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xStatic

Having trouble with my tank (lost two fish)

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Hi all, unfortunately I have recently been having some difficulties with my main goldfish tank. It's a 60 gallon aquarium that previously had four smaller goldfish in it. I'm now down to two of my smallest fish. First of all, I'll mention that although the tank was "technically" overstocked with 4 goldfish in 60 gallons, the fish were nowhere near the large adult size goldfish are capable of reaching, and I performed weekly water changes of 80-90% that kept all the parameters well within the acceptable limits. Months ago, I lost my largest and favorite fish to dropsy. He had experienced floaty issues for a while, and the dropsy came on quite suddenly. I made the decision to euthanize him. After he passed I treated the entire talk with prazi and salt in the same manner I would treat a fish that was in QT.

Everything was fine until a few weeks ago when I noticed my second oldest fish acting sluggish. I tried everything, was doing 50%wcs every other day, but she began to develop dropsy as well and after a few days of no improvement I euthanized her. It's been a few weeks since she's passed. My other two fish are small and active and look healthy in every way. Except--today I pulled them out of the tank so that I could do a closer inspection and I'm fairly sure there are two scales just behind the gill plate of one of my fish that are beginning to lift ever so slightly. The lift is almost imperceptible and I would not be able to get a picture of it unless I had a much nicer camera. I am really terrified this is a sign she's coming down with dropsy too. I don't know what to do next. These are two small fish with 30 gallons each, I keep up with water changes, filter maintenance, etc. just as I would if the tank was fully stocked. When I test the parameters each week the nitrate buildup is pretty much negligible. I'm thinking about starting treatment with metro soaked pellets, possibly putting them through another few rounds of prazi? I have no idea what's in my tank that can be causing this, but it's really beginning to frustrate me.

I've been avoiding medications more or less until now (except for prazi) in favor of super clean water and healthy diets, but it's getting to a point where I think I need to start reaching for antibiotics or something? Thanks for any help or advice. 

Edited by xStatic

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Sorry I didn't think to add the D&D form, my mind's so scattered right now... btw this is the information from today's water reading before I did what I call a "double" water change. I know it's excessive, but I remove the fish in a small container, drain as much of the water as I possibly can, then I fill up the whole tank again (with seachem safe added of course) and then I drain the whole thing again and refill one last time. I float the fish in the container to temp acclimate, then scoop them out by hand to return to the tank. I don't do this often... only after a major issue, like a fish death, or if there's been some disease outbreak or something. My goal is to get out as much as the "bad stuff" as physically possible (bacterial, parasites, etc.). I also gave all the filter media a quick swish in tank water today, but it was hardly dirty at all since I had rinsed it a few weeks ago too. 

So now that's all out of the way... here's my most recent water param readings (before today's wc)

  • est Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0ppm
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0ppm
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)  between 5-10ppm, always closer to 5.
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0ppm
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0ppm
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0ppm
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API Master Kit, drops
      • * Water temperature?  65F
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?  60 gallons, running 2.5 years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Marineland emperor 400 + Aquaclear 70, both with large sponges placed over the intakes. My filters have a good amount of media--sponges + filter floss + ceramic media and are well maintained to keep the media clear from debris buildup so that flow rates and media surface area are maximized.  
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today--as close to 100% as possible, see above.
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 goldfish--1 fantail (2", round bodied fish), 1 shubunkin (4" long, thin-bodied fish)
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem safe (powder)
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Give the brand, type of food (sinking/floating pellets, gel food, steamed vegetable, etc.), and how frequently you feed each. Repashy soilent green gel food alternated with saki hikari sinking pellets (purple bag). They're fed twice daily, very small amounts.
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? Nothing new added to the tank
  • * Any medications added to the tank? About 2 months ago the tank went through a 2 weeks worth of prazi cycles (3 day intervals), followed by two weeks of salt that was slowly increased to a concentration of 0.3%
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. This tank has only ever been treated with prazi and salt, although I've gone through this treatment routine several times with all of the fish. I have always QT'd new fish.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Currently my fantail is displaying ver slight signs of raised scales in the area just behind her left gill plate
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Behavior has been normal with these two fish

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Started Prazi on Sunday and started feeding Metro twice daily. Tomorrow I'll do a huge wc and re-dose the Prazi. I haven't seen any signs of it getting worse. 

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What substrate do you have? If any? What decorations? If any? A full tank photo is ideal but you can just tell us if you can't get a photo. It doesn't make much sense that a well maintained system can dropsy two fish like that. How old were the fish? You said they were your two oldest.

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On September 17, 2017 at 5:31 PM, xStatic said:

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Marineland emperor 400 + Aquaclear 70, both with large sponges placed over the intakes. My filters have a good amount of media--sponges + filter floss + ceramic media and are well maintained to keep the media clear from debris buildup so that flow rates and media surface area are maximized.

Do you every dumb out the water from the filter when you clean the media?

On September 17, 2017 at 5:31 PM, xStatic said:

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Give the brand, type of food (sinking/floating pellets, gel food, steamed vegetable, etc.), and how frequently you feed each. Repashy soilent green gel food alternated with saki hikari sinking pellets (purple bag). They're fed twice daily, very small amounts.

I would suggest not feeding Gel food till we figure this out. Gel food can muck up the filter and can cause dropsies if the filtration isn't kept up. :( 

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I do dump water from the filters when I disassemble them to rinse the media. The thing is I don't think the dropsy is being caused by poor water quality, because I read my water params regularly and I simply don't let them get to a point where my fish might be harmed. I don't think it can be a case of filter buildup/gunk from excess food/etc. going bad and fouling water and causing the illness, because that would cause buildup of nitrites/nitrates/etc. in the water, correct? And those compounds are not building up in my tank. As far as I can tell the cycle is healthy and functioning well. 

I have sand substrate, which I stir. I have a sunken wood in the tank, and plastic plants, but that's it. 

RTdj0cv.jpg

 

The only thing I can think of that's left is that there's some type of pathogen in my tank that's causing the illness. I don't know this for sure, but I'm sort of at my wit's end. Today was the third application of prazi to the tank and it's been about a week of the fish ingesting metro twice a day. So far everything is fine and I haven't noticed any signs of dropsy in either fish. I'm going to finish a second week of the metro and then just wait and see I guess??

 

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Beautiful tank!!!

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Dropsy is a symptom of something wrong in the tank at one point with the fish. So we need to look as to what is causing the problem. You can have good water readings and still have other issues. 

1. The fish could have some kind of parasite in them.

2. It could be some kind of bacterial problem in the tank.

ect....

How long has the log been in there? 

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