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Caretta Rose

White Pimples on Tail Fin

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On Jan 5, I noticed some small white pustules on the tail fin of one of my goldfish. I gradually raised the salt to 0.3%, reaching 0.3% on Jan 7 and they have both been in that concentration since then. I am not noticing much change in this bumps. What should be my next course of action?

They are due for a wc on Monday. Do I replace the salt and go to a higher concentration? Or just replace the salt as it is and continue to wait it out?

And also to note...My last topic was about my other fish having a split tail fin with a grey mark. It started to heal on its own without the use of salt but it has left a scar on the fin.  

Photos here:

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/8EQ2Nz8

 

 

 

 

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I’m not sure I see the bump in the pictures, but the tail looks streaky and red?

 

Can you link to the other thread so I can refresh my memory?  And this is a different fish than that one, correct?

 

we will need you to fill out the disease diagnostic form again as well :)

 

 

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank)

* Nitrite Level(Tank)

* Nitrate level(Tank)

* Ammonia Level(Tap)

* Nitrite Level(Tap)

* Nitrate level(Tap)

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

* Water temperature?

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

* How often do you change the water and how much?

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

* How many fish in the tank and their size?

* What kind of water additives or conditioners?

* What do you feed your fish and how often?

* Any new fish added to the tank?

* Any medications added to the tank?

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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Hi Taryl,

I should know better! See below...

This fish is always wiggling and gets so excited when I'm close to the tank, so getting photos is difficult! LOL. Photo attempts below....

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m not sure I see the bump in the pictures, but the tail looks streaky and red?

The bumps are along the part of the tailfin that 'folds'. I've circled the area here in these photos. There is some faint red streaking as well.

Can you link to the other thread so I can refresh my memory?  And this is a different fish than that one, correct?

 

we will need you to fill out the disease diagnostic form again as well :)

 

 

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank): 0 ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tank): 0 ppm

* Nitrate level(Tank): 10 ppm

* Ammonia Level(Tap): 0 ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tap): 0 ppm

* Nitrate level(Tap): 0 ppm

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): Not available

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): Not available

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Freshwater Master Test Kit, drops

* Water temperature? Approx 18C (64.4F)

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 75 US Gallons, running since Aug 4 2018

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Fluval FX6

* How often do you change the water and how much? 90% approximately once per week, give or take a day

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  Jan 5 2019

* How many fish in the tank and their size? Two goldfish (Approx weights: calico 83g, Gold 91g). Fish in question is the calico.

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem Prime each wc

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Various foods, once per day. Fast one day per week. 1) Hikari lionhead mini-pellet (staple), Omega One sinking goldfish pellets (occasional), assortment of fresh leafy greens (mainly kale or spinach) once per week, frozen bloodworms (once per week)

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? Salt started on January 5 2019, gradually raised to 0.3% on January 7th

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Prazi treatment during initial introduction of both fish to the aquarium on Sept 8 2018. Salt, see above.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Faint bloody streaks in tailfin along with white "bumps" or pimples

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Behaviour appears normal, active and eating.

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14 minutes ago, Caretta Rose said:

Any thoughts on what I should do?

From a good friend of mine that has seen this before and I had asked with another member. It does make a lot of since. 

Quote

 

those are small concentrations of fungal spores and can be treated with any Anti-fungals. I would use Nitrofuracin Green or Acriflavine on this but any good anti-fungal should be fine. This happens when the fish bottom sits at night or keeps rubbing on the walls of tanks (sometimes the walls need good scrubbing during water changes). Fungus populates when people over feed and there's too much decaying matter in the filter and some clusters getting stuck in the walls or bottom of the tank. Fungus feeds on decaying matter. This is prevalent with people who feed with gel food. Residues dissolve in the water and organic mulm collects everywhere -- not just the filter. If the fishkeeper wants to feed with gelfood, they either have to do a 100% water change after feeding or feed the fish in a separate holding tub. 

 

As for the ones who don't feed gelfood but is still seeing white nodules on their fish -- the need to do good maintenance of the filter media and never allow it to get clogged for too long. People with canister filters get lazy rinsing their media (too much work, takes hours) which is why I recommend using HOBs instead of canisters. Sometimes the fishkeeper is diligent with filter maintenance anyway but the fish still keeps getting infected on the tailfins --- if this is the case, it's either the fish is a permanent night bottom sitter, or the fish is immunosuppressed and sensitive to even the smallest microorganisms.

