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waya

Looking good? and food questions

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I got these two Black Friday one year ago as little ones, now they can barely fit in my hand. The orange and white is my 1st more real Ryukin, boy o boy the curves (s)he has now. The Oranda is quite the round one too. How do they look to you guys?

They have a fresh water drip as well as all the filters and water changes.

They eat Omega one Sinking Goldfish Pellets, API Goldfish Pellets, Hikari Sinking Goldfish Excel, Cobalt Aquatics Ultra Goldfish Color Pellets, and fresh food/DIY gel food. Can anyone link me to a good bulk pellet? I have so many larger goldfish now that they're go through about 60oz/3.75lb in about a 3 month time span. I could really use a good bulk pellet in place of the others or to mix in. I also could really use a good place to buy it from getting little 8oz containers isn't really cutting it anymore. I got 3 8oz containers of Omega off Dr.Foster and Smith the next month I was getting more Omega and some of the other types to mix in.

I don't mind if its one of the same foods in a larger quantity or a different food to replace or mix with what I'm getting. I'd be happy with any suggestions of what foods you think I should use and where to get them. Most of my goldfish are now the size of the ones pictured or bigger. I however do have 2 that don't really seem to be growing and one that will only eat small pellets.

20181124_161746.thumb.jpg.de0240ac64f7543a2146a2b4311bd362.jpg20181124_161908.thumb.jpg.ed4aadf65df2d6fdf7236bf3fc6141fc.jpg

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I feed exclusively Blackwater Creek Max Growth Koi and goldfish food.  Foster and Smith have really good prices.  I used to get the medium pellets for my large goldfish and the small ones for the younger fish, but I got lazy and feed them all the small pellets, (about as big as medium goldfish pellets).   My fish grow huge.

You have some fine healthy-looking fish.

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Sorry I took so long to get back to use.

I don't like floating so would you use Blackwater Premium Sinking Koi and Goldfish Diet or Aqueon Goldfish Food Granuals? I can get them both for the same price so only differences is the quality. I don't really know what I'm looking for.

the 1st few of Blackwater... is Menhaden Fish Meal, Wheat Middlings, Wheat, Hydrolyzed Feather Meal,

Crude Protein.......38% min
Crude Fat.......10% min
Crude Fiber.......4% max
Moisture.......10% max
Phosphorous.......1% min

vs Aqueon... Whole Fish Meal (Whole Salmon, Herring & Other Mixed Fishes), Soybean Meal, Whole Wheat Flour, Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Yeast,

Crude Protein  35.0% min
Crude Fat  5.0% min
Crude Fiber  5.0% max
Moisture  9.0% max

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Why do you not like floating? 

Other than live plants, floating pellets foul the water less than any other form of food.  The fish grab them quickly before any nutrients  have a chance to leach since only a bit of the pellets get wet.  You can easily determine whether all get eaten. 

Sinking pellets leach nutrients rapidly and can wind up hidden in the bottom of the tank rotting. 

Gel foods lead in water fouling.   Goldfish tear into the soft gel swallowing what they can and leaving bits scattering through the water.  These rapidly decompose in the water and the filter.  Some people here have observed filter clogging and water quality deterioration with gel foods.

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Everything I've seen says floating is bad for fancies and I already have a few with floating problems.  I don't really seem to have the problem with much food hitting the floor and what does doesn't stay there for long. My goldfish are good little vacuum cleaners and having them for 1-5 years now we know about how much they will eat.

My filters may get dirty a little faster or they may not don't really know. All of my fish eat sinking so nothing to judge it off of but it no big deal to ring out a few filter pads. Most of their tanks have (and this may sound odd) canisters and wet drys. My biggest goldfish tank for example has a canister that pumps water back in to a over head wet dry. It also has a constant water drip.

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I feed both sinking and floating foods. Have not had an issue with floating fish since I had one eat gravel and it got stuck and caused issues. I only fed sinking foods back then. Perhaps if I had fed floating foods, she wouldn't have eaten all that gravel. There's really nothing wrong with floating foods. If you don't like them that's fine, but they're okay to feed. 

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3 hours ago, waya said:

Everything I've seen says floating is bad for fancies

And have any of those sources given evidence to support their statements?  Most of the articles you read have been copied from other articles.  If you compare them you will see what sources people used when you see exactly the same sentences in multiple articles.  You may have observed that Koko's is one of the few forums in which we ask people  to provide evidence for their statements.

 

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Well one of the articles are from this forums site.

https://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Swim%20Bladder%20Disorder.html

under Precautions 

Quote

Even after a fish has been cured of a bout of SBD, the disorder can return at any time so always pre-soak dry foods, use sinking rather than floating foods and keep the tank temp in the high 70's.

https://www.kokosgoldfish.com/BRIEFGUIDEFORNEWOWNERS.html

under feeding

Quote

flakes, either complete food or spirulina (algae) flakes pellets (either sinking or floating, although sinking are much better) freeze-dried live foods, such as bloodworms, daphnia or shrimp frozen live foods, such as bloodworms, brine shrimp, mosquito larvae or daphnia gelled live foods

forum

Mostly sinking or soaking floating to make them sink

 

http://www.allabout-aquariumfish.com/2010/05/which-is-better-floating-or-sinking.html

Quote

When it comes to goldfish, it is a totally different scenario. There are some disagreements among experts as to whether floating or sinking pellets should be best fed to their fish. But basically based on my own experience, it is better if you use a sinking type instead because goldfish being a greedy pet will usually dash and swim towards their food and during the commotion while grabbing the pellets, they will end up sucking air into their stomach as they gulp their meal. Usually what you can observe is that air pockets will get trapped in their poo discharge and prolonged condition are sometimes blamed as the cause of flipping disease seen happening on goldfish. Therefore my recommendation has always been to strictly use only sinking food pellets for your goldfish.

