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Netta

New Goldies w/ Problems

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Hello!  I'm Donetta and I'm new here!  This is an awesome site and I love learning about Goldfish!  This is my second Goldfish tank.  The first Goldie I had died of a bacterial infection I believe a few years back.  After that I had a Betta or two now I'm back to Goldie's.  I have lots to learn about them.  I recently got me two new Ranch babies, Goldie and Chum-Chum.  I want to have them a long time and willing to do what I can so they grow into healthy fish.  I appreciate all the help I can get and appreciate you being here.  Here's my form.  Thanks!!

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tank). ??  I don't have this test.  

* Nitrate level(Tank)  2.5ppm

* Ammonia Level(Tap) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tap) ??

* Nitrate level(Tap) 0

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.8ph so high from Aq salt I believe??) , I have hard water!  I live in Southern California 

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  7.6ph

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API drops

* Water temperature?  80

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20gal long, since 8/18/18

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aquaclear 30 & a sponge filter 

* How often do you change the water and how much? The first week I got them I did daily 75% water change.  Now following qt Prazipro treatment so usually do Twice per week, 50-75%

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday, 75%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 Ranchu ( Goldie and Chum-Chum) each 2" from head to tail. I bought from LFS.  They were in the same tank.

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, vitachem 

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Omega kelp Pellets for last two days with Epsom salt.  I give them two pellets am and two pm each.  Before that I was giving them a mix of pellets and mostly sushi Nori.  This was working until I gave them pellets without soaking them one day and they got constipated.  So I fasted them and gave them peas and this worked, but then they got constipated off the peas.  I think I gave them too much about 1/4 pea each chopped up.  Too much?

* Any new fish added to the tank? Only two new fish in tank

* Any medications added to the tank? Yes

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.         Started QT treatment 8/25 of .3% Aq salt and double dose Prazipro.  I'm on my 3rd round of Prazi.  Feeding Epsom salt pellets for the last two day.  I mixed up the Epsom salt water according to info on this site.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?                    Last two days observed very light black smudges and tiny red dot on my fish "Goldie" that is all yellow- orange color.  However I checked this morning and it's gone.

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?  Goldie and Chum-Chum have big appetites!  However, they bottom sit for a few minutes here and there.  Goldie more so than Chum-Chum.  This is improving though.  Also when they bottom sit they will stop moving their fins and let themselves float a little.  They do this after Prazi treatment too.  They use to flash a lot, but now only occasionally.  Goldie spends a bit of time gulping air at the surface.  I have a lot of surface movements from the hob filter, sponge filter and 10" bubble wand.  I'm really concerned about their poo.  Which is thin, stringy and white despite feeding them Epsom salt pellets the last two days.  They are not pooping enough.

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Their behavior looks pretty normal. Constipation is less common than you think. Peas wouldn't cause it. Normal sized feedings wouldn't cause it. How did you determine they are constipated? White stringy poop doesn't always mean constipation.

Soaking pellets really isn't needed. We want them to eat the pellets quickly so they get the nutrients. Soaking them sort of spoils them. Omega Kelp formula is a great variation in diet for them but as a staple for baby fish, a bit more animal product is ideal. Their goldfish formula is well suited for this. 

If the Prazi seems to have reduced the flashing, they likely have parasites. Prazi works on external parasites, not so much on internal ones. If they had external parasites, makes sense they likely have internal ones too. 

Levamisole, Fenbendazole, and Metronidazole work for different types of internal parasites. It all needs to be fed to be effective. I would start with feeding Metronidazole. A bit of the magnesium sulfate can still be fed and may help too. Try this for one week and see if you notice anything different.

Mebendazole works too, but I don't believe this is safe for goldfish. 

Also, a 20L is great for one goldfish, but we ideally want 20 gallons per goldfish so a 40B is better for two goldfish. Cute little guys btw. 

That Nitrite test will help. Also your tank pH is way higher than your tap pH. The salt would not raise it like that. Can you give us your KH and GH numbers? Particularly KH

Edited by mjfromga

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Welcome to Kokos Donetta!!! Beautiful tank & Goldfish!!!

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42 minutes ago, mjfromga said:

Their behavior looks pretty normal. Constipation is less common than you think. Peas wouldn't cause it. Normal sized feedings wouldn't cause it. How did you determine they are constipated? White stringy poop doesn't always mean constipation.

Soaking pellets really isn't needed. We want them to eat the pellets quickly so they get the nutrients. Soaking them sort of spoils them. Omega Kelp formula is a great variation in diet for them but as a staple for baby fish, a bit more animal product is ideal. Their goldfish formula is well suited for this. 

If the Prazi seems to have reduced the flashing, they likely have parasites. Prazi works on external parasites, not so much on internal ones. If they had external parasites, makes sense they likely have internal ones too. 

