creature. But, thanks to wonderful people like you, Lachfa and Sandy, I am a little calmer and am learning the process as I go. I will keep you updated and hopefully I won't have to post anymore half-hysterical pleas for help. I am loving these darling little fish and am enjoying meeting all of you and learning all this great stuff. Thanks again.

Lynn :)

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:blink: if she does have flukes and was in the pond with other fish it is very likely they have them too....and they are in the pond....I am not sure where you are located and what the weather is.....does anyone know if the cold will kill the flukes off?

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Lachfa I am pretty sure that cold water doesn't kill them off. From what I know of them, they are only suseptible to salt or Prazi from Goldfish connection.

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Guest goldenmom

So far my other three Orandas and my Shubunkin are all doing great in the pond. I live in Florida, so the water hasn't gotten that cold, especially since I just started this pond about three and a half weeks ago. If they have flukes or anything else, I'm not aware of it. Poor Margaret is the only one that is sick. Now, I did lose two small orandas about the time she got sick, but so far none of the others have been affected. (knock on wood). But what you say about the pond being infected makes sense, so I think I will treat them all. This way, when Margaret is ready to go home, the pond will be clean, that is if I let her go home :) I'm still worried about her. Her one side just looks terrible and lately she is standing almost on end trying to, what looks like to me, eat off the rocks in the bottom of the tank. I don't know if she is scratching or eating, but I haven't seen her do this before. I've started giving her some peas in the afternoon and was wondering if you all think this is okay? I did another 25% water change today, and the ammonia still remains at .50. It is so frustrating. Well, I'll keep you all posted and hopefully the meds will come early. Thanks again, everyone.

Lynn :)

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Guest goldenmom

Hi, everyone,

Well, my poor Margaret has been through so much. Thanks to all of you, I got the Ich and Fin Rot cleared up, but the other day, she developed fuzzy, white spots on her tail and dorsal fin. She has a streak on her side that looks like dried scales at the top and skin without scales the rest of the way down. I don't think it has that same fuzzy stuff on it. Before my water change today, she seemed to want to float to the top, but could still swim downward with ease. She's eating well, pellets in the morning and peas in the afternoon. I'm still doing my 25% water change everyday and today, as always, the numbers are the same. They are:

PH 7.6

Ammonia - 1.0 before water change everyday, and after change it's .50

Nitrite - .0

Nitrate - .0

Now my black Oranda in the pond also has these same white, fuzzy spots on his fins and side. My ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all at .0, but the pond's PH is darker than the color at 8.8. What am I doing wrong??? The salt is at 3TBSP/5gal in my 10gallon tank, and 2TBSP/5gallon in my 100gallon pond. Should I start my Pimafix again??? The Medigold and Prazi I ordered should be here on Wednesday and I don't know if the Pimafix would mix with them. All I wanted was some fish for my pond and it just seems like one thing after another is happening and I want so badly to get my babies well so I can just enjoy them. Please help me get this right :( Thanks so much for all the help you have given me in the past, and have the patience to give me in the future.

Lynn :)

Edited by goldenmom

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Guest goldenmom

I'm really getting worried about Margaret. I don't know if I'm being paranoid or not, but she just doesn't look healthy. She has these white, fuzzy spots on her tail and dorsal fin and the black spots on her sides look bigger. She just doesn't act like she's well or happy even though I have not seen any pineconing or swelling. She ate peas this morning and is scavenging around on the bottom as I speak. I'm hoping she's trying to eat, but she could be scratching. Trying to keep this 10 gallon tank in perfect harmony is getting to be thankless job as I just can't get the ammonia to .0. Everyday it is 1.0, with everything else being .0, and everyday I do a 25% water change which only brings it down to .50. I am going to do a 30% change today to see if that helps, but I'm wondering if she wouldn't be better off in my pond again since that water is perfect except for a high PH? My other oranda in there and my Shubunkin also have a couple of these fuzzy spots, but otherwise are healthy. Should I just put Margaret back in with her buddies and feed everyone the Medigold and treat with the Prazi when it comes? Should I start the Pimafix I have and will it mix with the other meds when they get here? Right now I have an elderly mother in a nursing home after breaking her hip that I have to care for everyday, and this schedule of water changes and the sheer upset of watching this fish is starting to get to me. I never thought I was in for these kinds of problems when I innocently bought a few fish for my pond. I need to fix this and do it for all my fish as soon as possible as I'm starting to wear down. If I could just see some real progress that kept getting better, I'd feel better, but it just seems to stay the same day after day. Does anyone have any advice? I've got the 10 gallon at 3TBPS salt per 5 gallons. There are nothing but some rocks in the bottom, and I feel so sorry for her with nothing but herself in the tank and not feeling good to boot. Please help me get her well because everytime I go over to her tank it looks as if she's asking me for something and I just don't have a clue as to what to do next. Thanks again.