As for koi, they are actually considered as bottom feeders and the reason why I’ve said so is because if you observe carefully, the fish has their mouths pointing downwards. This natural anatomy means that sinking pellets are best fed to them because it is easier for your pets to take a gulp of the foods. However, this doesn’t mean that floating foods cannot be offered to your fish as this will bring them up to the surface of the pond for your closer look. Koi enthusiasts mostly prefer to give their pet floating pellets because this is the time that they usually get the chance to view and get friendly with their fish. As for myself, I will use a combination of floating and sinking pellets as fish feeds for koi.

The scavenger fish picking at the ground comment below is also backed by this one above

http://www.tgs-aquascaping.com/feedings-schedule/

Quote

Sinking pellets are of better use because they do not require the goldfish to come to the water’s surface to feed. When floating pellets are used, goldfish create a bad habit of sucking air at the water’s surface which can lead to swim bladder and buoyancy issues. If the sinking pellets have issues sinking or you only have floating pellets, you can soak the pellets in tank water for a couple of minutes and release them below the water’s surface. Skittish goldfish tend to feel more safe closer to the bottom and out of sight of predators. Coming up to the surface to feed on the floating pellets can be stressful because goldfish cannot see below them.

Quote

Gel Foods are by far the best staple food that provides balanced nutrition because it is easy on the digestive tract and can be absorbed readily. Before there were mass produced gel foods on the market, many hobbyist made their food at home with a variety of ingredients; however, it might not be a nutritionally balanced as commercial brands that we have today. The most popular gel food for goldfish is Repashy’s Soilent Green and Super Green. These different formulas can be blended for the desired effect. It can be modified for young and old goldfish. Certain recipes can prepare goldfish for spawning or can increase growth in fry. Gel foods are well rounded and extremely versatile because it can be the base to any addition or combination of foods, minerals, vitamins, supplements, or medicines that your fish needs.  

Their scavengers and always looking for food on the bottom of the tank (sand, bare bottom, rocks). Some people even give them toys like a dogs toy were they can roll it around the ground to get food out. I've also seem people put gel type foods on rocks for the fish to pick at.

 

Seen a lot of people on here talking about best foods and such. Omega one sinking seems to be one of the tops. DIY Gel food for floating fish or some of the other gel like good you can buy premade. 

Over all true or not I hear less favorable stuff about floating, a lot of people say sinking is better. I've never heard anything bad about sinking other then maybe like you added with the more tank maintenance being necessary. On bare bottom tanks seeing any left over pellets and siphoning them out takes at most a few minutes. So call it being better  safe then sorry or just personal preference

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Those articles on the primary site are extremely old. Like 10 years old. You see it advises freeze dried foods as well and those generally aren't highly recommended anymore. You'll also notice it advises the use of river rocks as substrate and there's other very outdated and questionable advice on those old articles. They should have been updated but they haven't.

Pond fish suck the surface all the time and seem to have lower instances of SBD than tank fish. You feed sinking foods and you claimed to have some floaters. No matter what you read, don't knock before you try. I used to believe all the stuff about floating foods until I begun to learn and then tried it for myself without any adverse effects. 

That article about Koi is nonsense. There are VERY FEW people who feed their Koi sinking foods and the Koi do just fine. Most of the highest quality Koi foods are floating type. Because their mouths point down they should feed from the bottom? Coming to the surface to feed can be stressful? My word. People just make stuff up. 

Omega One is a decent pellet. I used to use it. I tried NLS for a bit but it wasn't all that special IMO and it cost more so I never bought it again. I like to feed my fish a mixture of different sized and shaped pellets and whatnot. I also throw in a bit of freeze dried for extra flavor. This is the mix I had for them over the summer. They did just fine on it. 

IMG_20180911_225759.jpg

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12 hours ago, waya said:

Well one of the articles are from this forums site.

https://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Swim%20Bladder%20Disorder.html

under Precautions 

https://www.kokosgoldfish.com/BRIEFGUIDEFORNEWOWNERS.html

under feeding

forum

Mostly sinking or soaking floating to make them sink

 

 

Thank you for bring that to my attention. I will fix that as soon as I can. Some of the pages on the .com are old and there are so many that sometimes some slip through the cracks. Just remember that this site was one of the first for goldfish and all the information we have has been collecting over the years. So yes we need to update some pages. If you see some like this please let me know. 

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I actually brought this to the teams attention a long time ago and it basically went ignored as you can see... 

Shakaho had offered to write an updated article and you did not want her to. Taryl also offered to update the information. 

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39 minutes ago, mjfromga said:

I actually brought this to the teams attention a long time ago and it basically went ignored as you can see... 

Shakaho had offered to write an updated article and you did not want her to. Taryl also offered to update the information. 

Im not going to argue with ya, but if you looked in that thread I didn't post in it. Meaning I didn't see it. 

I would great appreciate a more updated article. Or even I can fix the writing to it. Sometimes I don't catch everything and have to be reminded.

 

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Totally understand. I will get back on topic. 

The fish you are showing look good OP and so whatever you are doing, it is just fine. If it ain't broke... 

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