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SGcvn69

Fungal Treatment?

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What's a good fungal treatment? I have a bottle of Mardel, but it doesn't seem to be working...might be kind of old. 

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Are you sure you’re treating fungus?  It’s actually pretty rare in aquaria, oftentimes white patches or fin degradation is something else.  Topical maladies, including fungus, I like to hit with methylene blue.  Only if it is very, very stubborn and true saprolegnia do I break out liquid acryflavine, which is a heavy duty antiseptic and antifungal.

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Well it looks like it possibly is on my black ranchu. He has some white-ish stuff on him. I think he had some ich too, which is now gone. I put salt in the water. I think I may have methelyene blue somewhere. Never had much luck with that stuff though. The oranda is harder to tell, but his tail has some blood vessels that are kind of prominent. I did a 50% water change last night and added more salt and Mardel fungal. Seemed to almost go away and come back. 

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Okay that’s multiple things going on, your best bet for us sorting it out is to fill out the diagnostic form and attach pictures, and with those details I can help you narrow down a treatment plan.  
 

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank)

* Nitrite Level(Tank)

* Nitrate level(Tank)

* Ammonia Level(Tap)

* Nitrite Level(Tap)

* Nitrate level(Tap)

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

* Water temperature?

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

* How often do you change the water and how much?

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

* How many fish in the tank and their size?

* What kind of water additives or conditioners?

* What do you feed your fish and how often?

* Any new fish added to the tank?

* Any medications added to the tank?

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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Weird. I didn’t realize you replied! Here’s a pic. Will get you the rest of the info later

2B061A32-2AA6-4410-9DC3-4790FE5DD4D6.jpeg

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ACK!  What happened?!  That is so far from normal, and definitely not just fungus. We can try to help him but I need the form and ALL the history and tank details, as well as a closeup of him under very bright light.  It is harder to do with a dark fish but I find holding them against the glass with my hand and taking a flash photo can help.  I need to see really in depth detail of the spots.

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I don't know! I think the black Ranchu brought it in. I know it had ich at one point, but that seems to be ok. It's harder to tell on the Oranda because it is mostly white, but its tail is all veiny like high ammonia so it is obviously stressed. The Oranda seems more listless and the Ranchu floats more, but he is at least wiggling around. They're still in quarantine thankfully! I'll try to get a better pic, but it maybe tough. I'll turn off the sponge filter. It'll probably help get a clearer pic. I'm feeding them 1 to 2 times a day. We have salt and Mardel antifungal so far. 

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Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0.25ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0ppm

* Nitrate level(Tank) 0ppm

* Ammonia Level(Tap) Sterilizing tunes to take tap water

* Nitrite Level(Tap)

* Nitrate level(Tap)

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  8

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

* Water temperature? 58F

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 5 gal quarantine tank...been a few months

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Sponge

* How often do you change the water and how much? Usually 50% once to twice a week. Recently every other day.

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Changed it after taking the above readings, 90%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 2, 1” long without tail

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime & Mardel Maracyn Oxy & salt

* What do you feed your fish and how often? New Life Spectrum Thera+, Live brine shrimp, frozen bloodworms, frozen mysis shrimp, frozen brine, romaine

* Any new fish added to the tank? Yes, Black Ranchu

* Any medications added to the tank? See above

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. See above. At every water change. Been treating for about a week or so?

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Yes, grains of sat, white patches, red tails

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Yes, Oranda staying on bottom more. 

41E1AC90-CE7D-4661-B0EB-CA84074CBDDB.jpeg

98151DBB-5C50-4201-8F47-EEA556C7017D.jpeg

EE89A8B8-1665-4B44-AB99-F0A8ACC13344.jpeg

0B63FDCF-3B28-4D11-9287-980701441384.jpeg

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Tap water tested exactly like tank water

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Okay, how long have you had the fish and what source did you get them from?  Is the water actually 58f?  If so, why?  Are you still feeding them?

I’m confused about the set up here, and what their exposures might be.  Can you give me the backstory from when you purchased or bred them until today, and what sources may have been disease vectors? Any plants, livestock, or live food could have brought something in if it’s come in within the last two months.

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15 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Okay, how long have you had the fish and what source did you get them from?  Is the water actually 58f?  If so, why?  Are you still feeding them?

I’m confused about the set up here, and what their exposures might be.  Can you give me the backstory from when you purchased or bred them until today, and what sources may have been disease vectors? Any plants, livestock, or live food could have brought something in if it’s come in within the last two months.

