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JessicaandMarshall

Black Moor Wedding Center Peices

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Ok, so my SIL emailed me, and asked me if I would mind writing up a page on the care and requirements of Black Moors.

A friend of hers, who is an animal lover and a vet tech (doesn't sound like a fish lover or she wouldn't be doing this!) is having a wedding.

At her wedding, she is having the center pieces, bowls with a Black Moor goldfish in them.

After the wedding, the guests can take their fish with the bowl (UGH) and the rest will go in her 30 gal, or 38 gal (can't remember right now) tank at home.

Part of me feels bad and I think I should write something, the other half of me wants to reply with a scathing flamefest of a note telling her where to stick it. My fish that I love dearly and dote on daily, and slave to take care of are sick and I don't really feel like I have time for this crud. As if anyone will listen to anything I write anyway! As if anything I say will change her mind about her Black Moor centre peices. GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Should I write up a page, or save my breath?

I am having an angry day!

Jessica

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I guess you are having an angry day Jessica! :wall If you really feel strongly about it, you should write the letter, but only when your in the mood. But if you feel as if you shouldn't was your breath on something like this, then don't waste it!! :)

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Since she asked for your opinion I would give it to her. I would go ahead and make up the sheet and post it at every chair.

Is there a way to convince her that what it takes to have these wonderful creatures, she is asking alot of her "guests"??? Maybe suggest that if she really wants to know you can explain it, but to really maintain and keep this "animal" healthy all will need to do what you laid out.

Play on her "tech" emotions. Not all techs are fish wise, or even know anything. But if you put it in a way to compare it to kenneled dogs or cats that sit in small cages pooping on themselves and eating where they "waste" make her see the comparison.

Then offer alternatives. This is the best way to deter her from this endeavor. Ask her what she is going for and offer to sit with her to get it without using "living creatures" to get it.

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OK - so how do I get invited to this wedding - I would love a black moor right now! :ignore

Anyway - All kidding aside - if you think she's doing this no matter what - perhaps you could talk her into bettas (yes yes I know but at least they CAN live in a bowl if someone takes one home & doesn't want to buy a tank et al.) & you could still do info sheets so they don't put a plant in there & think it will feed them & they never have to change the water!

Just a thought...

Anyway, I don't think it is ever a good idea to expect your guests to want a live animal to care for when they are not excepting it!

Good Luck!!!

:D Jenn

Edited by fisharenewtome

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I wrote it, I could not keep my big grumpy mouth shut! I mean, I know everyone starts somewhere, I started with 2 goldfish in a bowl LOL, but as soon as I knew better, I fixed that, and that's what matters. I am willing to help anyone that honestly wants to learn.

However this woman did not write me, my SIL did, my SIL is going to give her the info. As far as I know, the woman did not request any info, but my SIL knows better than to keep fish in a bowl, which is why she asked I suppose.

So here is what I wrote, I know I probably forgot a lot, but it was only supposed to be a page, kind of hard to fit that much stuff into a page....

So sorry I haven't written sooner, I've been very busy, it was nice to see you and Brian as well =o) I almost didn't bother writing this, because the idea of having live fish at a wedding, like they are inanimate decoration infuriates me, but here it is, for what it's worth, at least your friend can't say she wasn't warned.

Goldfish can live for 20-30 years when taken care of properly, the oldest Goldie on record lived to be 42 years of age. That is a far cry from the 1 year that most people think that they should live.

Goldfish are very messy fish. Through respiration they release ammonia into the water. Ammonia is also released into the water via their excrement. This ammonia rises to a toxic level very quickly, which is why 1) goldfish need strong filtration, the filter should turn the water over ideally at least 10 times per hour, 2) 10 gallons per fish, 3) a cycled tank.

To cycle your tank, you will need test kits. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH are the bare minimums. You will also need a lot of water conditioner because you are going to be doing a lot of water changes every day over the next two months, and probably even longer than that if you have overstocked your tank.

Around day 4-7 of having your fish in your tank, your ammonia level is going to start rising rapidly. You need to do daily water changes and test your water daily to make sure you keep that level below 1.0

The nitrites will kick in around day 10. In lay terms the "nitrite" bacteria is converting the ammonia into nitrites. You need to keep doing daily water changes to keep the nitrite under 1.0. If you let it get very high, you'll get flashing, ulcers, fin rot, ich, sudden death etc. Most newbies lose their fish to new tank syndrome, don't let this happen to you! Aquarium salt can be added to aid with nitrite toxicity. Add 1.5 tablespoons of Aquarium Salt or Coarse salt with no additives per 5 gallons of water. You cannot use regular table salt, because most has anti-caking agents, which will kill your fish.

After about day 20, nitrates will appear. Once your ammonia is 0, your nitrite is 0, and you have nitrates, you have cycled your tank. Now you need to do weekly water changes/gravel vacuums of about 40% or so, unless you are overstocked, then you will need to change the water several times per week, to keep your ammonia and nitrite at 0.

