Jump to content
lotsalotls

Various issues arising

41 posts in this topic

Quick summary: This particular oranda has been in quarantine for 4 weeks. Last week I noticed he had suddenly become a little floaty (swimming with head tilted down, butt going towards surface). He was also gulping at the surface pretty frequently. His symptoms seem to have worsened this week. A more extensive  history below:

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank): 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank): 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank): looks around 10 before each water change.  If you have a test kit, take these readings before you do a water change. If you don't have a test kit and can't get one immediately, please take samples of tank and tap water to your fish /pet store and request a test. Demand numbers for each test.
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap):0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap):0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap):0 Please test tap water. It may contain ammonia or nitrate.  Tap water often varies in quality with weather/season, so don't just report an old test.  
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) : 8.2 Difference in the pH of tank and tap can cause distress in your fish. We need both tap and tank results. 
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): 7.6   If you don't have KH and GH tests and have municipal water, you can often get this information from the water company.
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API liquid test kit Please answer both brand and type.
      • * Water temperature?: 76F  If you don't use a heater, give the the air temperature. 
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20 gallon quarantine tank that’s been running for about 2 months. Please answer both questions. If you aren't sure of the volume of the tank, give the length, width, and height. 
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon 20 gal filter By the "size" of the filter we mean the gph/lph that it claims to turn over.
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? 50% at least twice a week.
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today 50%     Please answer both questions
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 fairly large oranda You may give the weight of each fish or the length.  For goldfish, include the variety, and use (and indicate that you used) the standard length (sl) -- the length from the tip of the nose to the base of the tail fin.  You can estimate length. For example: 1 oranda, 3" sl, 2 pearlscales 1.5" and 2" sl.  For other species of fish that don't vary in tail length, you may use total length, from the tip of the nose to the end of the tail fin,  but please specify.  For example: 2 bristlenose plecos 3" tl 
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime Water conditioner means the agent used against chlorine.  If you don't use a water conditioner, say why, for example, "well water."  "Water additives" include anything else that you regularly or recently have added to your water, including buffers, water clarifiers, algaecides, etc.
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Give the brand, type of food (sinking/floating pellets, gel food, steamed vegetable, etc.), and how frequently you feed each. Omega one sinking pellets daily. frozen bloodworms or frozen daphnia/brine shrimp/water cress mix 3 times a week.
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? I’ve had him for a month in quarantine  If you have added new fish in the past few months, indicate which ones,  the duration of quarantine, and any treatments you used during quarantine
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Prazipro
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment: Prazi. I’m currently still using it. This is week three.   can be a long answer if you have a sickly fish.  You can link to old D/D threads if we have advised on treatment before.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Raised bumps on his tail.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He acted perfectly normal the 1st week of quarantine. The second week I noticed some flashing so I went ahead and start Prazi. The flashing has stopped since starting treatment. Last week he started to become floaty and gulp at the surface an unusual amount. This is also when I noticed the raised bumps on his tail. This week his floatiness has worsened. He is spending time floating in the corner at the top of the tank. The white bumps on his tail seem more prominent. Oh, and I did a thorough exam when I got him. His abdomen was nice and firm. I gently examed him again today and his abdomen seems much softer than before. He eats very well, no issues there.

92E20434-32FB-4C68-A530-A6F5A1016AC2.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wanted to add that I've also seen him yawning pretty frequently. Mostly in this last week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did the fish come from? I see blood streaks in the tail as well. Is it possible for you to show us the behavior? Looks to me like he probably is brewing an infection

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

A local person was getting rid of some fish, so I took him. They never mentioned any of the odd behavior he is showing now. I can try to get a video and more pictures when I get home. I noticed the veins in his tail as well (they weren’t like that when I first got him). They’re more prominent if I mess with him.

Edited by lotsalotls
More info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mention the tank has been running two months, is the filter older than that?  That’s awfully fast for a filter to fully cycle and mature, or is that just the quarantine filter and not the main tank?  I was a little unclear!

 

Have you done a week without the prazi or any breaks in treatment?  How does his tall look off treatment?  Sometimes the prazi can stress them out but I do believe other things may be at play.  What say you MJ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This tank was setup two months ago. I took established media from one of my tanks that has been running for a few years. It was originally just for extra plants and some apple snails. Now I’m just using it as a quarantine tank. I did a break for 5 days, but unfortunately, don’t recall if his tail was any better or worse.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how he’s been acting all week. It was only occasionally, but now it’s pretty much all the time unless he sees me. Sorry for the terrible quality. I had to zoom in from across the room because he stops if I come near.

5FCC46E3-4BAA-4409-9026-805C6AB814B3.MOV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Well isn't he a friendly guy! Seeing as you said it progressed over time, it might be infection. That tail looks bad. From here, he looks like a typical floaty large SBD Oranda but his progression to this point doesn't spell that at all. I am thinking the beginnings of an internal infection. That may spell the soft belly, the floating, and the angry tail. I see redness in his pectorals as well. I definitely don't think the Prazi is causing this. Do you know if he came from a pond or tank? A tank makes more sense because he isn't hand shy at all. How does his poop look? 