Lynn :)

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Lynn, it might be that Margaret has contracted fungus disease, since you described it as white, fuzzy growth. I would keep trying to lower the ammonia in the tank. I havn't had any experiances with fungus before, so I can't be certain in diagnosing it or recommending a cure. I do know that there are treatments that can be purchased at pet stores which contain a description of the diseases they treat on their label; you could try and find something that fits your fish's ailment description. (I have never used Prazi; does it treat fungus and bacteria?) As mentioned before, I have never dealt with fungus or many other diseases so I WOULD wait for someone else with more experiance to second my opinion on this topic.

Hope everything works out for you and Margaret.

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Guest goldenmom

Thanks, Roano, for your concern. I just don't know what to do. I don't know if I should do a complete water change and start over since it doesn't look like this tank is cycling? I just tested it again after doing a 25% change just a few hours ago, and it's up to 1.0 again. GRRRRR!!!! I'm starting to panic as she just swims in one spot looking at me and not around the tank like she was doing. I just put her in a holding tank with about 1-2 gallons of water, 2qts of the tank water and the rest treated water from the tap. The PH and temp were okay and almost matched, and I'm on my way to get more salt. BUT, should I just take all the water out of this tank and start over again with good, clean water?? My meds should be here tomorrow, but this water doesn't look as clean as it did when I first put her in it about a week ago. I HAVE TO HELP this fish! I have become attached and she does nothing but hang at the side of the tank looking at me. I even transported her by hand into the holding tank and she didn't mind a bit. I've been hand feeding her and she loves it. Not because she can't eat on her own, but because she is just a tame, darling, endearing creature. I just need to know if I should start over with clear water and PimaFix? If anyone out there can help me, I would be so indebted to you. Lachfa, are you out there? Can you tell me where to go from here? Surely, this ammonia can't be good for her. I know she has some kind of fungus and that is why I need to know if I should start the Pimafix? The Medigold will take care of bacteria, but will it take care of fungus, too?

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Sounds like cotton wool (fungus) desease and ammonia burns. And taking a fish from a pond into a tank, especially one as small as a 10 gallon, allready over stocked with other fish, are causing her -and the others- alot of stress. (This is also the reason the ammonia wont go down, that tank is being so overwhelmed, it cant process ammonia, you need at least 30 gallons for the amount of fish listed, actually alot more, as shubunkins need more then the 10gallon per fish rule)

She needs to be in a much much much larger tank, or back in the pond, but if you put her back in the pond, she will give Cotton to the other fish in it. You have to treat her for the velvet immediatley, before putting her with other fish.

Answer the questions in the white box above so we can get a better idea of the setup. We will be able to help you further.

But whut i would do for the moment is treat her for Cotton with a broad spectrum fungus medication for the time being, and do a 50% -or more- water change every day, if you cant get her into a bigger tank or a 10 gallon by herself. The others need to be treated for Cotton as well.

Edited by Meg_Carroll

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Guest goldenmom

I'm wondering if I should get some of that Ammolock? Do you think that would help? Also, should I get that Stress Coat since she's probably stressed? I promise when I learn all of this stuff, I won't be so hysterical and ask so many questions, but right now I feel so helpless and that is what is making me nuts. Thanks so much to all who are able to reply to me.

Lynn :(

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Im not sure about which meds are which, i just have a broad spectrum fungus med called fungus eliminator, ahahaha. just read the label. Answer the stuff in the box above, well be able to pinpoint exactly whut is going on. And no worries about the questions. Our fish are just as important to us as yours is to you, and we are all frantic when a problem arises. Best of luck Lynn!

