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poetholmes

Suddenly my young ryukin's fins are ragged. I just changed the water the day before and he looked fine. Now his fins are frayed. What happened?

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) .025 (never reads zero)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 40
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
      • * Water temperature?  75
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29, six years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Penguin, C cartridge
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? not often enough, every 2-3 weeks
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?   two days ago, 25%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 small fancies, both ryukin.  under two inches. one much bigger than this one who's sick.
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aqueon
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? twice a day, shrimp flakes, small sinking pellets (soaked first) or peas
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank?  salt yesterday
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  none other than salt
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? frayed fins 
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? staying at bottom two days ago, but then ok.
Edited by poetholmes

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) .025 (never reads zero)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 40
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) Fill out please
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) Fill out please
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)Fill out please
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)Fill out please
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
      • * Water temperature?  75
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29, six years 
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Penguin, C cartridge
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? not often enough, every 2-3 weeks
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?   two days ago, 25%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 small fancies, both ryukin.  under two inches. one much bigger than this one who's sick.
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aqueon
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? twice a day, shrimp flakes, small sinking pellets (soaked first) or peas
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank?  salt yesterday
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  none other than salt
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? frayed fins 
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? staying at bottom two days ago, but then ok.

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Your fish needs cleaner water.  Please read our guidelines for healthy goldfish.   If one supplies 20 gallons per goldfish one should change a minimum of 50% of the water weekly.  

Please test your tap water.  Since you always have ammonia in your tank, please get Seachem Prime water conditioner.  This will protect the fish from up to 1.0 ppm ammonia.

Frayed fins may happen in response to stress from temperature/pH changes or an excess of some waste product in the tank.  Correcting the problem allows the fins to heal.  

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My first thing I would do is get a bigger tank. I know you might not be able to but you can get rubber maid totes to hold them in too. Goldfish really need 20 gallons per fish as they can get quite big and they produce a lot of waste.

If your always having ammonia in your tank after 6 years this means that your filtration and tank size is to small for them. The cycle can't keep up with the waste the fish is giving off. So in a since they are always swimming in ammonia and that will burn them.

 

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Hope their fin's heal quickly!!!

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I hope the fins heal up soon! Do you have any pictures?

chrissie

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Thanks for your input.  I can't afford to buy a bigger tank.  If I bought a Rubbermaid tote, I would need a separate filter also, unless it would replace my tank.  Not sure that will work, in our small apartment.  I will definitely begin doing 50% water changes.  We used to do bigger water changes.  Just recently we started doing smaller changes, after I read something about regular 25% changes.  We had a goldfish for about six years without any health problems.  He died early this year.  We bought the two Ryukin in May.  Sonic is the smaller of the two and much slower at getting to the food than Gil.  Gil will eat it up before Sonic gets any.  Maybe that's why I was putting in a little extra food.  I'll cut back on food and do bigger water changes.  

Here are the other water test results.

Tap water ammonia, 0, nitrites, 0, nitrates, 0, and KH, 196.9 (11 drops).

Tank water KH, 161.2 (9 drops).  I was wrong on tank temperature. Today it is 70 degrees.

We have a Penguin Bio-wheel 350. So it's 350 GPH rating.  Should be good for 70-gal tank, product paper stated.

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Thanks for the encouragement.  I will try to post photos of these two cuties.

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Please report your tap pH.  That often explains stress symptoms. The high nitrate reading indicates inadequate water changes.  You need to change enough water to keep your nitrate reading before a water change, to no more than 20 ppm.  

If you read the guidelines, you know that you can compensate for a too-small tank by increasing the frequency/amount of water change.  Two 50% changes weekly or one 75% change weekly should be adequate.  If you read the guidelines, you know that with goldfish, you need a filter/filters that turn over 10X the tank volume per hour as opposed to the 5x per hour that manufacturers recommend.  The later works fine for a tank of small tropicals, but not for large fish like goldfish.

 

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I tested the water pH.  The tap pH is 6.6 and the tank pH is 7.6.    

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I would make a 50% water change to start with.Then take out cartridges on filter.Add Myarsin 1 & 2 to cover gram negative and gram positive bacterial infections, which I think it is.Follow directions I believe every 3 days for 3 treatments.Make no water changes till a full 11 days has passed.Make a 50% water change and add filter cartridges back. Feed only every other day during treatment and only a little,and only pellets.Throw away your flakes as goldfish should not eat from the top.I bet your goldfish will recover 100% with this treatment. Frayed fins are almost never fungal.They are either, 1.stress, 2 other fish chewing them, or 3.I bet 100% bacterial.Maricyn liquid is the best.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) .025 (never reads zero)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 40
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
      • * Water temperature?  75
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29, six years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Penguin, C cartridge
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? not often enough, every 2-3 weeks
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?   two days ago, 25%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 small fancies, both ryukin.  under two inches. one much bigger than this one who's sick.
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aqueon
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? twice a day, shrimp flakes, small sinking pellets (soaked first) or peas
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank?  salt yesterday
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  none other than salt
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? frayed fins 
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? staying at bottom two days ago, but then ok.
I hope you read my answer, of Maracyn 1 and 2,will cure them,1,2,3.Just follow directions and it's the best for bacterial infections I ever saw.
My tank, I think I know what I'm talking about20170910_115348.jpg20170910_115354.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

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I would refrain from medicating unless one of the moderaters/disease assistants advise you too. 
Ranchu_aquarium - we ask that members refrain from giving medicating advice unless asked by the moderaters, if you have an idea on what you think the problem is and a solution feel free to report the post and write your ideas, then all the moderators and disease assistants will be able to see it and decide if they think it's a good course of action to take :)

 

There seems to be quite a large difference between your tap PH and Tank PH and that can stress the fish, I'm not very good with PH related issues as mine has always been stable between tap and tank so I will let someone else chime in on that.