Edited by mjfromga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was in a tank with another oranda when I got him. They were getting rid of both, but I only took him as I'm short on space atm. His poop looks good, not stringy or clear. It's the same color of whatever he eats (usually green because he likes to eat my plants).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotcha. I figured he was from a tank. Pond fish are usually way more hand shy than he is. Sometimes stress of a new environment or even a change in the water can cause fish to lose immunity and they can develop bacterial issues. I think he does have a mild/beginning bacterial infection when I add everything up. 

@Arctic Mama What do you think? I don't want to recommend anything before you have a close look. And @koko and @shakaho you of course are welcomed to have a look as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Red streaks in the tail (and sometimes fraying of the tail) usually indicate stress.  Stress can come from disease or parasites, from water the fish doesn't like, or from emotional stress, like losing a buddy. Once I moved all of the fish in one stock tank (that needed some repair work) to a similar tank with nice fresh water.  The next day, all of the fish had frayed tails and a few had red streaks.  These symptoms disappeared within a few days of getting back into the old tank.

It looks like the fish is slurping the biofilm on the surface of the water.  This biofilm comes from protein and other organics leached from food.  I suggest you stop feeding the high protein frozen critters and reduce the amount of pellets to what he can gobble up in less than a minute. Does he gulp more after feeding?

Changing 50% of the water twice a week, you should barely detect nitrates.   That's another reason why I would reduce high protein food.

I'm not recommending the following because it has risks, but if it were my fish, I would give him a little friend.  You could put a small tank with a small fish in it right next to his tank where they could see one another.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the biofilm is definitely a factor with the surface gulping , but I’m most concerned about him floating somewhat listlessly in the corner. I don’t think the video I posted shows the full extent. He will just hang there, unmoving for extended amounts of time. Up until this week he was always on the move like you see in the last video I posted.

I will try removing the frozen, protein rich foods from his diet. I’ll also see if I can locate some duckweed since he likes eating my plants so much lol. He doesn’t seem to gulp more after feeding. It’s more sporadic throughout the day.  

I can definitely rearrange some tanks and see how well he does next to some of my other goldfish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

He is acting like he has parasites or irritants in his gills.  I’d be reaching for something like Formalin or Paraguard with that video, especially paired with the gulping and red fins.

The former is riskier on a stressed fish but might be faster.

Edited by Arctic Mama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can get paraguard easily. The only formalin containing med I can get quickly would be Kordon Rid Ich. Which would be best in your opinion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2018 at 6:49 PM, lotsalotls said:

I can get paraguard easily. The only formalin containing med I can get quickly would be Kordon Rid Ich. Which would be best in your opinion?

https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116060608-ParaGuard-250ml/dp/B0002A5X7I

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/fish-medication/seachem-paraguard.html

Thats for Paraguard. 

I cant seem to find Formalin  at all maybe AM does :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went ahead and got the Paraguard. I'm happy to say he is no longer floating in the corner for the majority of the day. He's much more active, similar to when I first got him. However, his tail is still pretty red. It may have even gotten a bit worse since I started treatment.

I also removed the protein rich foods. He's now just eating some duckweed, omega one pellets, and various other plants in my tank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Updated picture, I’d say it has definitely gotten worse.

6077D615-C147-4B3F-8735-45AD765E06C5.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I spoke too soon. He's back to floating in the corner today, same as before. Should I treat for a bacterial infection too?

This has been a super frustrating year as far as goldfish keeping goes. At the beginning of the year, I lost one of my favorite fish. About a month later, all the fancys in my indoor pond died within days of each other. A heron took some of the biggest koi in my pond. I purchased a few more fish and 2 from different sources died after coming down with dropsy. If I lose this guy too, I think I'm about done. Sorry for the rant, but I've just been feeling helpless:no:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Arctic Mama I think we need your help again when you get a chance :thumbs: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I lost almost everyone early this year too. Was awful. But I haven't given up yet. I was originally thinking that this fish probably needed an antibiotic when I first saw him and mentioned it. This seemed worse than lingering parasites or mere surface gulping for food film. I think he may be dealing with parasites if the Paraguard seemed to help but I also think he is brewing something secondary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I lost a huge amount of stock this year as well.  It sucks when that happens, and it happens even with experienced fish keepers.  Ponds have an extra element of difficulty when you’re dealing with predation and possible pollution of the water with runoff and such too.

 

Remind me, is this tank filtered or a quarantine?  Sometimes Paraguard can create cycle bumps.  It doesn’t work nicely with other treatments so it may be worth stopping it and taking up Kanaplex for two weeks instead, but it’s worth verifying the water quality first.  What is the current tank setup and water parameters, before a water change?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very unfortunate that you guys lost a lot of your fish. It seems there are always those unfortunate years in the hobby. The last time I've had such large losses was about four years ago when all of my axolotl stock was wiped out within months. I had had some of them for years.

This is a 20 gallon quarantine tank, but it is filtered/cycled. I don't believe I experienced any cycle bumps. I tested the water after starting the treatment and no ammonia registered. 

The last water change I did was Sunday and test results right before it were NH3:0, NO2:0,:NO3: less than 10 but looked above 5.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wondering when was the last time you cleaned the HOB? meaning dumped the water out and rinsed your media with tank water? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now