I can't remember how long I have had them. The black one is new. That one was from a LFS and the Oranda is from Petco. Yes, the water is that cold. They're in my basement. I'm feeding them a little less now in case it is overfeeding being the cause. There is one Java Fern in there, but that is from my established tank. Only live food is live brine shrimp. Otherwise they got frozen bloodworms, frozen brine shrimp, frozen mysis shrimp. 

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Okay, they would really benefit from a heater.  Fancies, including ranchu and orandas, really do best in the 70-73 degree range.  Lower and they weaken and become susceptible to disease. 
 

The food type doesn’t seem to be a vector for disease, but the quantity could be an issue at those temps.  Their metabolisms down regulate with cold temps and feeding could cause enough stress to possibly weaken them.

If they’re both about an inch, I can’t imagine either is over a year old.  Have you had the orange and white one more than three months, even if you cannot remember the source?  I’m trying to figure out if that one had a dormant parasite or virus that became active under stress.

Was the black one quarantined before you mixed them? For how long and how did it go? Any treatments during that time you may have not listed?

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Hmm...ok did not know they liked it that warm! I don't think I have had the orange and white one for three months. Maybe a month more? Figured it was still in quarantine so I just put the new black one in with it. I didn't treat them with anything prior to seeing symptoms. I did switch to a ich treatment b/c it also has fungal treatment also. Will have to see if I can dig out a heater in my aquarium supply container! It would help the ich hatch out faster anyway so the meds can kill them! 

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So you have to restart your quarantine every time you add an animal, so it’s six weeks, minimum, since the black was added.

Don’t begin any treatments please, if you’ve concluded the previous batch.  I can’t help your if you’re doing things actively while I’m trying to give advice, oftentimes it conflicts and some of the treatments can even be dangerous together.

Have you read our basic starter guides on goldfish care?  Those address things like quarantine and temperature :) 

They don’t have fungus going on, which is why I needed pictures - the ich is there because of adding in the new fish, I think.  That is excess slime coat, either due to water conditions, a parasite, or both.  Tell me EXACTLY what you added, how much, and what days.  Specifically.  And if the temperature has been raised yet or not.

 

We are going to proceed this way:

1) finish out the current treatment if you are in the middle of it.

2) gradually increase the temperature over a few days.

3) take out any filter media or tank ornaments if it is in the quarantine.  We want heater, thermometer, air stone or empty filter (no media, just for water circulation), and fish.  That’s it.

4) Give the fish two days at the warmer temp and see if the slime coat shedding improves on its own.  If not, we will begin salt dips.  You will tell me BEFORE we begin though so we can assess if another treatment is needed :) I want to hear and see everything so I can help your fish and we can avoid unneeded treatments if the fish are improving or their condition changes.

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Yeah I know about the quarantine restart. 

I haven't put the heater in as I just read your post this morning from work. All the tank has is a sponge filter so it has plenty of aeration also. I switched to the ich treatment three days ago. Did the 50% water change yesterday. They seem to feel better somewhat. 

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Okay that’s a good start, is the sponge filter new or seeded from an existing tank?

You can dig out your heater and start gradually warming them up.  Maybe a degree every two hours or so until they get to 73-75, and we can see how they’re oxygenating from there.

Keep an eye on your ammonia during the treatment.  How many days do you have left of the course, 6-7?

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It's been running for a couple of months so the filter should be good! I have two more treatments of the ich stuff. Next change and dose is Wednesday and then Saturday. I've been feeding them only once a day since. 

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Temp now after 14 hrs is 73 degrees. They look more active and less white stuff on the black ranchu

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Okay continue on, and continue your Mardel treatment for three days after the last spot is gone.  It looks like you’re moving in the right direction.

I do think a salt dip today and tomorrow evening is a good idea to slough off the remaining slime coat and help the treatment be more effective. You’d just scoop them out of the tank for the dip, then pop them back in when you’re done with the treatment.

https://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Saltbath.html

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I'm going to have to see if I even have that much salt on hand! LOL! Can I reuse the saltwater for the subsequent dips? Will be hard to match temps....maybe better to use some tank water and replace what I take out instead. 

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Just boil and cool it down.  And make sure it is kosher salt, aquarium salt, or pickling/rock salt, nothing with any additives - just sodium chloride.

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I have kosher salt! Just didn't think I had enough aquarium salt! 

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Oh yeah pure kosher is fine :)

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Didn’t even get to the salt bath! Looks 100% better already! 

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Okay that’s great news!

I’d still recommend doing one or two evenings of it unless you see zero symptoms, just to help slough off their some coats and make sure all the ich tomites are hatched out.  Then continue on with clean, warm water and they should be happier.  The cold really isn’t good for fancies, they’re more delicate and it lowers their immune systems :)

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