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Itsthek

Fin parasites

34 posts in this topic

Test Results

  • Ammonia Level 0ppm
  • Nitrite Level(Tank) 0-0.1ppm (I assume this means zero)
  •  Nitrate level(Tank) 80-140ppm
  • Ammonia Level(Tap) 1-3ppm
  • Nitrite Level(Tap) 0ppm
  • Nitrate level(Tap) 0ppm
  •  Ph Level, Tank (Not possible, KH, GH and chloramines): pH: 6.8-7.1
  • Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): pH=7-7.2
  • tap water contaminants (according to city):
  • copper=80ppb
  • fluoride: 0.7ppm
  • Lead:2.5ppb
  • chlorine:2ppm
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  •  
  • Other Required Info:
  • How often do you change the water and how much? 25% every 10-12 days
  • What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Unknown brand, Pond filter/pump, 290gph
  • Tank size (how many gals.) 29 gallon long
  • how long has it been running? 1 year since cycle completion, 8-9 months since adding goldfish, 4-5 months since adding pleco
  • Water temperature? 72-76 F (rod heater at 73)
  • Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
  •  How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 25% change 2 days ago
  •  How many fish in the tank and their size? Oranda goldfish, 5" long. Clown pleco, 2.5" long
  • What kind of water additives or conditioners? API dechlorinator
  •  What do you feed your fish and how often? 2-3 times per day: I used to feed Hikari small sinking pellets (enough to make the size of a black-eyed pea) and Omega One Veggie rounds (1/2 round broken into 3 nuggets), occasionally one-half pea or broccoli as a treat. One week ago, I threw out the Hikari bag. I've been feeding frozen broccoli regulsrly the last month. Yesterday I bought omega one medium goldfish pellets and omega one freeze dried krill, and fed them for the first time last night.
  •  Any new fish added to the tank? Not in over 4 months
  • Any medications added to the tank? None
  •  List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.
  • tank has never been treated; goldfish arrived with minor injuries from overcrowding and has never been sick
  • Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Three "Tiny leeches" on her healthy tail fin (one is deformed)
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc. She is acting happy and healthy, but a few days ago I noticed scratches on some of her scales. It honestly looks like she's going through another growth spurt and just shedding some scales, but I worry about the black worms/leeches/parasites hanging from the middle of her tail.

 

 

 

NOTE: DO NOT RESPOND WITHOUT READING!!:

THIS IS NOT AN ORDINARY TANK. it's an AQUAPONIC setup, which means my nitrates need to be over 60ppm. Once they exceed 100ppm I do a water change. I allow heavy algae growth on the smaller panes of the aquarium, and I planted Amazon swords and anubias nana in the aquarium. Every day, I filter water and scoop detritus as fertilizer for my ivy and grapes. I intend to grow lemongrass and mashua (nastartium spp) using the high nitrogen water, but I'm still setting up the planters. Meanwhile, I "stir and scoop" the aquarium almost daily to use as fertilizer.

Edited by Itsthek
Adding tap water info

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Photos of the fish would help a lot :) 

 

Thank you filling out the forum. :) and :welcome 

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She enjoys her exercise and has overcome done stunting the past year. I fast her one of every 10-11 days, or whenever her poop becomes massive.

Pleco is almost always hiding in the "Flintstone hut" pictured. I move aquarium decor weekly to prevent underneath from becoming anaerobic.

Her tail is as black as the worms, so pictures of the parasite are going to be impossible to obtain.

20180110_180633.jpg

20180110_180708.jpg

20180110_180726.jpg

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It is my opinion that is not appropriate to keep a fancy goldfish at 60-100 ppm of nitrate long term. It will affect the fishes health in many ways and is likely to shorten their lifespan. The missing scales are probably due to those jagged looking ornaments. We can't possibly tell you how to treat if we can't see the issue. The photo quality is much too "potato" to see much of anything. 

PS

Not all aquaponic systems have insanely high nitrates. 

Edited by mjfromga

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Welcome to Kokos!!!

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I don't have a better camera. There are three black worms less than one half centimeter long, attached at one end to her tail fin, the rest wiggling free.

