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sarah91

Rare goldfish ailment?

53 posts in this topic

I can't figure out what is wrong with my goldfish, i've gone through 50 or so diseases/ illnesses but I can't find any thing that matches up.

From the images you can see there are several raised white/yellow bumps on his tail, and a few small white dots on his other fins. The larger ones started off looking like the small dots. What really has me worried is the blood spot which just recently appeared. I've notice that his tail fin bends where the blood spot is sometimes, i'll include an image of that too. There is absolutely nothing else wrong with him, he is active and eating well. There are no spots on the rest of his body, despite the fact they have had plenty of time to spread. He has had smaller dots for months, I thought they might have been tiny fractures until recently. About 5 minutes ago the bumps started filling up with blood, i am now very worried. The last two images are from 5 minutes ago, the rest are from a few hours ago. 

I won't treat him until I have a very good idea of what is wrong with him. 

Any ideas?

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level 0
    • * Nitrite Level 0
    • * Nitrate level 20
    • * Ammonia Level 0
    • * Nitrite Level 0
    • * Nitrate level 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank 7.5
    • * Ph Level, Tap 7
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master test kit (drops)
      • * Water temperature? 26°C
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 13 gallons, about 7 months
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? It is the filter that came with the tank (fluval flex 54 liter)
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? Once every 2 weeks 50% to 70%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 3 days 50%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? One fish about 12cm
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? API stress zyme and API stress coat
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Gold fish flakes and Repashy soilent green
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? No
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Tank has not been medicated
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Bloody streaks in his tail fin, small white dots only on fins and small yellow/white lumps on tail fin.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? No

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Welcome to Kokos!  Please start by reading our Guidelines for healthy goldfish.  Would you back off and get a picture that shows the whole tank?  Every picture I see has large objects in it, some of which probably caused the injuries to the tail fin.  

I tried to find information on your filter, but just got claims of how great it was, rather than useful info.  Is this what you have?  I think that system would be great for a community of little tropical fish, but wouldn't meet the needs of even a small goldfish.

The tail damage does not bother the fish, but the infected red spots indicate poor water quality from the too small tank and not enough water changes.  Organic chemicals accumulate under these conditions allowing the growth of lots of bacteria.  Some of these will infect woulds on a goldfish.  

If you are sure you don't want to get a second goldfish, I suggest you get a 20 gallon long aquarium and and an HOB (hang on the back) filter that turns over 200 gallons of water per hour.  Follow the water change schedule in the Guidelines. 

If you think you might want to get him a friend you should get a 40B (forty gallon breeder), which makes a fine forever home for two goldfish. 

The fish may need nothing more than lots of clean water and space to swim without hitting objects with his tail.  If the spots remain after he gets a bigger tank, we can medicate,

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Hello, 

Thank you for replying so fast! 

I was thinking along the same lines as you so I have already removed anything that could potentially injure him. There were two rocks about the same size as him and one large ornament. 

Yes that is the fish tank I have, the manual says the filter pumps 132 us gal./h. The filter is a "WP1500"

Do you have any idea what the lesions are? His tail looks as if it could snap apart at any minute so i'd like to medicate him as soon as possible. The red spots look more like hemorrhaging than infection to me, they appeared almost instantly. If you look at the difference between the first and last photo (which were 2 hours or so apart) you can see how quickly the redness appeared. This morning (8 hours ago) there was no redness at all. 

It is impossible to get a bigger tank right now, I only purchased the recent tank a few months ago and I do not have the space for an upgrade as much as I want to get a bigger tank. 

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Please remove all of the objects from the tank other than the filter and do 50% water changes daily.  You can add aquarium salt, or other 100% sodium chloride, to the water using 1 teaspoon of salt for each gallon of water.  This is soothing to the fish.  The water changes help keep the wounds clean.  The broken tail fin spine will not improve.

I can't find a WP1500 filter.  Is this an interior (underwater) filter?  Please link it.  

The spots are the sites of injuries to the tail -- some bad enough to bleed.  Since the red appeared right away, it is bleeding not infection.

If you were clumsy like me and fell down and skinned your knees on concrete you would know no medication will speed healing.  You just keep it clean and covered for a month and avoid tripping again.

If you can find some space on the floor, an underbed storage tote like this or this makes an "indoor pond" that provides lots of swimming space.  A small filter like this is all you need.

 

 

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Thank you for your advice.