 

Since i rinse my filter out every water change and only feed my fish 2 times a day I haven't seen this issue. Also I don't feed them gel food :) 

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Whereas honestly my experience with these is viral, with secondary infections common.   But Furan-2 and acriflavine in a hospital tank for a fourteen day course really isn’t going to hurt anything to try and may well do the trick.

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Thanks ladies. He tends to the bottom of the tank overnight. The base of his tail fins do rest on the bottom. 

 

Shall i just remove the salt during this wc and not bother replacing? I will look into antifungals

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Yes, salt needs to be removed with complete water changes in the hospital tank before these treatments begin.

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This user does not claim to feed gel foods. Even so, many feed gel foods and never have these issues. They definitely don't do 100% water changes after each feeding. That's pure insanity.

I don't think those bumps are fungal either. I agree with Taryl in that the bumps are likely viral. I think we are much too quick to use medication these days. I don't want people to think the answer to everything is meds.

If they are fungal, why not start with something more gentle such as methylene blue dips? Acriflavine is a harsh medication and Bi-Furan probably isn't much gentler. Even if the meds DO help the issue, if the cause is what the person who recommended that thinks it is, the issue is likely to return again and again.

The OP hasn't had the tank for long, it isn't heavily stocked, and the water parameters don't spell poor maintenance. I don't post in this section much anymore, but I can't agree with this medication route. To me it's excessive to start with and IMO it isn't a true solution anyway. 

I doubt the bumps will respond to those meds. The bumps may go away on their own, but it will take quite a while and if they are viral in nature, they will return... And so will any secondary issues that go with them. 

The streaking that I see is extremely mild and in a fish with that coloring, doesn't indicate any issues to me. I would wait and monitor the fish and see if the issues resolve themselves. At most I would do gentle dips, I definitely would not hit the fish with Acriflavine yet. 

I can't agree that multiple weeks of the recommended medication can't cause any harm. The fish might be fine, but making a habit of this and just being quick to use medications in general is why they are working less and less. 

 

Edited by mjfromga

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12 hours ago, mjfromga said:

This user does not claim to feed gel foods. Even so, many feed gel foods and never have these issues. They definitely don't do 100% water changes after each feeding. That's pure insanity.

Fungus populates when people over feed and there's too much decaying matter in the filter and some clusters getting stuck in the walls or bottom of the tank. Fungus feeds on decaying matter. This is prevalent with people who feed with gel food. Residues dissolve in the water and organic mulm collects everywhere -- not just the filter.

As for the ones who don't feed gelfood but is still seeing white nodules on their fish -- the need to do good maintenance of the filter media and never allow it to get clogged for too long.

That was a suggestion for feeding the gel food. People have a tendency for feeding to much food and it will collect in filters and on the floor of the tank. Thats what that statement means.

12 hours ago, mjfromga said:

I don't think those bumps are fungal either. I agree with Taryl in that the bumps are likely viral. I think we are much too quick to use medication these days. I don't want people to think the answer to everything is meds.

Meds aren't the answer to everything. I agree with this. But I have seen these white spots for years.

12 hours ago, mjfromga said:

If they are fungal, why not start with something more gentle such as methylene blue dips? Acriflavine is a harsh medication and Bi-Furan probably isn't much gentler. Even if the meds DO help the issue, if the cause is what the person who recommended that thinks it is, the issue is likely to return again and again.

The OP hasn't had the tank for long, it isn't heavily stocked, and the water parameters don't spell poor maintenance. I don't post in this section much anymore, but I can't agree with this medication route. To me it's excessive to start with and IMO it isn't a true solution anyway. 

Well thats your opinion :) I had asked a friend about this cause I kept seeing it over and over again. I wasn't saying poor maintenance. What I was trying to say and where I got the information from is trying to say is that over feeding and not cleaning out the filters can cause excess gunk in the filters causing fungus spores.

12 hours ago, mjfromga said:

I doubt the bumps will respond to those meds. The bumps may go away on their own, but it will take quite a while and if they are viral in nature, they will return... And so will any secondary issues that go with them. 

yes if they are viral it will come back but if they are Fungus you can get it under control.

