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fanta_naranja

Oranda not eating, not pooping, weak

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Have you managed to get some Duckweed? 

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There wasn't any available locally so I ordered some on ebay. Likely won't be here for 4 more days.

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Posted (edited)

Wow this came out of nowhere today:

https://imgur.com/a/6ukbpwh

context: I figured I would offer a few pellets and he would take one and spit it out but not eat. So I checked back a few minutes later to remove them and he had done this... Later he ate a few pellets. What do you think? 

Edited by fanta_naranja

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19 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yeah, that looks like ammonia and not an off gassing issue, though the pH swing isn’t awesome.  It’s not bad enough I’d say you absolutely have to offgas it to do a safe water change, and definitely add prime and wait a bit before redosing meds.

 

The Spectrogram would be good to do alone, but I wouldn’t do it with metro.  That’s a lot of meds at once.  I’d still go for the oxy but if it is too expensive I understand that.  Did you post a picture of the stringy poop?  I’d like to see in a separate dish or help up to the glass with really good light, please :)

Just remembering to quote you since I know you're very busy :)

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Huh.  It doesn’t really look like zigzag eggy poop, but it doesn’t look like a parasitic poop either.  Or even a constipated/blockage poop.  I’m kind of stumped, and going to forward this to the rest of the team for their thoughts.

 

Keep up the treatment as light feeding for now :)

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25 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Huh.  It doesn’t really look like zigzag eggy poop, but it doesn’t look like a parasitic poop either.  Or even a constipated/blockage poop.  I’m kind of stumped, and going to forward this to the rest of the team for their thoughts.

 

Keep up the treatment as light feeding for now :)

If a human were having undiagnosed digestive problems I would think the antibiotics messed up their gut biome and tell them to pick up a probiotic. Just my 2c. 

Has anyone ever had a problem after feeding Hikari food for a while and then stopping it?

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Can you put that up against a dark background so I can see the detail of what, if anything, is in it?  I don’t mind poop pictures, they help a lot.  Closeups of everything you see and details of all behavior going on gives us a lot more details to work with.

 

Remember too, you need to be staying on top of water chemistry in the hospital tank, especially with no filter media in :)

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

 

I tried a dark background but the sample was very clear so it was hard to see much of anything (for me at least). I'll include one next time for sure but I got rid of that sample.

I'm testing water chemistry before and after the water changes. There is mature filter media (seachem matrix) in the HOB that I just lightly jiggle in tank water each WC. Ironically, given the state of my tapwater, ammonia goes down between water changes and then restarts at .5 after the WC. Prime is said to detoxify up to 1ppm ammonia for up to 48 hours so the conditions for my fish *should* remain perfectly safe.

Edited by fanta_naranja

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I get that the media helps with detoxifying the ammonia, but it can also cause all sorts of issues in medical treatment.  If you want to run it, run the media in a bucket of water for the next water change but keep it out of the hospital tank.  Especially if we are dealing with parasites, we don’t want anything introducing more organics into the tank or potentially harbouring bacteria or unhatched eggs.  It’s the same reason we don’t use substrate in hospital tanks either.  It’s not a huge deal in a quarantine, but for actual treatment the media needs to be out.  Please run only the air stone or an empty filter for circulation.  

I do think it might be a good choice to deal with the ammonia in the water that’s sitting for the next change, though.  But that would be a separate bucket or trash can :) 

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5 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

 

Oh wow I've had media in there the whole time. I'll keep it out for the Spectrogram treatment. Maybe I'll do a dose every day for 5 days with a 100% WC instead of every other day.

I just got a tiny sample so here it is on a dark background. First pic is under a bright reef tank light. https://imgur.com/a/vTgrz8W

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Hmm, okay that looks like stress poop and not parasite poop.

 

On the spectrogram, when you start it after the metro please go at least ten days, but not more than fourteen.  Some of these meds have the proper dose by the duration is too short to be effective, and the kanamycin should be safe for two full weeks.  But then we wouldn’t want to dose it again for at least a few months.

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21 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

 

I will. He'll be dead bored after 3 weeks in the QT tank so I just feel bad for him. His tankmate has gotten over the absence of his buddy and is currently enjoying the spacious 90 gallon to himself with no one to chase around (side note, the comet has a small cyst/injury lump in his tail which I am monitoring - Would have to remove him from the tank for a picture with any detail but I can if  you're curious).

 

And to be sure I'll keep the salt at 1tsp/10g and epsom salt at 1/2tsp/10g during the spectrogram treatments unless you say otherwise. Thanks!