Here is a link to the filter, it is indeed interior https://www.aquapet.co.uk/fluval-sea-circulation-pump-wp1500-for-evo-aquarium.html

I was actually thinking the spots were some kind of disease or fungus since they have been growing larger and spreading over time. It makes more sense to me that the fungus/ disease/ bacteria has eaten away at the fin causing it to break rather than the spots and breakage being caused by trauma. Which is why I feel he needs to be medicated asap to stop it spreading further. Something like septicemia would explain the blood but I don't think it is that. Also if it were broken surely the blood would have leaked out and not just stayed under the "skin".

I will make efforts to provide him with a bigger living space, thank you for your suggestions. 

 

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A filter holds filter media.  A pump (which may be a part of the filter or separate from it like the one you showed) pumps water through the filter. I still have found nothing that shows the filter, nor have I found the turnover rate for the pump, and I have searched.  

If the fish had septicemia it would be dead or dying.  If it had an infection so severe that it could eat through the bony spine at the top of the caudal fin it would be dead or dying.  

 

 

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There's nothing rare about this issue. The way the fin is bent, it simply looks like an ugly injury. As Sharon said, if it were a flesh eating bacteria or something really nasty like that, the fish would be in much worse shape or dead. 

In any case, if the condition was indeed very rare, medicating it isn't likely to do any good because we don't know what it is and we would be medicating randomly. This literally never works. Fungus needs different medications than bacteria which needs different medications than parasites etc etc. None of them will respond to the same medication. Even different types of bacteria, fungi, and parasites don't respond to the same medications. 

The yellow color is simply the fishes own pigment. It's face and fins have a yellowish tinge to them, the intensity you see around the issue on the fin is just due to it trying to heal. Scabs are a more intense color than your natural pigment. Think of it that way.

Broken fins often heal with weird tissue or bumps. What you are seeing is almost certainly an injury, but it is perhaps beginning to fester because it's beginning to look angry. Medicating fish doesn't do any good if the water isn't kept very clean anyway, so I agree with Sharon in that this is the first step to take. All in all, the fish doesn't look awful and so it's a gentle start. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, mjfromga said:

Acccidental quote. Oops

 

Edited by mjfromga

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I believe these are the pump specs, if it is the same pump, output should be 132gph:

http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/product/15006-flex-aquarium-kit-15-us-gal-57-l/#.W2U_CdJKhaQ

I only know because I was looking at buying this kit for some nano fish/shrimp.  It's a nice tank kit, but in the end I stuck with my 20 gallon long.  The filtration system is quite nice, and overflow design and it could hold quite a bit of filter media, though I cannot find the media capacity.  Actual tank volume is probably less though, IIRC, 17 gallons may be including the filtration chambers.

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Hi i'm really sorry I don't have time to respond to anyone right now - I will later I promise, my Mum is an absolute angel and she's going to loan me the money to get a bigger tank so i'm going out to get it now. The problem I have is the filter is part of the tank I currently have so I have no idea how i'm going to transfer it into the new tank as I don't want to have to make fishy wait for the tank to cycle. I've included a picture of the filter for clarification, i'm sorry for not explaining it properly earlier and just linking the pump - I was very tired. (B is the pump, A is the filter media, and it all slots into the chambers at the back of the tank). I was thinking I could just build the chambers out of plastic and pop it in the new tank so I can put my fish straight in. Would that be okay and am I forgetting any important steps aside from making sure the water parameters are the same/ very close? Thank you guys so much! Again, i'm sorry i'm in such a rush!

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You can put the old filter media into whatever filter you get for the new tank

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On 03/08/2018 at 2:36 PM, shakaho said:

A filter holds filter media.  A pump (which may be a part of the filter or separate from it like the one you showed) pumps water through the filter. I still have found nothing that shows the filter, nor have I found the turnover rate for the pump, and I have searched.  

Sorry, that was silly of me, I forgot to mention the filter is part of the tank as you can see in the image above. The water gets drawn in one end, goes through a huge filter sponge with ceramic media and carbon in it, and then through that pump. The turnover rate is 132 us gal. per hour. 

On 03/08/2018 at 5:44 PM, mjfromga said:

There's nothing rare about this issue. The way the fin is bent, it simply looks like an ugly injury. As Sharon said, if it were a flesh eating bacteria or something really nasty like that, the fish would be in much worse shape or dead. 

I'm not sure it is an injury because the white spots have been growing, and the blood vessels burst over a period of hours not minutes. Could it be a fungus? I've heard of fungi eating holes in fins before. And don't worry there's no way I will medicate without knowing what's wrong. The blood is gone now by the way, so i'm not sure what that means. 

 

I have purchased a new tank now, I had to order it online so it won't be here for a few days. The filter sponge I have in my current filter is huge, so is it ok if I just cut a bit off and stick it in the new filter? Will it contain enough bacteria? 