I just want to know whatthe parasite is. This is an experimental setup and I'm using my results to teach me more about aquatic ecosystems. I have studied soil microorganisms and intend on using this firsthand experience to help me later maintain outdoor aquatic ecosystems. I'm aware of the indicators of nitrate stress in goldfish as well as anubias (who are sensitive to high nitrate polluted water). My fish has never shown signs of nitrate stress, and I modified my water changing schedule when my plants showed signs of stress. I watch the tank every day and look for signs of illness and injury. I simply could not find information on a parasite that looks like a fluke but is black, or a leech 1/100 the size. I can describe all of the noticed changes, how she's been through four scale-sheds and growth spurts, how her muscles have filled out or her fins have doubled in size, how she's getting color, or growing belly scales finally... What I don't have in photographs I can express in words. I encourage you to try to work withme rather than simply being disparaging and condescending.

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I was not trying to be condescending. I am doing experiments of my own concerning fish and setups and so I understand. Take it easy. I do stand by my words with regards to nitrate but you're free to care for your fish/tank however you like so that's the last you'll hear of it from me.

Anyway, when my fish get growth spurts, they don't shed lots of scales. I'm unfamiliar with that, which is why I said it's more likely she's scraping them off on a decoration. There are several very sharp looking ones in there so I thought that was worth saying. 

Without a clear visual of the worms, we can't be sure what they are. They may not even be parasitic. We can only take shots in the dark and guess, which we do not like to do here. If you could get a pair of tweezers and attempt to REMOVE a worm and show us against say... A white piece of paper, maybe we could get a closer look? 

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Would you please give more information on your aquaponics system?  I got that the fish tank is 29 gallons and a 290 g/h pump takes the water to a filter.  Would you show a pic of the filter?  Tell me about the plant part of the system.  Do you use a grow bed or something else?  What kind of plants do you have and how many?

A balanced aquaponics system should have very low nitrate water coming into the fish tank after the plants have "eaten" their fill.  https://www.friendlyaquaponics.com/2015/08/06/operating-on-zero-ppm-measurable-nitrates/

Here's a simple and pretty accurate article on nitrate levels.

Mjfromga states correctly that nitrates over 60 ppm harm fancy goldfish.  Healthy goldfish don't  normally shed scales.  

 

 

 

Please link to the

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I have been watching closely for signs of injury, but I read that clown Pecos need to munch on wood. I researched appropriate wood for the species, found on the list of sustainable wood sources Red Maple and Willow Oak. I gathered some sticks from outdoors, sterilized them in heat (I don't know the exact temperature the wood got to, but I waited until the caught water had evaporated and collected on the lid) and then froze them to kill any critters on them (12f for 12hr then 8f for 4hr then 29f for 36hr)

The parasites appear to have dropped off when I went back this morning.

The pump I use is https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01E9IO9BY/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515686976&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=290+gph+pond+pump&dpPl=1&dpID=51jt5B8LfoL&ref=plSrch

It has a mesh on which BenBac slime has accumulated. For the gravel I used https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/fish/fish-tank-sand-gravel-substrate/caribsea-arag-alive-hawaiian-black-aquarium-gravel and also added a little bit of activated carbon in the substrate. I use an undergravel filter as well, I was thinking it could "suck in" some of the waste to create habitat for bacteria as well as provide more balanced nutrition and soil composition for my Amazon swords. 

Right now I'm only using one English ivy plant and three baby grape plants; I'm having difficulty building the supports for the planters I want to use for lemongrass, mint, and mashua. 

I've had trouble finding any aquaponics system that wasn't shoving 10 common goldfish into 25 gallon bin or something equally atrocious, so I'll be sure to read up on that link! 

Oranda rarely sheds, its only happened 4 times now and until the most recent it was just 2 scales per, followed by "growing out" (spine gradually becoming less curved as she's gotten proper exercise). A couple days ago she list 5-6 scales, and it was after introducing the wood, so I'm going to remove most of it for the time being until I get a handle on what's going on.

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Hi. My Mega Clown Pleco LOVES Manzanita wood. Cool looking!!!

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I was able to get a "decent" (WHY ARE GOLDFISH SO HARD TO PHOTOGRAPH) angle of her deformed tail fin.

20180111_120251.jpg

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...well, I was cleaning detritus from my pump when the valve broke as I was trying to detach it from tubing. So if I need to change pumps I guess now is the time.

Also sorry about overreacting last night, I was grumpy and frustrated

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My indoor aquaponics set up uses these for the fish tank and grow bed.  The water flows by gravity from the fish tank to a 5 gallon DIY upflow biofilter.  This empties into a  12 gallon tote that serves as a sump.  I have a pump similar to yours in one of these int the sump.  The pump lifts the water into the grow bed, which is a foot higher than the fish tank.  A bell siphon allows the grow bed to fill with water and then empty into the fish tank, like this.