I do not recommend nor endorse keeping goldfish in bowls for any reason, or for any length of time. Bowls are very stressful, goldfish release a growth inhibiting hormone into the water. This not only stunts their growth, but their internal organs as well, which in turn, significantly shortens their life span. (Which is why you rarely hear of fish in bowls living for more than a year!) It also weakens their immune systems leaving them open to bacterial and parasitic attack. I liken it to leaving a large breed puppy in a too small crate 24/7 to sit in it's own waste and see how well the puppy grows/turns out. It's beyond cruel, and as a lover of all animals, including fish, I had to say that.

They should eat presoaked sinking pellets, and be warned that moors are susceptible to cataracts and blindness and most do go blind, and end up needing special help (such as hand feeding) to ensure that they get enough to eat.

They grow between 8-12" in aquariums, and when full grown will need more than 10 gals per fish.

I strongly recommend that your friend rethink this, and use those beautiful glass beads in the bowls with those glass fish that you can buy at Big Al's. If she is dead set on having live fish, a bowl fish would be more appropriate than a gold fish.

I also hope that any guests taking these fish home are aware that they should not be kept in a bowl and advised of their proper care.

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I think your response is very informative and clear. I also think it was good that you suggested an alternative with the glass fish as decoration instead of the live fish.

My main concern for animals in that sort of situation is exposing them to people who dont consider fish as real animals, and when you add alcohol to the mix, the fish are more than likley going to be victims of cruel entertainment for the guests. I used to work for a wedding reception centre and the thought of leaving these poor creatures at the hands of drunks makes me feel ill. :(

I hope that this person reconsiders using live fish as decoration and take your advice seriously :huh:

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Good reply, Jessica, and very clear! There are alternatives for animal lovers, as you suggest. If she must have a bowl, i have to admit my sister Deirdre got her Rubeus at our cousin's wedding in May, and he is alive and healthy to this day - still in about a 1 and 1/2 gallon bowl; the centerpiece was a gallon bowl with a peace lily. Not ideal, but a lot better than a goldfish - and, if you care for them properly, some bettas do actually seem to thrive in bowls. Rubeus is the healthiest and liveliest fish we've had so far; he had a touch of finrot after Deirdre got him, but nothing like the problems Gilbert and Poly and poor little Pippin have struggled with.

Another thing my cousin did, which is nice for an animal lover, is to leave a note at every guest's place explaining that, instead of the usual favors, the bride and her husband had donated to the heiffer project. Maybe the bride in this case could do something similar? Perhaps one of those deals where you can adopt a whale or wolf or maybe a donation to a no-kill shelter?

in any case, it's very good that you wrote the letter you did. Black moors, too! They are such lovely creatures! I can't imagine seeing them abused this way at a wedding.

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why dont hey just put puppies in bowls and send them home... (being sarcastic) anywho, I love your article!

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I agree totally with Selena. Animals and alcohol do not mix.

Odds on there will be food tossed into their bowl 'to see if they'll eat it'. Even worse, somebody may think it hilarious to pour alcohol in. Maybe the bowls will just accidently be knocked over if the table is bumped. Most of all, I don't even want to contemplate a bunch of drunken guys at a wedding daring each other to swallow a live goldfish.

Time for an anonymous tip-off to the ASPCA for a raid by inspectors during the reception, I think! Do you have those there? Actually, no need even to call them. Just let her know you WILL call the ASPCA if she decides to go ahead with it.

Besides, how many guests will have a tank at home for the fish? Or will even be prepared to buy one and set it up? So she will most likely have to keep all the fish herself anyway (those that survive the night of revelry anyway). But she'll be off on her honeymoon, won't she?

Things like this just reinforce to me that so many people see animals as nothing more than short-term entertainment, or accessories.

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ooooh....all this talk about black moors is making me miss Ozzy. He passed a few days ago because of my friends evil Ryukin that I'm fostering until she gets back from spain. I found him in the morning with more than 3/4 of his scales plucked off.... poor Ozzy. :cry1

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I went to a wedding where everyone was given a tree (about 10" tall). Not all of these trees were taken home, I guess not everyone has a garden but a small potted flowering plant like African Violet would be a nice alternative.

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I think that what you did was the best Jessica. I'm sure that she can make an informed decision now of if she should do this. Besides, do you really think that she'll want to keep all of those moors who aren't taken home as now she knows the requirements of keeping them? I mean what if she ends up with 30 or 40 moors??? :rolleyes:

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I'm going to be a bit outspoken here and say that this woman has no earthly right to exploit the charm and beauty of such a heavenly creature for the sake of imbellishing her centerpeices. This is a number of travesties just waiting to happen. :(

Since it seems that you have no pull with this woman personally, the best you can do is get your SIL to discourage this altogether. The next best thing you could do is what you have started already.

