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Googles not eating

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Test Results for the Following:

 Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

 Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

 Nitrate level(Tank) high (has been high for a decade)

 Ammonia Level(Tap) 0

 Nitrite Level(Tap) 0

 Nitrate level(Tap) 40

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Drops

 Water temperature? 20 C

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 100 litres. Since 2012

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 1800 lph

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday. 100%

 How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 

 What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime

 What do you feed your fish and how often? Usually twice per day day. I changed to once per day recently as I ran out of Repashy

 Any new fish added to the tank? No

 Any medications added to the tank? No

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

no treatment necessary for a number of years. 

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? He’s had a white tumour looking growth on his back for a few years now

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He’s been a bottom sitter since 2012

 

Hi there,

My telescope goldfish has recently had his 10th birthday.

He’s been a permanent bottom sitter since 2012.

He looks the same as he always does. Fins are in good condition considering his disability. No sign of dropsy.

He’s had a growth on his back for a few years which I didn’t want to interfere with because of his age.

The only thing different is his complete lack of interest in food. He’s not eaten for over a week now.

I suspect old age, but don’t want to miss anything obvious.

If he doesn’t eat soon then he’ll die of starvation. Do I euthanise or let him fade on his own? 
 

Thanks

P.S. The nitrate levels are not up for discussion. I’ve been a member of this forum for a long time and have explored all doable options on here already 


 

 

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Ha, I remember some of the nitrate drama.  I’m glad he is doing so well considering your crappy water source. I really think some are just way more sensitive to nitrate and the big swings than persistent but stable levels 😆

Did the refusal time eat start after the repashy ran out or are those not at all coincided? That’s all I can think of, diet change not making him happy.  Can he be induced to eat with blood worms or garlic soaked food?

Honestly I’d suspect old age too, especially if you see no change in activity or clamping, no extra fin degradation, etc.  I’d be okay letting him go on his own if he seems otherwise comfortable, but it’s really your call.  I’m not seeing anything that would explain it.

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Also, is he still pooping at all or has that pretty much ended at this point? Sometimes they will hang on for a long time grazing on algae and plants even when fish food isn’t interesting, so that might potentially be something if he is showing any interest in his environment still?

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Hi Taryl :)

thanks for your reply.

I forgot to mention that his diet didn’t completely change, I continued with feeding him Hikari pellets still.

It’s really difficult to know if it coincided with the repashy running out but he definitely got stringy poops about a month ago when I stopped feeding it (which have now stopped but there’s no sign of any poop at all now)

My own health took a dip recently and I started feeding him at 3am at the same time of no Repashy. He didn’t rush to the food as usual but I assumed that’s because he was asleep. I used to check on him a bit later and saw him active amongst the food so I assumed he was eating and then I’d try and get myself to bed.

It makes me wonder if this has gone on longer than a 1-2 weeks 😕

To be honest, I’m being pretty hard on myself. I’m worried that’s it’s not old age but because I wasn’t well enough to make a new Repashy batch soon enough or because I stopped feeding him at a proper time in the day.

I’ve tried him with peas (his favourite) but still nothing. My partner tried him with a tiny bit of orange yesterday but still nothing. I haven’t tried the garlic bloodworm trick yet though

Yesterday I picked him up to gently use him like a vaccum cleaner (!) as this is what I used to do years ago to help him eat when he was recovery from severe dropsy. I did that a few times actually until he could eat on his own. It hasn’t worked this time though. He accidently inhaled a pellet but he breathed it back out a few moments later.

There is no fin clamping but he’s not moving/wriggling much, which is another thing I forgot to mention. Plants don’t grow in my tank (I’ve tried and tried) and it’s pretty algae free so he’s got no other food source.

He’s completely blind and very clumsy so I have a very empty tank to maximise his floor space reduce the risk of him getting trapped in bizarre places.

I just want to do the right thing for him, you know?
And just hope it’s not because of something I did :(

 

 

 

Edited by Black

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Oh no I don’t think it’s anything you caused.  He might have been fussy with the diet change but if he had the hikari the whole time and just recently stopped eating it I’d say that points to something else being the issue.

I’d give the bloodworms as a last ditch effort, but I really don’t think throwing anything else at this makes sense with what you describe.  He just doesn’t have enough other symptoms to make an actual acute infection of some sort make much sense.  

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I just did another water change (80-90%)

I looked at him from above in very shallow water and I can actually detect some raised scales. 
He repeatedly got dropsy years ago and since then his scales have never laid completely flat, but now they do seem more raised than usual. It’s not obvious, but from above I can just about detect it.