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Guest goldenmom

Hi, Meg,

Margaret is in the tank by herself. The other fish are in my 100 gallon pond in my backyard. The PH is about 7.6, Ammonia .50 - 1.0, Nitrite .0, Nitrate .0, and temp about 76 - 78. I feed her a few pellets in the morning and peas in the afternoon for a snack. Everytime I pour new water in, I net any debri that starts floating around. If you think a 50% will help, I will be glad to do it. Anything to help this little baby. I have Medigold and Prazi arriving tomorrow and will start that, but I don't know if it helps fungus. I do have Pimafix on hand and maybe I should get a heater too. I am using AquaSafe to treat my water and was wondering if I still have to let it set for 24hrs? Thanks so much for your help, Meg, but she's been in this tank by herself since I put her in it a week ago. Sorry if I confused you.

Lynn :)

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Guest goldenmom

oh, I forgot to tell you that I'm using a Top Fin 5/15 filter. I'm going to run to the store right now to get some more salt. Is there anything else I should have on hand that I should get tonight? Thanks, again.

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Lynn I combined your threads, it is too confusing for everyone to have mulitple threads going on the same fish problem.

We can help you from this one.

I think it would be a good idea to go thru and list what Margaret's original problem was and why you moved her to the hospital tank.

I agree that the black spots are probably ammonia burns, and the reason they are getting bigger is the ammonia problem you are having.

Test the tap water to make sure it doesn't have ammonia in it.

The fuss can be fungus or a parasite, the best thing for that right now is focusing on "pristine" water conditions.

Answering all the questions at the top again will help since this thread is getting longer, it is hard to go back and re read everything.

Focus on water quality and getting it under control, that is the single most important thing you can do to help her.

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Guest goldenmom

Hi, Laurie,

I'm sorry I started another thread, but I guess I got a little desparate tonight. I just came back from the LFS with AmmoLock, Prime, Melafix, an air stone, and plenty of salt. Okay, my numbers have been the same for about a week now.

PH is about 7.6 - 7.8

Temp.- between 76 and 78

Ammonia - 1.0, then after 25% water change, done daily, . 50 (can't get it below that)

Nitrites - .0

Nitrates - .0

10 gallon tank, 5.15 Top Fin filter

I have a solution of 3TBSP/5gallon of salt.

She originally was lethargic and not eating so I moved her from my pond at the suggestion of the LFS. Brought her in and noticed she had Ich and Fin Rot on her tail. Treated with salt and the Ich went away, then I administered PimaFix for a few days and the Tail Rot seemed much better. She started eating and swimming around normally instead of staying in one place at the top. Then two later, she developed a few of these fuzzy, white spots on her tail and one on her dorsal fin. She also developed black spots on her sides and under her chin. On one side, it looks like there are scales missing, but it doesn't look fuzzy. I feed Wardely's floating pellets (soaked), in the morning and peas in the afternoon. However, she has only had peas for the last 36hrs. because it looked like she was trying to float to the top yesterday. Today that seems resolved. The water just looks dirty even though I change it everyday and add salt to replace what I took out. Should I use the AmmoLoc?? I forgot to mention that I always make sure the temp is almost perfectly matched before I add the new water and use AquaSafe to dechlorinate it. She just doesn't look like she's feeling well and doesn't swim around like she used to. Thanks again, Laurie, I hope this helps.

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Sorry Lynn, i wasnt following the first thread, and I just gathered the 10 gallon with margeret an oranda and a shubie.

From whut I have gathered (some one might allready have posted this now that i see it is a big thread) is that your tank isnt cycling fast enough and your fish is overwhelming it with ammonia.

I do think 50% water change will help, You say you do 25% and it cuts the ammonia by half, well a 50% should take out that ammonia, and more then 50% should knock it down for a bit longer, leave your gravel untouched, as it needs to build up benificial bacteria. (which will be displaced by the extreme over load of water being changed) Eventually, the bacteria should sort itself out and be able to take out the ammonia before it overwhelmes the tank, until then, you have to do it.