Levamisole, Fenbendazole, and Metronidazole work for different types of internal parasites. It all needs to be fed to be effective. I would start with feeding Metronidazole. A bit of the magnesium sulfate can still be fed and may help too. Try this for one week and see if you notice anything different.

Mebendazole works too, but I don't believe this is safe for goldfish. 

Also, a 20L is great for one goldfish, but we ideally want 20 gallons per goldfish so a 40B is better for two goldfish. Cute little guys btw. 

That Nitrite test will help. Also your tank pH is way higher than your tap pH. The salt would not raise it like that. Can you give us your KH and GH numbers? Particularly KH

Hello and thanks for your reply!  Hi I believe they are constipated because before I fed them the pellets without soaking, they pooped quickly after being fed and the color of the poop was green from the Nori.  Plus there was more poop instead of thin stringy poop which seems incomplete.  

I ordered Rephasy Gold Gel food last weekend and it should be here by Friday.  I can mix this with the Metronidazole and Epsom salt water correct?  This is a good food?  I can use Seachem Metroplex?

I know the 20L is small.  I am planning to upgrade.  I read on this site that they can stay in this tank for two years.  

I'll order the Nitrite test, but I can have it tested at the LFS tomorrow.   In addition I'll test my Kh/GH from the tank and aquarium as I have those test at home.  For the PH my aquariums have always been stable at 8, but when I added salt the PH always increased.  

Thanks on my little ones cuteness!  I loves them😊

I appreciate your help!

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47 minutes ago, DawnMichele said:

Welcome to Kokos Donetta!!! Beautiful tank & Goldfish!!!

Thanks for the welcome.  I'm glad I have somewhere to go to get help for my babies!

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Hi MJ, I performed the following test on my aquarium water last night:

KH 11 dKH 196.9ppm KH

GH 18 dGH 322ppm GH

These tested the same for my aquarium water and my tap.

In addition I retested my PH from my aquarium water twice.   Looks like the result is in between 8.2 - 8.4?   I'm attaching the picture.

I'm having the Nitrites tested this evening when I pick up the Metroplex.

 Thanks!

Donetta

 

 

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Okay so those numbers are fine. No need to buffer and any increases and decreases in pH in your tank would be gradual. How are the babies doing today? 

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Hi MJ, 

The fishies are still pooping white stringy short poo.  Seems incomplete me.  Besides that they are well in swimming all over the tank and no flashing lately.  Less bottom sitting. Goldie is still gulping from the surface some.

Looking forward to starting the Metroplex tonight.

im still on the Prazi and salt.  On my 3rd round.

 Thanks!

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Hi MJ!

I woke up this morning and found a super long poop in the tank!  I couldn't believe it.  It was wrapped around a plant three times and has to be 18 inches long!  Two sections of it was really stringy, but one part looked liked regular ole...  I fed them Sushi Nori last night after a one day fast.  Looks the three days of Epsom salted pellets plus one day fast worked.   I'm not sure who it was, but I'm putting my money on Goldie.  She's been the most symptomatic.  There was regular green poo floating around too so hopefully something came from Chum-Chum.  Maybe they were constipated from the worms and not necessarily from the food?  I hear people talking about how Prazi really makes them expell, but I haven't seen that with them and I'm already on my third round.

I actually have not picked up the Metroplex yet.  Is it still necessary since they are poopin and everything?

They are doing well this morning.  Goldie is so much more active now.  She is no longer bottom sits at all.  Both of them seem really good.  The only issue I see now is with Goldie still gulping air at the surface some.  Hopefully that will improve with the rest of the Prazi treatments.  Here's photos.  Not great, but best I could get.  

 Thanks 

Donetta 

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And you can't really tell from the pics above, but when I pulled out the poo, there was green sections from the Nori I fed last night.  Thanks!

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Yes I would get the Metro for them, the white poop means there is something wrong inside the fish. Prazi and Metro should fix this problem :)

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Thanks Koko!  I'll pick up the meds tonight!

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Good morning!  I purchased the Metroplex last night and made the food medicine with Repashy Gel.  I read to feed once daily.  Am I only supposed to feed them once a a day while on Metro?  Or feed them Metro and then another food for the other feeding?  Also I stored the left over in the fridge.

I'm still concerned about  Chum-Chum.  He is still pooping white strings and with only the gel he won't get any veggies.  He looks constipated.  Goldie the one with the big stringy poop is pooping normal now.

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On 9/8/2018 at 9:22 AM, Netta said:

Good morning!  I purchased the Metroplex last night and made the food medicine with Repashy Gel.  I read to feed once daily.  Am I only supposed to feed them once a a day while on Metro?  Or feed them Metro and then another food for the other feeding?  Also I stored the left over in the fridge.