To make sure I also felt him carefully and I can feel a slight pricklyness :(

He’s not needed meds or any treatment for years. I recently cleaned up my fish cupboard and have just thrown out a lot of medications as they were all out of date so I literally have nothing now.

The last time I treated dropsy Metromeds were in existence.

What should my next step be? I feel pretty lost, it’s been so long since I’ve had to deal with illness

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Well, my standard dropsy treatment is metro + kanamycin or metro + ocytetracycline for two weeks in warm, clean water. The kanamycin is harder on the organs but still generally fairly safe.

If you think you’re dealing with organ failure with  his age, though, I’d be tempted to go on to Angels Plus and buy the oxy instead. And honestly I give it a 30% chance the meds work simply because he is older, weakened from not eating, and there isn’t an environmental cause whereby aeromonas or a similar bacteria could have taken hold.

But I know you want to try, so that’s what I’d do. Ten gallon hospital tank with an air stone, warm (78-82 degrees if he can tolerate it), and do a 100% water change and redose the meds each evening to keep things as clean as possible and his stress very, very low.

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Thanks Taryl.

I don’t feel I’m well enough to tackle it but if I don’t, I’m not sure I’d forgive myself.

I looked on Angels Plus, do you know if I can get the metro and oxy from somewhere in the UK? I’m just worried it will take too long to get here.

Also, my hospital tank broke, but he’s in a 27gal on his own. Shall I just lower the water level?

I think my heater is also playing up, so that’s something else to stress about.

I wonder if the temperature dropping slightly  triggered the dropsy.

How do you know I don’t have areomonas? I hope it isn’t the environment 

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Ok, at 6am (having not yet been to bed) I was in the bathroom and heard a weird noise.

Then I hear what sounds like a waterfall... in the house.

Hands covered in moisturiser, I run downstairs. Water everywhere. The tank decided to crack at the base.

Googs is now in a 40 litre tub. No filter, no heater.

 

It’s nearly 8am now and need to get to bed.

Just realised I haven’t saved the filter media. I don’t know how long the cycle can survive without water.

No idea what to do at this point.

Glad I was awake though. I could have woken up to an empty tank, a dead fish and 100 litres of water on the floor. 

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Omg Charlie that's awful :( If the media doesn't dry out completely at least some of the good bacteria should survive.. I'm so sorry

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Well, in terms of bacterial blooms, did you skip filter maintenance or have any nitrate spikes? From your data it just sounded like a diet change, but if your routine got lax that could be a possible cause.  You haven’t provided any pictures and I’m not there, so there is only so much I can guess at based on history and what is reported here.

I’m not sure what the fastest med source for you is, maybe eBay? It sounds like treatment isn’t something you have the energy or time for now, though. Big boo on the tank cracking, that’s a terrible mess when it happens and very stressful :(

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Thank you both.

Due to my own ill health, I’ve had to halve the amount of water changes over the past few years (not ideal I know), but I’d always gently squeeze/rinse the filter media every 6 weeks or so.

I’ve looked on eBay but don’t really know what I’m buying.

i can only find the tablet form. How would I use that?

13890913-020B-4BAA-92DF-3CE631311B25.thumb.png.00c564b135972b250dd995bff6d29ecc.png
 

This is his current set up. The tub is about 10gal. He had 2 filters in his main tank. I kept a little one in there for emergencies and that’s the one I’ve carried across until I figure out what to do.

8ED06B38-9EB3-44C6-B266-DE8C4E27B351.thumb.jpeg.bf5d82d6ea586a731edbd031426a5377.jpeg

00E520FD-DEAE-4AC6-9788-4DE4883A7B6C.thumb.jpeg.de9bce0d7314aad4237543c94fba8696.jpeg
 

This was the tank 6 months ago. I re-bought the exact same tank in April of this year as the previous one was getting scratched and shabby from having it for so long. Wish I hadn’t now! I transferred all the media over from the old tank to the new tank and there was no cycle bump at all.