I have 5 young fantails, ~2 inches standard length (without tail) in this 15 gallon fish tank.  Shocking, right?  However the fish actually live in a 47 gallon system including the fish tank, grow bed, filter, and sump.  Furthermore their tank has almost 5 ft2  of surface/swimming area.  That surface area exceeds that of  a 40B aquarium, which most consider the best aquarium for two adult goldfish.  As a rule of thumb, you should have at least 2 square feet of surface area per adult goldfish.

When i had just set up the system about six months ago, I had four of the fantails (smaller than now) in the fish tank and a sparse growth of lettuce.  So I checked the nitrate.  Ouch. It was over 80 ppm.  I changed a lot of water with little change, then decided to add the nutrients that my outdoor aquaponics system needed for good plant growth -- iron, magnesium, and potassium.  The plants started growing like crazy.

I now have about 20 rapidly growing lettuce and arugula plants in the grow bed.  I have to pick it weekly.   The fish look happy and healthy.  After talking to you about nitrate levels, I decided to test the nitrate in the water coming out of the grow bed.  It was zero!  The system has perfect balance with the plants cleaning out the nitrate for the fish.

 

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Starting to worry more... Yesterday I did a 30-35% water change (more than usual) after removing ornaments and "stirring" the top half inch of the gravel to loosen detritus. 

Hershey (the oranda) has been very still and lethargic today, more than I've seen her before. I've left most of the ornaments out; do you think it's stress? If so, what can I do to alleviate it?

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We don't recommend more than a half inch of substrate, and no substrate works better.  With deeper substrate, you get anaerobic bacteria growing in it, and these can release some nasty chemicals.  Do another, larger, water change to get the toxins out.

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Don't my Amazon swords need at least two inches for their roots?

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She perked up after a 50% water change, thanks!

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1 hour ago, Itsthek said:

She perked up after a 50% water change, thanks!

I would do another one tomorrow if it was me :) 

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12 hours ago, Itsthek said:

Don't my Amazon swords need at least two inches for their roots?

You can put the plants in pots and have a clean tank bottom.

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4 hours ago, shakaho said:

You can put the plants in pots and have a clean tank bottom.

Or you can do what I did and tie your plants to a piece of slate rock. That way when you do water change you can either push it around or pick it up :) 

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I've been doing daily 25% changes and stirring/mixing up my substrate. I've noticed as I've done this my nitrates rose (expected) but my pH has become more acidic. The tap sits at 7.1, but my tank went from 6.8 to 6.2 just in the past few days! Can nitrate buildup cause water to become more acidic? (Nitrites and ammonia still zero)

Edited by Itsthek
Adding more water parameters

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Also: Hershey the Goldfish has been gaining muscle, particularly around her back and tail. I've also noticed nitrate stress in both plants (leaf tearing) and fish (new scales are dark gray) as I've disturbed the tank more. I anticipate doing daily water changes indefinitely until my nitrates fall below 40ppm.

Edited by Itsthek

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Please don't stir the substrate unless you first remove the fish and then replace all of the water after you finish stirring.  The substrate is loaded with decaying material some of which can harm or even kill your fish.  

Yes, nitrate can lower the pH.   You also may have water with a low KH, which will result in a pH drop if you just store the water.  Please draw a gallon of water from the tap, test its initial pH, and repeat the test daily.  If the pH drops with time, we can use baking soda to increase the KH and stabilize the pH.

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Okay, thank you, I didn't know that about the substrate. I figured it was basically soil with aquatic organisms; I'll treat it as pathogenic underneath what my goldfish disturbs.

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So I was reading up on high nitrates and low pH and came across this: "A high Bio-Load that often produces large amounts of organic mulm and decomposition in an aquarium (or pond) gravel or in filters is often a common cause of persistent nitrate problems.
Another clue to this is a pH that tends to drop quickly, often even with buffers added (assuming a higher new water pH); the breakdown of organic mulm or similar will lower pH while increasing nitrates.
Pockets of decomposing organics are often found in areas of deep fine sand, under rocks or other décor, or in large filters (especially canister filters)."http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/07/aquarium-nitrates.html?m=1

This leads me to question: what the author refers to as "mulm" is what I was calling "soil". I was thinking of it as a positive thing. Is this the opposite of the case? Would disrupting this mulm cause the sudden drop in pH?

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