I'm still concerned about  Chum-Chum.  He is still pooping white strings and with only the gel he won't get any veggies.  He looks constipated.  Goldie the one with the big stringy poop is pooping normal now.

Just feed them the medicated food. Its okay to feed just once a day. :) 

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Thanks, good to know.  Wow, It's only been a couple of days and they're already getting better on the Metromeds. 

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Thats a good sign :thumbs: 

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Glad they are doing better Netta!!!  :thumbup2:

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Thanks me too.

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Hi y'all,

I'm concerned about my two fish.  They are on their 5th round of Prazi.  I dosed number 5 on Saturday and will do the water change tonight.   After I dose the Prazi I usually would not see any symptoms from the fish until after 3 days when the meds wear off.  However last night Goldie was gulping air a lot and it was only day two since I dosed the Prazi.  Goldie has always been more symptomatic.

I just realized I changed a few things.  For the first four rounds I was double dosing Prazi for each treatment because I had .3% of salt in the water.  I kept it at .3% for 3 weeks.  Later I read on this forum about how Prazipro should not be used with .3% of salt.  So after three weeks I dropped it to .015% of salt and still double dosed, but at this last dose which was 5, I dropped the salt to .1% and used a regular dose of Prazi.  I did this because I read Prazipro would not be effective/safe  with.3%, but would be ok with up to .02%.  I hope y'all are following me.

Anyway, I don't know what to do now.  I don't know if the gulping is from the flukes or if they have something else like Ich, but with no spots.  

Also, they both still have white stringy poop.  They have been on Metroplex food for 11 days now.

Thanks for the help.

 

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Hmm. A conundrum indeed. Flukes don't tend to cause gulping and I doubt its flukes at this point anyway. Are you using liquid PraziPro? The manufacturer says not to use this product with salt. Quite a few people report that this medicine simply doesn't work.

The abnormal poop is what I am trying to nix. If the Metro hasn't worked, then I'm not sure what exactly the cause may be. I'm so hesitant to suggest more medication at this point. They've had enough and with the air gulping, there's something else amiss. 

I shall ponder... Give me a while. 

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Okay I'll hold on.  Yes, I'm using the liquid Prazipro.  Thanks 

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I also saw Goldie flashing some last night too.

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The stringy poop could just be a stress response, secondary to issues with flukes, water quality, or even just a reaction to treatment.  Some goldfish pout and bottom sit quite a lot with salt and prazi, but the flashing is concerning.

 

Continue with prazipro but no salt, just the prazi, okay? 

 

Once you have done several prazi rounds (it sounds like you have already concluded two or three, correct?) it would be worth it to step the salt back up to .3 or even .5% to deal with ectoparasites, which would seem the most obvious culprit for flashing.  If the flashing continues past two weeks or other behavior emerges we should try some heavier duty anti parasite treatments, but right now I’d just like to try salt and keep watching their eating and poop it that’s okay with the other helpers on here?

Edited by Arctic Mama

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1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

The stringy poop could just be a stress response, secondary to issues with flukes, water quality, or even just a reaction to treatment.  Some goldfish pout and bottom sit quite a lot with salt and prazi, but the flashing is concerning.

 

Continue with prazipro but no salt, just the prazi, okay? 

 

Once you have done several prazi rounds (it sounds like you have already concluded two or three, correct?) it would be worth it to step the salt back up to .3 or even .5% to deal with ectoparasites, which would seem the most obvious culprit for flashing.  If the flashing continues past two weeks or other behavior emerges we should try some heavier duty anti parasite treatments, but right now I’d just like to try salt and keep watching their eating and poop it that’s okay with the other helpers on here?

Hi thanks for responding.  What's your name or do you go by Artic Mama?

Thanks for the info on the stringy poop.   I'm doing Metroplex Med food right now.  I'm on day 12 will finish out the three weeks.

They are no longer bottom sitting.  They flashed a lot initially, but hardly ever anymore.  I did see Goldie flash once on Monday night, but no more after that.  I panicked cause I had not seen them flash in probably 2 plus weeks.

I'm on round 5 with Prazipro and will start the final round on Friday.  I only have .1% Aq salt in my tank now,  Can you clarify, should I just water change the salt out?  Then if it's needed i.e. Cause of flashing bring it back up to .3% or .5%.

I am concerned about their increased air gulping though and I have plenty aeriation in the tank.  The gulping got better, but has now returned.  I was double dosing the Prazipro when my Aq salt was .3%, but when I brought it down to .1% on Saturday then I single dosed.  I wonder since I put in less Prazipro that they have more symptoms i.e. Air gulping.

 

 

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Sounds good to me Taryl. I don't want to add any other medications right now anyway. She wants you to remove ALL the salt from the system. Hikari PraziPro is said to not be as effective with salt and the manufacturer advises that no salt be used with this product. 

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