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LiquidOxygen

White spots and tail/fin fraying

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Hi All!

 I haven't posted anything on Kokos in 4 years. I have however visited and use this site like an encyclopedia. Thank you! They've had no illnesses in almost 4 years. I did lose my blackmoor and calico telescope 2 years ago. I have 3 fish who are about 4 1/2 -5 yrs. old now. 1 Lionhead Oranda (Pete), 1 Fantail (Happy) and 1 Ryunkin (Lake). 

Here's what's going on. It all began after a power outage for 7 hours. I placed all the media in buckets. Added battery powered air pump. Once the electric came on I did a 50% water change. 

  All three of my Goldies have sporadic flat white spots on their fins and Caudal fins and Dorsal fins. Not just their Caudal Lobes. They also have some fraying. My Fantail (Happy), also has redness between his eye and gill on his right side of his face. He has what looks like bleeding down one of his caudal lobes on his Pelvic fin and where it touches the body. I researched for days and what I found showed what looked like to me as external Flukes. They've received the 1st treatment of Liquid PrazPro 4 days ago. Within one day everyone looked worse. My Lionhead Oranda (Pete), had just a few white spot before, some fraying and a nicely regrowth of his Caudal Fin. Happy tore it while going for a piece of gel food. Pete now has the white spots everywhere on his fins. The other 2 have even more white spots as well. I just finished a 70% water change today and added Activated Carbon. I always match temperature and pH. They swim and feed normally. I'm at a loss on what is their illness and how to treat them. 

** The 1st four pictures are Fantail (Happy). The 

1.) White Spots: Is it Fluke scares or Ich?  2.) How should I treat the fraying?  3.) How do I treat the dark red area near where Happy's pelvic fin meets body?  4.) How do I treat the pink/red streak down his Caudal Lobe?

Thank you for your help in advance. 

 

 

 

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) -0-

* Nitrite Level(Tank) -0-

* Nitrate level(Tank) 5.0 ppm

* Ammonia Level(Tap) 0.25 ppm - 0.50 ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tap) -0-

* Nitrate level(Tap) -0-

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6 

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API liquid test

* Water temperature? 73.7 (Infrared Thermometer Laser)

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 90 gallon, 4 feet, 4 years

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Fluvol 406 canister and Wet/Dry Sump

 

happy4.JPG

Happy-Oct-3-2019.JPG

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Here are more pictures. 1st.) Happy  2.) Lake  3rd.) Pete :-) 

happyred-2.JPG

LP-whitespot1.JPG

peteWhitespot.JPG

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red fins white dots like that remind me of a bacterial problem to me. When the power came on did you take the water out of the filters? If not that could be part of the problem. The water didn't go bad, but it might have started to and if the water isn't dumped out, it went into the tank. :(

I know this might sound weird but it worked for me. My fish Zac got something very closing looking to your fish. 

It started when I ran out of her Wondershell and I didn't clean my sponge filter out when I should have. So my tank was getting out of balance. I had did the salt route and and my prime but she still had white smears like dots on her belly fins and starting to get red streaks on her tail fin.

Once my Wondershells came a week later, I placed it in the tank and had also cleaned my sponge filter and other filters.......then with in about 48 hours her spots where gone and with in a week the red streak was gone too.

So I may suggest a Wondershell also colloidal silver

 

 

s-l1000.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

ultra-colloidal-silver-4-oz-by-source-na

you can find it in the health area in the stores now. It seems to me that your ph drops a little and you might have some bacterial problems. the colloidal silver will kill that off but it won't hurt the fish at all. add about a 1/2 dropper if it in the tank. :)

 

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Thank you for your reply and recommendations on treatment koko! 

When the power was out I didn't change the water in the tank that night or in the sump. I knew I had to, so it was the 1st thing I did the next morning.  I  had enough water on hand to do a 50% water change. I could tell they weren't acting in their usual spunky way throughout the day. Just at feeding time. I knew they were stressed. Within the next few days these small white spots showed up, with the beginning of the fraying, just a few on two of the fish. I tested the water and the nitrates were up to 40 ppm. They are sensitive to any nitrates in the water. So that's when I started doing small daily water changes trying to bring the tank to -0- nitrates.  The spots and fraying spread.  I bought more water.  I put my goldies in the hospital tank and away I went. I had black sand in the tank and decided to remove it and cleaned my tank 100%. Cleaned the sponges with tank water. Placed media in buckets. I think I went a bit over board actually causing them to stress even more.

I've been preforming 50-80% water changes every other day. Saturday I replaced the filters and cleaned both the canister and sump. I placed a bag of activated carbon in, to help remove the PraziPro. Yesterday I did a 50% water change. I ordered ParaGuard, it should be delivered today. All my water parameters are at -0-, Nitrate is still at 5.0 ppm. Today I've not given any meds. or preformed a water change. Pete is looking very stressed. The picture shows him hiding.