12 hours ago, mjfromga said:

The streaking that I see is extremely mild and in a fish with that coloring, doesn't indicate any issues to me. I would wait and monitor the fish and see if the issues resolve themselves. At most I would do gentle dips, I definitely would not hit the fish with Acriflavine yet. 

I agree with going with something more milder, but I do worry about fish getting red streaks like this. Normally it indicates something not right with the fish.

12 hours ago, mjfromga said:

I can't agree that multiple weeks of the recommended medication can't cause any harm. The fish might be fine, but making a habit of this and just being quick to use medications in general is why they are working less and less. 

 

Im not saying Meds cure everything and Im not one to just use meds all the time. 

 

Also it was a suggestion, I always let others put there in put on D&D and Im always willing to learn new things from others. 

Its just an opinion and everyone has them :) 

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I really appreciate all the input! 

I do filter maintenance on a monthly basis and clean it with tank water. It is pretty powerful and picks up a lot of gunk. I'm not sure if it could stem from overfeeding because I watch until every morsel if eaten (unless it crumbles like kale but I normally feed messy items on wc days). Could fungus also arise in the fish waste itself? I could make an effort to do filter maint more frequently. However, if this is a fungus infection arising from within the filter itself, would it make sense to dose the whole tank and therefore treat whatever could be hiding in my filter? I am willing to begin with something gentler such as methlyne blue to see if that has an effect. Could I dose the whole tank or would it still be recommended to isolate and quarantine? I am concerned about the stress of moving and being apart from the other. A thought also crossed my mind about pimafix which is much more accessible to me - could a swab of pimafix also be done in this case? The red streaks in the tail seem to come and go but the bumps themselves are still visible.

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I don't think your maintenance is the issue here but if you find that your filter pads are extremely dirty each time, upping maintenance won't hurt. A prefilter sponge also isn't a bad idea if you notice food being sucked into the filter. I have them for my tropical tank and it really helps food from going into the filters. 

I don't think this is fungal. I mean I could be wrong but there's nothing here that supports that this is a fungal infection. It doesn't even look fungal to me. The streaks are very mild and they make sense alongside these bumps. To me it's not a concern either. 

With methylene blue, you MUST NOT dose the tank with it. It'll stain everything a dark blue color and ruin the inside of the tank. You mix the solution in a bowl and you dip the fish in it for a few seconds and then you put the fish back in the tank. This can be done daily for a while to see if it helps. And unlike Acriflavine, methylene blue is very very gentle. Now - I don't expect it to help because though methylene blue is extremely effective on fungus, I don't think this is fungus. 

If the issue is stemming from your filter, and you seek to kill whatever is in your filter, understand that by treating your main tank, you may very well kill the good with the bad. Acriflavine put on my fish in a paste completely crashed her cycle almost instantly. I cannot recommend trying to use it in your main tank. No way. 

I've never used Pimafix myself and haven't seen success with it on goldfish, only tropicals. 

You said the fish appears to be behaving normally and so I definitely cannot and do not recommend hitting him with any meds or placing him in hospital. If anything, I would simply observe for a while and do nothing unless I see any change in behavior or the bumps get much worse. 

Edited by mjfromga

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I do not believe meth blue will be useful in this situation.  These are not open sores, and this isn’t a fry or juvenile needing some help keeping fungus spores at bay with their fragile immune systems.  

 

I have not personally found acriflavine to be harsh on *goldfish*.  Beneficial bacteria in the filter, inverts, and certain tetra species?  Yes.  That’s why it wouldn’t be the worst broad spectrum treatment in this case, and combined with the malachite green in the furan and the gram negative antibacterial, the two together stand a good chance of handling this if it is NOT viral.  The acriflavine also seems to penetrate the slime coat a bit better than meth blue in addition to stronger antiseptic/fungicidal/bactericidal action.

 

I’m a big proponent of meth blue for certain issues, like topical ulcers, fin rot, etc.  But for these sort of cysts it may help and is unlikely to hurt.  The other treatments that could knock out fungus are too weak (like Pimafix) or too toxic to goldfish (like copper or formalin used in the wrong concentrations), IMO.