As Laurie said, you should focus on pristine water for the moment. Your fish wont get better if her amune system is depressed due to stress and bad water.

I am using AquaSafe to treat my water and was wondering if I still have to let it set for 24hrs?

Whut I would do is go out and get a 5-10 gallon bucket, and put your water in that tonight, treat it , and let it sit with a towel over it (this is to keep things from falling into it) and use it tommorrow for the water change. Then afterwards, fill it up and treat it for the next days water change, ect ect ect. This allows you to always have fresh prestine water, allready at room temperature, handy at all times.

This really comes in handy, and most fish owners do this, as most water these days is treated for human consumption, and all chlorine and junk evaporates over 24 hours.

I wouldnt worry about the heater now, just get that water going good, and the other problems will be alot easier to fix. So dont worry about the heater until all is well in the tank, over medicating and over heating bad water could make the situation worse, not better.

Note on the Fungus: You say the other fish are exibiting sings of cotton fungus as well? It could of been in your pond and now that the fish is in a tank under a stressing situation, she has had an outbreak of it (due to stressed amune systems). The best thing to do would be to find a fungus med. (not sure whut praxi is, lol, i live under a rock, i dont get anything like that up here) So just read the label, it will say. Look for one that says Cotton fungus. I have a 8 dollar bottle of Fungus Eliminator, and its a broad spectrum fungus med, so if i am not sure whut it is, this will more then likely help it (if not heal it) until i can pinpoint ecactly whut it is and work on that.

Best of Luck with Margaret, Lynn! - Meg

PS: Id follow Laurie's advice and make sure theres no amonia in your water, that could be the problem as well as to why you cant get it under control. Never even thought of that one until it was mentioned. Theres a good group of people here at Kokos, lol they taught me whut i know, and i am always learning more!

Edited by Meg_Carroll

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Guest goldenmom

Thanks so much, Meg, I really appreciate your help. I have tested my tap water and it doesn't have any ammonia in it. Do you think I should use some AmmoLoc one time to see if it helps if the 50% change doesn't make it any better? Also, the Prazi I was talking about is used to treat flukes. Margaret was swimming erratically the other day and seemed irritated, so some of the members suggested she might have flukes and to buy some Prazi and treat her with it. I am waiting on that and some Medigold to arrive tomorrow. I will immediately start her on the Medigold and then treat for flukes. If she doesn't have flukes, will it hurt her??? Once again, thanks for your wonderful suggestions, I will take them to heart and start doing that right away.

Lynn :)

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That's ok Lynn we all get "desperate" about our fish, it is just easier for us to follow in one thread........no biggie. ;)

Now I would say that if the other fish are not showing any signs of any of her illnesses then treat her in the 10 gal, but if they are it may be best to treat everyone in the pond. It is harder, but safer for her than in the cycling tank.

Have you tested the tap for ammonia yet???? This is something good to know.

If it comes back 0, then I would back down her feeding. Experts tell us to always feed very light in a cycling tank, because any left over food goes into waste...........then ammonia.

So once a day feeding is best. If she is having "floaty" issues you can alternate peas and flakes on different days. Even fasting her a day here and there is ok.

Prime is a wonderful water conditioner, no need to leave it out all night.

When you do a water change and ammonia is still high then do another. You may have to do them twice daily to keep them under 0.5.

Really only doing this and using salt will help most everything. Many conditions are aggravated by bad water and the fish's own immune system can fight them off in good water............make sense???

Stay with it, I know it is hard, but the water is the most important thing.

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Guest goldenmom

Thanks so much, Laurie. There is no ammonia in my tap water, so I will continue with 50% water changes or may just put her back in the pond as you suggested, as I have seen some of the other fish with these white, fuzzy spots on them. I don't intend to keep her in the tank anyway since it was only purchased as a hospital tank when she stopped eating and swimming around in the pond. The only problem I'm having with my pond is that I find the PH is very high. The rest of the numbers are at .0, and I can't imagine what's going on with the PH. There is a 2TBSP salt/5 gallons in the pond and all the fish seem very happy and are eating and swimming well, but I don't know how this PH would affect Margaret. So, I am going to depend on all of you to tell me what you think I should do, pond or tank until she's well. Thanks again, everyone, you are all wonderful!!!!!!