I have very hard water and usually my city water has high nitrates. I've had my city come check my water at my house twice. I've called them alot over the years. They all know me now. They switch the water source between two larger cities. So the water isn't consistent. I mix 50/50 tap and bottled/jugs of water into a 55 gallon drum. Once the water is mixed and I test it, then pump it into the tank. Then do it once more with less water and then I'm done. They seem to be healthier since I've started doing this a few years ago.  Until the power went out!

 I'll run to the store and buy the Ultra Colloidal Silver. I'll order the Wondershell. I'll hold off on using the ParaGuard. The less medicine and tap water the better. 

Thank you again for your helpful advice. 

 

 

 

poor Happy.JPG

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These are more pictures I took earlier. Lake has slime biuld-up on the top where the fins meet the body. Happy has slim build-up on his face. The pictures don't show extent of the white spots. They won't stay still for their photo shoot. 

Nov, 5, 2019-Lake slime coat.JPG

Happy Slime coat-11-5-2019.JPG

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Also, on the Ultra Colloidal Silver. For how many days should I use this? Thanks!

 

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You can use it for a week.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

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@Arctic Mama and@shakaho could you take a look see at this.

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Thanks koko! I ended up ordering both, they should arrive by Friday. 

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Honestly I’ve been having something similar in my own tank and am experimenting with treatments right now.  It seemed to come about after a higher nitrate week and a prazi round, so stress seems to have precipitated whatever it is.  If I can find time I wanted to take microscope scraping and verify it isn’t protozoan.  Anyway, not a lot of recs from me right now, but I’d be surprised if the silver made a huge difference because it behaves more virally.  Can’t hurt to try though, at least to clean up some of the bioload uh the system.

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Thank Taryl,

How dishearten to think it might be Lymphocystis virus.  Should I order Fritz Mardel QuICK Cure and give it a try?  My oranda (Pete) does seem took look better. My ryukin (Lake) and fantail (Happy)have less built-up slime coat. Lake has more spots though. And Happy has blood streaks on both side of his pelvic fins. I know I need to treat them with something. I have on hand Jungle Clear, ParaGuard, PraziPro, KanaPlex and Genarl Cure. Plus the Colloidal Silver and the Wonder shells coming tomorrow.  They're my water puppies and I want to cure them. I'm glad at least Pete is looking better. 

Thanks again! 

3rd-Lake-Nov-7-2019.JPG

11-7-19-1st.JPG

Best of Pete-Nov-7-2019.JPG

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P.S. If they make it through this, I'm definitely planing on purchasing a microscope! Please keep me in the loop on what you find out with your microscope scrapings. Thank you so much! 

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I’ve made symptoms abate before with metro and furan-2, which is why I’m not sure this is viral.  I really can’t advise beyond that because like I said, it’s something we see on here occasionally and something I’ve seen in my own tanks but I’m not sure I have an answer for what it is. I nuked my system and treated all my fish and quarantined for months and it still came back so....?

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One thing I forgot to ask or I just missed it, but what are you feeding them?

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Repashy Superfoods- Super Gold

 

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To add to my stress. Last night my canister started leaking and ordered new parts. Should arrive today. I have as much media and a couple of sponges in my sump right now. I'll give it a good cleaning and will have to replace some sponges. The white spots seem to first show up as small spots, then spread out. Making a larger flat white spot. They're not always round. I'm wondering if I could go ahead and use KanaPlex being I have in on hand. 

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Those sort of tail calcification aren’t that unusual, it’s combining it with the streaking and fraying that isn’t great.  Hugs.

 

Here is a not great picture of Watson, you can see some of the tail weirdness here too, with a little bit of fraying on several fins.

DBE01087-73F9-4B5F-A7F3-70A4F012BAE3.thumb.jpeg.86ced27c10a714f1d6346a8559237011.jpeg

Like I said I’m going to be trying the same treatment that worked before, but can’t say definitively by symptoms or pathology why it keeps working and also why symptoms keep popping back up - if it was viral the antibiotics shouldn’t kick it.  If it was parasitic it shouldn’t take so long between outbreaks, nor should it survive a tank nuke and quarantined treatments with no cross contamination among tank components.

But if it is bacterial it’s not one I’m familiar with, either, but that would explain why it responds to antibiotics.  Sigh.  Confusion. Many conditions are easy to treat, this one has been an issue on and off for me for ages.  It might even be different than the hexamita like condition I managed in my tank before, but the symptoms seem extremely similar.

I wish I could offer better advice, but some diagnostic stuff is just tricky, and that may be what you are dealing with too.  Especially if you haven’t had any new livestock in months, that makes it even harder to figure out a vector for however it got into the system.

