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Rob1

Bacterial infection? not sure how to proceed.

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Posted (edited)

Hi all, so I am new here and I tried to find some useful information but haven't found what I was looking for so I hope you all might be able to help me :) I understand there is a checklist you must first fill out so here it go's

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) will have to get back on that water is just changed, so low
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)will have to get back on that water is just changed, so low
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)will have to get back on that water is just changed, so low
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) never tested but I recon close to 0 since I never measured anything after water changes
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) never tested but I recon close to 0 since I never measured anything after water changes
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)never tested but I recon close to 0 since I never measured anything after water changes
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) around 7.2 will measure KH and GH later
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) around 8.0

As for water measurements in general, I always make sure the quality of water is near perfect, if anything is wrong I instantly change 1/3 and recheck the tank had a good run in period and the measurements have basically always been good 

    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Drops JBL testlab
      • * Water temperature? 22.2 celcius
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 80 liters (21 gal ish) running since mid 2017
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? superfish aquaflow 200
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? every other week about 1/3

 

 The story:

it started about a week ago with strange behavior, hiding and grinding when we noticed that the fins where damaged. Never had problems before so we didnt really know what to do in the beginning. after some googeling I started with a salt bath with 15 grams sea salt per liter which seemed to work. We also started with esha 2000 but after a day he seemed to get worse so did a 50% water change and added the active coal again to clean the esha out of it. After that we added sera bactopur and continued giving him salt bath once a day. He seemed to get better and started eating again so we stopped with the salt (probably bad choice) and extended the treatment with an extra dose. After that did a 50% water change and added the bio nitrivec again to salvage as much of the filter bacteria i could. the next day the infection was back even stronger then before... so did a 50% water change again and added a new dose of sera bactopur and started with salt baths again. But he seems to get worse every day and i'm kinda lost what to do now... We are really dedicated to both fish so I am not ready to give up yet... a call to the vet was useless as expecte

 

 

 

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday 50%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 fish please see photo
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? tetra aquasafe sera bio nitrivec
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? tetra gold japan (sinking flakes) once a day in the morning
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? yes sera bactopur
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. see story below
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? frayed fins and bloody streaks, als discolored patches now
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? was not eating but does eat a little now. does react to food instantly

WhatsApp Image 2018-03-14 at 11.39.19.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2018-03-14 at 11.39.20 (1).jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2018-03-14 at 11.39.21.jpeg

Edited by Rob1

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Posted (edited)

Sorry your fish isn't feeling well. I'm not a disease expert, so I can't tell you what's wrong with your fish. However, you aren't meeting the minimum care for your goldfish, which is why your goldfish is sick.

Please read. 

 

https://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/topic/121320-kokos-goldfish-forum-guidelines-for-healthy-goldfish/

A few things that might help with your fish adventures in the future.

1. 20 gallons for two fish is too small. You will need to compensate that with better filter and 80% waterchanges weekly.

2. I'm almost 100% certain 30% waterchange ever 2 weeks is not enough to keep parameters safe, especially for your filter/tank.

3. Aqua 200 is 88GPH. Get a better filter that will do at a minimum 200GPH, I'd recommend 300-400 because you're overstocked.

 

If getting a new tank, new filter is out of the question. You will need to compensate with water changes.

 

I'm not expert, but poor water quality is number 1 reason to fin rot. You will need to somehow improve the water ASAP, without shocking the fish. 

Edited by georgelee92

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First, you need to fix your poor water quality.  Please start by reading our guidelines for healthy goldfish. 

You see that we recommend 20 gallons of water per goldfish, and

a minimum weekly water change of 50%, and

a power filter that turns over 10 times the aquarium volume per hour.

 

An aquarium that has run for over 6 months should read zero ammonia and zero nitrite all the time.  Your filter may clog up or perhaps you change the cartridge and throw away the nitrifying bacteria.  You should rinse the crud from your filter medium every time you change the water.

Nitrate will increase with time, but if you follow our guidelines, it should never go over 20 ppm.  High nitrate lowers the  pH, which you have observed (tap 8.0, tank 7.2).  

You can compensate for your small tank by doubling the recommended water change to 50% twice a week or 100% weekly.

Internal filters don't work well with goldfish.

Your fish have bacterial infections, so please link us to the antibacterial agents that you can obtain.   A salt dip, using 1% salt,  should help prepare the fish for an antibacterial treatment.

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27 minutes ago, georgelee92 said:

Sorry your fish isn't feeling well. I'm not a disease expert, so I can't tell you what's wrong with your fish. However, you aren't meeting the minimum care for your goldfish, which is why your goldfish is sick.

Please read. 

 

https://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/topic/121320-kokos-goldfish-forum-guidelines-for-healthy-goldfish/

A few things that might help with your fish adventures in the future.

1. 20 gallons for two fish is too small. You will need to compensate that with better filter and 80% waterchanges weekly.

2. I'm almost 100% certain 30% waterchange ever 2 weeks is not enough to keep parameters safe, especially for your filter/tank.

3. Aqua 200 is 88GPH. Get a better filter that will do at a minimum 200GPH, I'd recommend 300-400 because you're overstocked.