Lynn:)

Edited by goldenmom

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:) I think that some people are forgetting that both the pond and the ten gal. are NEW Set-ups. Neither one of them have been cycled yet. You will continue to have some Ammonia level,until the Pond/Tank go into the next step of cycling which is Nitrites.By then,your Ammonia will probably be reading 0,and your Nitrites are what you'll be fighting to keep lowered. For tank to cycle,you have to have ammonia that turns into Nitrites,that turn into NitrAtes.By doing water changes daily,you are keeping ammonia from getting out of control.-you want to keep it at a lower number until the next step.All the problems that you're having are probably because you're trying to cycle a ten gal. tank,and a pond with fish in it. The cycling process is extremely hard on fish.You hear alot of people lose fish at this time,and that is why. I personally would continue what you were originally doing.You have the Salt in there,and you're doing 25 % water changes daily to take ammonia from 1 to 0.50.If you want to take that number down a little more then you're going to have to do a litttle bigger water change.Taking 25% out with ammonia at 1 is always going to come back around0.50.Your continuous 25%water changes & testing is showing you that. The white spots on fins are probably a result of this all. if You start adding all these Meds to your tank, what's going to happen is that you're going to kill all the bio-bugs that you have made so far for cycling your tank.Starting over with all new fresh water in the tank will just bring you back to square 1. Cycling a tank is a slow process unless you have bio-bugs from other means. Now don't quote me on this because I'm extremely tired & I have a headache,but I think even though salt helps your fish get through this,it also makes the cycling part slower. All I can tell you is that I'm no expert on cycling a tank.I know that more people lose fish from "New Tank Syndrom",and I know that I've never lost a fish this way. You will know when your tank is finally cycled.Your ammonia & nitrites will be zero,and you will have some Numbers reading on your NitrAtes. By the way,you don't see Ammonia burns until AFTER they start healing.All those Black spots that are showing up where your fish was burned by the ammonia.The black spots are now showing you that those burns are now starting to heal. If I forgot anything ,please ask again.This is a long post,and I have a short memory. :rolleyes: All I can tell you Lynn,is put a seatbelt on and hang in there.Cycling a tank is not fun.It will get uglier before it gets better.The more you are prepared for it,the easier you will handle it. *Finger's crossed.*

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P.S. I don't understand your pond readings...That's a new pond.You are having readings of 0 Ammonia--0Nitrites---0 NitrAtes. When a tank pond goes through the cycling process you see number's for Ammonia/Nitrites. When its done cycling-you see those two reading Zero,and your NitrAtes having some number reading....... :huh::idont

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Guest goldenmom

Thanks so much, Sharon. Do you feel I should go ahead and do the 50% change instead of the 25% I've been doing? I hope your headache gets better, I know they are a real nuisance. I'll go ahead and feed her the Medigold when it gets here in case there is any bacterial infection going on and keep the tank salted. I've been advised to treat her for flukes, also, which I will do to ensure that she doesn't have those either. But I will hold off on the Pimafix and hope that the white fuzzies go away as I get the water under control. Thanks, again, and I appreciate your reply so much.

Lynn :)

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Guest goldenmom

Oh, I forgot to ask. Should I scrape the walls of the tank to try to get the tank to look a little cleaner? It almost looks as if a film is developing as it doesn't look as clear and clean as it did.

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:rolleyes: Personally,when I'm cycling a tank,I don't worry about anything but the water changing.My logic is that the faster it happens the faster the cycle finishes.If there's algae forming onglass that helps the process.If its really bugging you clean the front glass and leave the rest alone, This of course is only my logic. :blink::lol: As for the Fluke Treatment,alot of people tend to treat new fish with a Prazi treatment these days. Just seems like Flukes have really been around alot,or maybe they've always been here only we didn't realize it until now.I would rather be safe than sorry,and would personally go with the treatment for them.Is your fish still doin that weird behavior,or has he stopped since you've stepped up on water changes?Thing is,that you're treating tank with Salt which may help with the flukes,it just may not be enough.

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