 

I would generally advise to wait and see as well because I do believe these are viral, but the men’s combo suggested by Koko’s friend is actually quite sound for eliminating other potential sources of the symptom and with comparably little risk to the fish.  

 

A wait and see approach has the downside of possibly causing the fish to weaken and be more susceptible to stress from the treatment, but that’s far from a given.

 

Someone poke me if more help is needed.  OP, it’s your decision, you’ve been given plenty of information to decide treatment (or not) from here.  I’m pretty busy (and still kind of stuck with a healing ankle and house reno drama) so I don’t always remember to check in, but you can reach out with an @ if more help is needed.

 

Edited by Arctic Mama

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Don't get me wrong, I fully think that the methylene blue will be useless. I don't have any reason to believe that this is fungal... So I believe ALL antifungal approaches will be useless. I did say that. Yes the acriflavine does have much stronger fungicidal etc effects, but that's also what makes it much harsher of a med in general. 

The OP is free to do what she wants. I simply cannot stand behind medicating this fish with those meds in this case and so I decided to add my opinion this time. I've seen medications recommended on nearly every disease thread recently when I wasn't sure that they were needed and I decided to say something this time. 

If the bumps are fungal, much like most external fungal infections, they should begin to worsen/intensify fairly quickly if left untreated but are still not generally life threatening until left for quite some time. That's just how fish fungus usually works.

This is why I advised to wait and see before the fish is attacked with medications. If they begin to worsen, then try the meds. If they respond, then that's great. You know what works. 

If Taryl stands behind this treatment and recommends it, then I say go for it. She's always been a great help to me and I trust her judgment on this issue. 

Edited by mjfromga

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I’ve been able to find Furan-2 powder packets on Amazon but not having luck with acriflavine. I messaged my LFS asking, but I guess there is a new law in Canada around certain meds and anti-bacterials. If any users know of a Canadian alternative to acriflavine please let me know. 

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Acriflavine is a chemical, not an antibiotic.  It’s in the API liquid fungus cure bottles, let me see if I can locate some for you.  It also comes as a powder.

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@Caretta Rose how is the fish doing? 

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Sorry for the late response. 

While I was waiting for shipments to arrive, the pimples cleared up on their own. 🤷‍♀️ 🤦‍♀️

I'm wondering if it could have been stress-related. A lot has happened the past month and I had to move (fish pimples cleared up shortly before the move, more stress on me because now I'VE got pimples!!). I started doing less dramatic water changes (30% 2x per week instead of 90% once a week) and I haven't seen a recurrence. I'm thinking I could probably get away with even fewer wc's since my filter is overkill. Every day is a learning experience.

More good news is I've now got my med cabinet more stocked and prepared for whatever happens next.

Edited by Caretta Rose

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That is such great news 👍 anytime you don't have to medicate is great 😊

They might have been, at this point your guess is as good as mine lol

Hey it's always good to have meds on hand, you just never know when you might really need them.

Happy fish means happy owner 😊

 

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On 2/6/2019 at 7:14 AM, Caretta Rose said:

Sorry for the late response. 

While I was waiting for shipments to arrive, the pimples cleared up on their own. 🤷‍♀️ 🤦‍♀️

I'm wondering if it could have been stress-related. A lot has happened the past month and I had to move (fish pimples cleared up shortly before the move, more stress on me because now I'VE got pimples!!). I started doing less dramatic water changes (30% 2x per week instead of 90% once a week) and I haven't seen a recurrence. I'm thinking I could probably get away with even fewer wc's since my filter is overkill. Every day is a learning experience.

More good news is I've now got my med cabinet more stocked and prepared for whatever happens next.

How are they doing now? 

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Both are good, thanks for asking! There has been no resurgence of the bumps. Everything looks clean and clear. And since I've cut back on the amount/frequency of water changes, I'm seeing a lot of new growth on the plants. Every body seems much happier 😊

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16 hours ago, Caretta Rose said:

Both are good, thanks for asking! There has been no resurgence of the bumps. Everything looks clean and clear. And since I've cut back on the amount/frequency of water changes, I'm seeing a lot of new growth on the plants. Every body seems much happier 😊

That is great news. :thumbs:

Keep up the good work :)

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