I know this is her "big day" and all but, these are living breathing animals we're talking about here. Buying a bunch of fish and expecting your guests to adopt them all (or cramm them all into a little tank at home) is not only asking too much, it's quite tacky.

Here's a few tips for her:

Lids for these bowls will be a must (alcohol and fish?????)

Feeding will be out of the question in the bowls

Ammo-lock should be utilized while the goldies are in the bowls

Adoptions for any remaining moors should be attempted through local fish shops and screening to make sure they are going to a tank and not a bowl is a good idea.

If this woman is thoughtful and careful enough, this could possibly go over well, But it's going to take some care to do it. Hopefully you and your SIL will be able to instil a sense of urgency in her to do whats best for these babies she will responsible for........... :unsure:

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Jessica, your letter is perfect and it comes out loud and clear that using live fish as wedding favors is a very bad idea. Anytime a live creature is given away to people who aren't prepared to give the proper care, it will have disasterous results.

Everyone knows about the unwanted bunnies and chicks that are given as gifts at easter that are so "cute" at first but abandoned since it does take knowledge, time and $$ to care for them.

She is a vet tech and should be more aware. It shows that most people do not consider the life of a fish to be important. :huh:

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Jessica what you wrote was very informative and lengthy hopfully that will show all that is needing in taking this "stupid endeavor" on.

Please keep us posted as to what happens, I pray you made a difference.

On a side note, until the last few months on this site, I had never heard of such a thing at a wedding. Does anyone know how this trend started????

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Laurie- Im guessing it started with betta fish and since most people belive that goldies could live in a bowl... then they decided goldfish would also be nice... im not so sure.

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Yeah I was figuring that it started with bettas, but at some point a someone started the fade on using fish as decoration, I was wondering about this.

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My main concern for animals in that sort of situation is exposing them to people who dont consider fish as real animals, and when you add alcohol to the mix, the fish are more than likley going to be victims of cruel entertainment for the guests.

A friends b/f (Ti) once ate a betta when he was drunk. He chased it around its little 2 gal than threw it agianst the wall a few time than slirped it down. All of us were yelling at him to stop. He did this becuase the owner left the poor guy there and Ti was angry cuz he was owed money. I can't even explain how heart-wrenching it was to watch.

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Years ago, my cousin's wedding had goldfish, as in fantials in bowls on the tables. My mom and I were furious, but it was my cousin's snooty wife who ordered them. Like you said, food got thrown in there, and the bowls got picked up and shook. I didn't witness any alcohol getting dumped in, but I'm sure it happened. I find it discusting that people would do this. Even if they don't know anything about fish, they should at *least* have the common sense to know that these things will happen to the fish. <_<

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I hope your SIL friend comes to her senses. Exploiting animals like that is greedy and self-centered. :angry:

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This is a sick fad, but I think it will pass...

I'm a musician, and play lots of wedding receptions. I have seen a real rise in the "goldfish in bowl as centerpiece" decorations. Have played at three such events in the past month. NO fish survived to the end of the reception, not because of mistreatment, but because no one even knew they needed dechlorinated water. :cry1 At all of these receptions, the guests were upset and disgusted at the dead fish floating at their tables. I think wedding planners will quickly learn this dosen't work.

Robin

ps.. at all 3 events I offered to take any fish alive off their hands, but none of them made it. :(

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At all of these receptions, the guests were upset and disgusted at the dead fish floating at their tables.

Thanks Robin. That is probably the most effective argument to convince her not to go ahead with it.

If the interests of the fish don't count with her, then perhaps what's in her own interest and what people will think of her and her wedding will.

It will only take one fish dying at one table for the majority of the people sitting at that particular table to become upset. Is she prepared to risk just one dying? And if every fish on every table dies...

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Guest sourmilknightmares

I was at a wedding where some fantails were used as centerpieces for the the tables where the people of honor were supposed to sit. My best friend was at the wedding rehearsals the previous night and she said that they had floating candles in the bowl...and the candles were light. She accidently bumped into the bowl and the glass was hot, on top of that the fish were gasping at the surface. She couldn't do much, but she did go around and blow out all of the candles. They had 3 goldfish in less than a gallon of water. I didn't know anything about goldfish then but wanted to take one home, but instead the groom two younger (much younger...like 7 and 10) siblings took home all the fish. They kept them in the bowl and the fish died the next day. Terrible thing.

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I don't disagree with "young" people having pets(as I am considered young but many), but I think that a responsible person should make sure the pets are well taken care of. It seems odd to me that most living creatures in this world are watched out for(exstinction and such) except fish. How many national geographics are made on fish(not including migrating salmon)? And how many serious books and vidoes are made on how to PROPERLY take care of goldies? I really think that a book should be made up of all the info on Kokos. :Kokos Guide to Healthy living for Goldfish :huh: Cha Ching! :D Good way to keep the site running.

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