You can try the kanaplex, but it wouldn’t be the first thing I’d reach for.  I’m sorry about that filter drama too! Filter failures and hose kinks were part of what sparked this in my tank too, slightly wonky chemistry causing stress.

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Okay one thing I know that's causing this. Your food, yup the gel food.

What happens,

You place it in, it floats and then the fish peck at it making tiny bits of food that they can't really eat. Then your canister sucks it up. Then it sits in there till you clean it out, causing nitrates to go up and bacteria to build up in the filter. It's the gelatin matter that's causes the problem, that's why pellet food, unless you over feed it doesn't do this.

 

When I feed my fish frozen brine shrimp I turn off my filters for 5 mins, so that the fish can eat. [emoji16]

 

My suggestion is to stop feeding the gel food to now. Only pellets.

I would rinse all the media out with tank water. Added the Wondershell and a full dropper of silver in the tank.

 

Next day do a 20% water change. Add in a full dropper of silver.

 

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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   API FURAN-2 does treat slime so I don't know if KanaPlex dose the same. I'll go ahead and give FURAN-2 a try. I tried using KanaPlex before when they had a little breakout when I went out of town a couple of years ago. I had family animal sitting for me. KanaPlex worked then, but it was a small case on my Ryukin. And, once I use KanaPlex there's no going back. YOUR Watson does look like mine did both times! Just this time mine has gotten so much worse. Especially after using PraziPro. 
  Koko, they love their gel food, I mean love it! They get squares small enough to fit in their mouths and chow down. lol. They all receive in 2-3 meals a day a total of about 1/2 teaspoon a each. They are getting large now. Since I started using it they've had no bloating issues. Their waste might have some gelatin in it. I'm willing to try anything at this point. I did recieve the Wonder Shells. (They are the tiny ones, lol) I should have ordered the jumbo. The Silver should arrive today or tomorrow.
  Also, we all have different water chemistry that our fish live in. Which I know makes treatments harder figure out. I'm starting to doubt myself in the water I use. The 50/50 (or whatever is needed) method might not be the right route at all. I went to the city water treatment website. I mentioned earlier in the thread, that my suburb water gets switched out from two different treatment plants. When I first started taking care of my goldies the tap water parameters were/are inconsistent. So I started buying jugs of store bought water to dilute the high pH and high nitrates. At one point the city water nitrates were at 80 ppm. Here is a website showing my water quality this year so far. https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/system.php?pws=TX2200063  .... I know keeping the pH (GH) steady is more important then chasing numbers. That's why I mix my water in the 55 gallon drum first. But using the purified bottled drinking water (carbon filtered, micron filtered and Osmosis) might make any treatment ineffective. 
  I've not introduced any new plant or fish. I did however removed the black sand. They use to poop it out. Sooo.. sigh. After the power outage everything I've done has only made things worst for them, and is getting worse by the day. 

  So what I'm understanding is in my quest to heal my water puppies. Is use Wonder Shell, Silver and FURAN-2 and switch food?  I'm planning on changing the water and placing new filters in the canister once the replacement parts arrive. I'll rinse out the one in the sump as well... Ugh, I just called the pet store down the road and all they have is API Fin and Body Cure. She said it does the same thing? I can order but everyday they seem to be getting worse.


  Thank you both so much! 

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The Ultra Colloidal Silver just arrived! :thumbup2:

 

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Can I place the Wonder Shells in to my water with Prime? I have Chloramine in my tap water too. 

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2 drop of the silver in my 90 gallon tank with sump and canister. with measuring true water volume is more like 75-80 gallons.

 

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Yes you can. Silver won't effect anything in the tank or harm your filter or fish. I do not know what it will do with meds like that[emoji51]

Wondershell just stays in all the time even if you medicate the tank.

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2 drop of the silver in my 90 gallon tank with sump and canister. with measuring true water volume is more like 75-80 gallons.
 
It won't harm your tank or fish....i have used the 1100pm on my fish [emoji16]

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I tell ya I'm starting to think if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any at all. lol Just joking, kinda. I opened the package that my Silver was in and I bought the Nasal Spray on accident. I tried my best to put 2 drops in. I called the pet store they said they had New Life Spectrum sinking pellets for goldfish. All they had was 1 mm pellets.  My goldies are huge. I tested them and I had to force them to sink. Then they could hardly see them to eat them but my goldies thought they were the bee's knees! I'll add those to their diet. I asked if they had liquid testing for GH and KH. They had test strips. The Wonder shells are mini, meant for bowls. I'm glad I bought them though as the strips said my tanks Carbonate and GH were low. I do have crushed coral in my sump. Any-hoo. Thank you sooo much for your help! Crossing my fingers. They've been healthy for a long time. I'm optimistic that they will heal and feel better. :pianobanana

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