7D20EF6E-62E0-4A54-92B0-1FCDC645A7E6.thumb.jpeg.98fa7725f6c1914174b9a85332089958.jpeg3D776662-61A8-4950-87FA-723B98D369AD.thumb.jpeg.98a99426acd9d4652055b285691df3a7.jpeg
 

This was him 6 weeks ago, very wriggly and happy and enjoying food. 
His dorsal has always been folded over like that and his fins haven’t changed condition for years.21D0B26E-E861-47D3-AAF2-DD1ECE3D2597.thumb.jpeg.209ab422fea9c932c450ef5708816809.jpeg

8DDD13DA-0534-4E6C-90E5-D9C9F85BBA3E.thumb.jpeg.742f9474886b73c2a3df416529bc2000.jpeg

I took this pic below yesterday during the water change (before the tank cracked) to try and show his scales but it’s not very clear, sorry.

Yes, he’s missing a pelvic fin! I got admitted to hospital last year and when I returned it had gone :idont Completely clean break. It really upset me at the time. I kept an eye on it but there was nothing to really heal. Just a tiny little smooth stump. 

4ACB4DF0-C92F-49A0-8FD7-94EC634BCFFC.thumb.jpeg.a8b5d60eb5ca2d2f912ca182896743b9.jpeg

 

Edited by Black

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We would order and dissolve it in water, based on the tank volume of wherever you end up treating him.  I can calculate the amount per liter once you get it.

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I think I’m going to use the 10gal red tub as his hospital tank. If he survives, I’ll get another new tank.

Shall I purchase metronidazole tablets as well?

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Yes, you want both since we don’t know precisely what is going on - one gram positive and antiparasitic and one gram negative, and broader spectrum.

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👍🏻
 

I have to have an online consultation for my ‘acne’ in order to purchase the oxy 

I can’t do it right now, I have to go :(

I’m also busy over the next 2 days with medical appointments.

 

I think he’s currently comfortable. I’m torn between fighting for his life and leaving him to fade on his own. I just don’t know what to do 

 

 

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Well I’d have euthanized him years ago, you’ve given him a great life even with his various disabilities, and it’s really your call.  But if you cannot manage treatment and he looks worse then I’d say euthanizing is probably better at this point, since dropsy has set in and that is painful for the animal.  
 

Nobody can make that choice for you, though.  Let me know if you need tablet dosages, otherwise I will leave this here.  Hugs and best wishes!

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Could someone please send me to the link to Helen’s euthanasia video she made a while ago? 
I can’t seem to find it. I hope it’s still available to watch 

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Here is the thread and video, most of her vids live under the ‘Treatments’ sub forum of this disease forum :)

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Thanks Taryl. I was looking in the video and article section

I think I’ll be doing it tomorrow.

I’m unsure of both the sedation dosage and the euthanise dosage for a fish of his size. I think he was around 90g last year before he lost his pelvic fin. 

I can weigh him again if necessary 

 

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Honestly I don’t weigh or measure, I watch them carefully.  Measuring is more important for surgery than euthanizing. I usually start with 1/2 teaspoon clove oil in a gallon of water and swirl it around.  I add the animal and wait until they go still and their breathing looks a bit slowed down.  Then I add another 1/2 teaspoon of the clove oil and wait until I see no movement at all, about five more minutes.  I’d they’re still moving after 5 minutes in the little clove oil water bucket I add another 1/2 teaspoon, and continue in that fashion until I see zero movement.

Then I leave them for half an hour to make sure all brain function has ceased. Oftentimies when they’re not moving their gills they are still ‘there’, just numb and with depressed respiration, so time is what helps them pass after that point.  It’s very gentle but takes a little time.

I’m sorry, I know it’s so hard to talk about when it’s a beloved friend :( Sometimes it’s the best choice though, especially if they’re not doing well and you don’t have the energy or ability to help alleviate it beyond What you’ve already done.

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I’ve just seen your reply.

I was about to ask whether I’d be crazy to buy this medicated food and syringe feed him?

https://angelsplus.com/collections/fish-medications/products/medicated-antibiotic-flakes

I’ve syringe fed him before but that was with metromeds.

I know you can’t tell me what to do. I’m just finding it difficult because unlike before, he’s moving etc (albeit not eating).

Its hard for me to jump from no treatment attempts straight to euthanasia.

But I also want to do what’s best for him.

i noticed on one of my old dropsy threads (“nitrates in tap water to high” )that Epsom salt was recommended.

ugh, I just don’t know ☹️☹️☹️

 

 

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I’m researching euthanasia and treatment options simultaneously.

I’m obviously finding it hard to pick an option. 

He doesn’t even have a tank anymore and my partner has just accidentally broken the air pump  

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Angels Plus have just confirmed they don’t ship to the UK anyway

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He’s passed.

With help

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