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Don’t continue the salt with the spectrogram.  Just the epsom to control any swelling :)

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On 4/22/2018 at 9:31 PM, Arctic Mama said:

 

On 4/22/2018 at 3:36 PM, koko said:

Have you managed to get some Duckweed? 

First day of Spectrogram. Duckweed just came in and he actually went for a little bit of it. Not much, just a plant or two and he didn't eat at all today. I got to say he is acting strange. Here are some videos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/06Q0BV8I460yTvzS2 .  He can be seen with a white strand trailing in the third vid and a white spot on his wen (probably just from bashing his head on the filter...) His left eye was swelling a bit again this morning. His "jowels" are pronounced  which I think is because the rest of his face is becoming lean. He also seems to me more lean in the back where he used to be rounder. He had a real bowel movement shortly after these videos, which must be from the food yesterday and that seems like slow digestion for a goldfish.

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On 4/22/2018 at 9:31 PM, Arctic Mama said:

 

2nd day of Spectrogram, I think we are seeing some improvement - green poops and he ate everything offered (except some bits he spat out). Wondering if I should feed him more as he eats it or stick to 4-5 pellets at a time maximum?

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Definitely just a few pellets each feed.  Two mouthfuls, max, theee times a day.  And remove any poop quickly to help the water quality.  If he is eating again that’s fantastic!

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I do think all that green poop is the Duckweed. Goldfish can't resist that so keep feeding to it him :) 

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Posted (edited)

Here is a recommendation from the team to address parasitic issues, in addition to the antibiotics you’re already trying.  It shouldn’t hurt but could help with the poop issues:

For a 3% solution of Magnesium sulphate, add 1 level tablespoon (15 grams) magnesium sulphate to 500 milliliters of distilled water. Stir, and it's good to go. 

Use an eye dropper or pipette to add to pellet food (or any other food that will readily absorb it), and stop dripping water once the pellets become saturated. Use only enough water to saturate the food, with no excess water, so that the water soluble vitamins in the food remain intact. Feed twice a day, for 3-5 days. (I went with 5 days) 

In extreme cases, the oral solution could be administered to a fish via a pipette.Just make sure to use a flexible tip so as not to damage the fishes esophagus when squirting the solution down the fishes throat. Only a small amount is required, but repeat daily until the fish is accepting pre-soaked pellets, and continue treatment for 5 days. 

Treatment taken from this site :)

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/treating-hexamita-aka-spironucleus.339362/

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Posted (edited)

If you have gel food mix, adding the epsom into the gel mix and hot water should also work very well.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

 

We are on day 5 of Spectrogram and his behavior and appetite are greatly improved - he eats everything offered and is fairly active . However as of today he still poops white hairlike strands and little bits of white stuff along with real poop, and the real poop sometimes comes encased in white slimy stuff as well.

I'll try feeding the epsom solution in gel food. I was thinking of feeding metro in the gel food actually, now that he's eating well, but I'll try the epsom first.

edit: read the post you linked and I'm very excited to do the epsom lol.

Edited by fanta_naranja

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Posted (edited)

I wonder where he would have picked up something like worms with a stable tank and no new plants or tank mates?  Did you add anything to the tank like driftwood or feed any live foods within the last year?

 

The epsom food would be perfect to treat that, since we still aren’t positive parasites are an issue (especially since it is responding to an antibiotic and not an anti parasitic like metro) and it won’t hurt or cause antibiotic resistance.  In gel food I’d probably cut the epsom to 1/4 teaspoon per tablespoon of gel powder though, so the ratio doesn’t get funky.  Alternately you could add your 15 g of epsom to 500 ml of water and mix it up, using that water solution to reconstitute the gel powder.  But since you’re not just saturating dry pellets it would need a bit of tweaking.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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10 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

 

We did get some new Mystery Snails in December... And Wisteria in September. Those would be the most recent additions

On 2nd thought I'll stick with the NLS pellets since he's been eating those I don't want to fudge the recipe and needlessly change too many factors at once.

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1 minute ago, fanta_naranja said:

We did get some new Mystery Snails in December... And Wisteria in September. Those would be the most recent additions

On 2nd thought I'll stick with the NLS pellets since he's been eating those I don't want to fudge the recipe and needlessly change too many factors at once.

Did you quarantine the snails or clean the plants in a weak bleach solution?  That would indeed explain parasites, the snail in particular could have harbored them.  Unfortunately they’re also very difficult to treat because they’re delicate and can’t handle most treatments goldfish can to eradicate nasties. 

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Posted (edited)

I do dip new plants but don't quarantine snails. I figured a round of prazi dealt with that stuff. 

Edited by fanta_naranja

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