 

If getting a new tank, new filter is out of the question. You will need to compensate with water changes.

 

I'm not expert, but poor water quality is number 1 reason to fin rot. You will need to somehow improve the water ASAP, without shocking the fish. 

 

5 minutes ago, shakaho said:

First, you need to fix your poor water quality.  Please start by reading our guidelines for healthy goldfish. 

You see that we recommend 20 gallons of water per goldfish, and

a minimum weekly water change of 50%, and

a power filter that turns over 10 times the aquarium volume per hour.

 

An aquarium that has run for over 6 months should read zero ammonia and zero nitrite all the time.  Your filter may clog up or perhaps you change the cartridge and throw away the nitrifying bacteria.  You should rinse the crud from your filter medium every time you change the water.

Nitrate will increase with time, but if you follow our guidelines, it should never go over 20 ppm.  High nitrate lowers the  pH, which you have observed (tap 8.0, tank 7.2).  

You can compensate for your small tank by doubling the recommended water change to 50% twice a week or 100% weekly.

Internal filters don't work well with goldfish.

Your fish have bacterial infections, so please link us to the antibacterial agents that you can obtain.   A salt dip, using 1% salt,  should help prepare the fish for an antibacterial treatment.

 

Hi! thnx for the reply's, wow 20 gallons per fish! in my country they state 50 liters per fish with an additional 20 per extra fish so 70 liters in total so i thought i was already on the safe side! I made a mistake with the filter it seems to be a aquaflow 300 with a turnover of 115 gallons an hour. As for the filter when I clean the tank the sponge is rinsed in the water I take out of the tank, just a couple of squeezes so all the smudge is off and then it is put back and always underwater. I will see if a larger tank is an option since space is limited. As for antibacterial agents I can get anything you advice either from ordering online or directly from store, at home i already have esha 2000 and sera bactopur. Salt dips are something i'm already doing :)

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In the US, we have antibiotics available for fish treatment and most of us use those.  Most European countries do not have antibiotics available for treating fish, and we don't have the non-antibiotic medications.  We need a link to the available antibacterial agents so we can determine their active ingredients.

You don't really need a larger tank, just larger and more frequent water changes. 50% changes twice a week.

You should consider a filter like this.  I think that  internal filters don't work well with goldfish because the aquarium water lacks oxygen, which the nitrifiers require to oxidize all of the ammonia and nitrite in the water, and goldfish produce a lot of ammonia and use a lot of oxygen.

What concentration of salt do you use for your dips and how long do you dip the the fish?

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1 hour ago, shakaho said:

In the US, we have antibiotics available for fish treatment and most of us use those.  Most European countries do not have antibiotics available for treating fish, and we don't have the non-antibiotic medications.  We need a link to the available antibacterial agents so we can determine their active ingredients.

You don't really need a larger tank, just larger and more frequent water changes. 50% changes twice a week.

You should consider a filter like this.  I think that  internal filters don't work well with goldfish because the aquarium water lacks oxygen, which the nitrifiers require to oxidize all of the ammonia and nitrite in the water, and goldfish produce a lot of ammonia and use a lot of oxygen.

What concentration of salt do you use for your dips and how long do you dip the the fish?

okay but that much water changes take up allot of time so it might be a good investment in the longrun I will try to find out what antibiotics we have but as far as i know only things like esha 2000 and sera bactopur. 

Salt dips I do 15 mg per liter water based on this website http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/salt.htm which comes down to 1.5% for 15 to max 20 min 

As per request the latest measurements

KH 6 (dkh)
PH 7.6 
GH 9 (dgh)
Nitrate < 0,1 mg/l
Nitrite around 30 mg/l

Nitrite is a little high for my liking so i will be doing a water change now

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So did a water change and the values are now:
 
KH 6 (dkh)
PH 7.6 used a more specific test for the range making me think the previous was incorrect and actually lower
GH 8 (dgh) 
Nitrate < 0,05 mg/l
Nitrite between 10 and 15 mg/l

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Welcome to Kokos  & hope your Goldfish feels better!!!

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If your fish can tolerate 1.5% salt for 15-20 minutes you can certainly increase the salt concentration to 2% and then 3% (for no more than 5 minutes).  Most goldfish will show distress and flop over on their side in a 3% salt solution.   This concentration will strip off the excess slime coat (the white film).

Have you mixed up the nitrate and nitrite readings?   

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12 hours ago, shakaho said:

If your fish can tolerate 1.5% salt for 15-20 minutes you can certainly increase the salt concentration to 2% and then 3% (for no more than 5 minutes).  Most goldfish will show distress and flop over on their side in a 3% salt solution.   This concentration will strip off the excess slime coat (the white film).

Have you mixed up the nitrate and nitrite readings?   

upped the salt to 2% and he did fine. He seems to be more responsive today and ate like normal so that was good :)

thats the reason I dont use nitrite or nitrate haha just use the chemical name so:

  • KH 6
  • PH 7.6
  • GH 8
  • NH4 < 0,05 mg/l
  • NO2 0,025 mg/l
  • NO3 10 - 15 ppm

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