I also have some aquarium salt now but i'm extremely apprehensive about using it - I have a few questions. 

1. Do I just put it straight in the tank and leave it there? 

2. I'm supposed to add about half a cup of salt to a 57 liter tank is that right? - It seems like way too much

3. Will it hurt my fish? - I'd expect it to sting 

 

Thank you guys so much for all your advice

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It is not fungus. I am 100% sure about that. Dissolve the salt before adding it to the water, though before I knew that... I just added it directly and it never caused harm. And I understand the bits are growing but still we suspect injury. An injury that isn't healing properly will spread and look worse and worse. Same as in humans. If the blood is gone, that's good. Keep up water changes and mild salt and see what happens. If at any time the fish goes off its feed or behaves oddly, let us know ASAP. 

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2. I'm supposed to add about half a cup of salt to a 57 liter tank is that right? - It seems like way too much

No, you are supposed to add one teaspoon per gallon.  15 teaspoons  equals 5 tablespoons which is 1/4 cup plus one tablespoon.  Your tank does not hold 15 gallons.  They only claim it holds 13 gallons, but one reviewer measured how much it held and got 10 gallons. 

0.1% salt soothes the fish and allows us to start raising the salt concentration to 0.3% which has antiseptic properties.  It definitely does not sting.  Where did you get that idea?

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I had an oranda that had the eerily similar symptoms as your fish. This was many years ago now, but I do remember that salt treatment cleared it up and did not require medication. He did have permanent damage to the caudal fin spine though, it always looked slightly crooked.

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Does he keep injuring his tail because his tank is too small? I feel terrible if that's the case. 

I added the aquarium salt, I can't understand gallons and i'm not sure if there is more than one measurement for gallons so I had to go off of the instructions on the packet. I added a .3% concentration (3g per litre). He seems to enjoy the salt, I thought it would sting because it stings us when we get salt in our wounds or eyes. 

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Will the salt kill off the beneficial bacteria? 

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Sorry, I should have linked you to this which tells all you need to know about salt concentrations.

We rarely treat the fish with 0.3% salt until it has a a day at 0.1% and another at 0.2%.  As you have observed the fish doesn't mind going directly from 0% to 0.3% salt, but it worries some fish keepers.

The nitritfiers have no problem with salt. 

If the small tank had nothing in it but water and fish, he wouldn't have any injuries.  

 

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Thats ok, thank you for linking it, it was very helpful. I've had to take the concentration down to 0.1% today because I didn't have enough salt left for 0.3%. I have some kosher salt and it claims to only contain salt, Would that be safe to use?  

He seems to be doing well today, no behavioral changes and he is still eating like a little piggy. A little red blood spot has re-appeared on his tail, i'm not sure why?

The water became really cloudy a few hours ago, I changed 40 liters to try and get it clear but it's still cloudy. Could it be a bacterial bloom or a die off? - that's the only thing I know of that does that.  And the last thing is the algae went crazy overnight, there were weird brown splotches all over the glass this afternoon.

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That salt looks safe :)

The reason for the cloudy tank is that the filter can't keep up with the fish. Also the filter isn't good enough for the fish too.

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Brilliant, that will save me a lot of money too. 

It's never gone cloudy before though and it has been running for quite a while now. It only occurred after I put the salt in. Could it be because the aquarium salt I used wasn't just plain salt? It has a PH buffer in it too, it didn't list the ingredients but it says on the packet that it's medicinal and at first it turned the water yellow. 

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5 hours ago, sarah91 said:

Brilliant, that will save me a lot of money too. 

It's never gone cloudy before though and it has been running for quite a while now. It only occurred after I put the salt in. Could it be because the aquarium salt I used wasn't just plain salt? It has a PH buffer in it too, it didn't list the ingredients but it says on the packet that it's medicinal and at first it turned the water yellow. 

Did you use the salt in the photo above? 

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No I haven't used it yet, i'm still a little scared it might have something in it that they didn't list in the ingredients and i'm not sure if I should add the same amount as aquarium salt or not. 

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5 hours ago, koko said:

Did you use the salt in the photo above? 

 

3 hours ago, sarah91 said:

No I haven't used it yet, i'm still a little scared it might have something in it that they didn't list in the ingredients and i'm not sure if I should add the same amount as aquarium salt or not. 

So when did it turn yellow on you. Im confused.? is the salt have a color to it?

I use pickling salt.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Morton-Canning-Pickling-Salt-4-lb-Box/10318924

 

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Here's a picture of the salt i've been using, it turned the water yellow because it has some yellow powder mixed in with it. 

For some reason it's about 10 times the price to buy that in the UK :( 

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