 

But I'm sure the fins are related to water quality, and possibly the swing in PH

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As Mandy pointed out, You have a rather large difference in pH between your tank and tap water.  Would you please do a little experiment?  Draw some tap water into a container, and measure the pH.  Then periodically repeat the measurement over the next day, recording the pH and the time.  Report the results so we can determine your ideal water change schedule.  

Try 25% changes every other day until we figure out how much water you can change at once without a stressful pH change.

 Please do not medicate until we have consistently high water quality.  All medications have side effects.

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Hi Sharon,

 

I'll start checking the tap water pH as you suggested.  Thanks!

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Good morning,

I checked the pH of a small bowl of untreated tap water at 3:15 and 11:15 p.m. Saturday and again at 10:15 a.m. this morning.  The pH has remained 6.6.  I will continue the rest of the day.  Questions: Am I supposed to add conditioner to water?  Does it matter whether bowl is covered or not?  Thanks.

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9 minutes ago, poetholmes said:

Good morning,

I checked the pH of a small bowl of untreated tap water at 3:15 and 11:15 p.m. Saturday and again at 10:15 a.m. this morning.  The pH has remained 6.6.  I will continue the rest of the day.  Questions: Am I supposed to add conditioner to water?  Does it matter whether bowl is covered or not?  Thanks.

if you can put an air stone in there to air the water... I would like to see what it will do.

what is in your tank ? 

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Not sure what you are asking.  I have the Penguin 350, but no air stones or anything else in the tank.  Is that what you meant?  I'd have to buy an air stone.

Do I uncover the bowl of water? 

Thanks!

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On 9/15/2017 at 10:30 PM, Ranchu_aquarium said:

I would make a 50% water change to start with.Then take out cartridges on filter.Add Myarsin 1 & 2 to cover gram negative and gram positive bacterial infections, which I think it is.Follow directions I believe every 3 days for 3 treatments.Make no water changes till a full 11 days has passed.Make a 50% water change and add filter cartridges back. Feed only every other day during treatment and only a little,and only pellets.Throw away your flakes as goldfish should not eat from the top.I bet your goldfish will recover 100% with this treatment. Frayed fins are almost never fungal.They are either, 1.stress, 2 other fish chewing them, or 3.I bet 100% bacterial.Maricyn liquid is the best.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 

This is an epic fail. No water changes for 11 days and just keep piling on medication? Worst advice ever. Please refrain from giving advice here that isn't correct. That isn't how Maracyn (not "MYARSIN" or "MARICYN") should be administered anyway. You definitely don't know what you're talking about and you should read up on stocking levels too. 

OP - if you do not want your fish to die... Please DO NOT follow this advice. Ragged fins are mild and usually signal a water quality issue. It doesn't need strong medication as a primary treatment. Please follow the advice of @shakaho.

Edited by mjfromga

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33 minutes ago, poetholmes said:

Not sure what you are asking.  I have the Penguin 350, but no air stones or anything else in the tank.  Is that what you meant?  I'd have to buy an air stone.

Do I uncover the bowl of water? 

Thanks!

That's a good test, but not worth buying an air pump and stone. Now please test your tank pH, then combine equal quantities of tank and tap water and measure the pH.  Report this pH, and test again later to see if it changes any.   

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The tank water measured pH of 7.6.  The bowl with equal parts tap and tank water also read 7.6.  2 p.m. reading.

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59bee3f344f3f_IMG_1578(1).JPG.0107686f4f7bf8b6fec922975c810185.JPG

Here is a photo of Gil (left) and Sonic.  Sonic is  the little Ryukin with frayed fins and, as of one hour ago, dark (brown?) sections on his fins and side.   More cause for concern.  I tested the half tap/half tank water and it was 7.6.

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Can you get some more pictures of the discoloration on Sonic?  It doesn't look good at all.  Do you have any antibiotics?

I don't know why your tank water pH doesn't drop when you mix it with tap water, but it says that you can do 50% water changes without stressing the fish.

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Just now, shakaho said:

Can you get some more pictures of the discoloration on Sonic?  It doesn't look good at all.  Do you have any antibiotics?

I don't know why your tank water pH doesn't drop when you mix it with tap water, but it says that you can do 50% water changes without stressing the fish.

Almost looks heater burn :idont

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I don't know why the pH stayed the same either.  I've attached more pics of Sonic.  The medication I have is API General Cure for parasitic fish disease.

IMG_0229.jpg

IMG_0222.jpg

IMG_1578 (1).JPG

IMG_0238.jpg

IMG_0237.jpg

IMG_0230.jpg

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