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I woke up this morning to two of my fish dead. i did not see any signs of illness on the other fish AND I had to go to work. When I came home all the rest of the fish were dead. They had developed a kind of white film on their bodies [see pictures]. The water parameters were all fine and I've never had this happen before. The ONLY new addition to this tank was an oranda from Petsmart that I added about 1 week ago and aquaponic stones from Petco for the Pothos i have growing on top. I did not see any ich marks or anything telling of disease leading up to this. The fish were eating and behaving normally.

2017-06-28 17.59.37.jpg

2017-06-28 18.01.15.jpg

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2017-06-28 18.02.58.jpg

Edited by redgold54
mislled Pothos

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I am so sorry for your loss.

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1 minute ago, DawnMichele said:

I am so sorry for your loss.

Thank you. I've been keeping fish for a few years now. I'm specially angry about my beautiful white oranda.

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I'm so sorry to hear about this.  When all of the fish in a tank die at the same time, they most likely experienced something toxic.  Would you be so kind as to fill out this form to help us figure out what happened.

Please copy & paste the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems.  If copy and paste doesn't work for you, just quote this post put your answers right after the questions.

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

 

 

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 0
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank: 6
    • * Ph Level, Tap: 7.4
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API
      • * Water temperature? 72
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 65 gallons - since about February 2017
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Rena XP3 and AC70
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? I change about 15 gallons every 3-4 days and about 30 gallons every 7 days
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 3 days ago - 15 gallons
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 - they were about 2-3 inches, my biggest was maybe 4-5 inches
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? I use DIY dechlorinator
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari, frozen bloodworms, frozen peas - the diet varies...usually bloodworms 1x/week, peas 3x week, and Hikari sinking pellets 4x/week
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? 1 oranda about 1 week ago
  • * Any medications added to the tank? I added methylene blue before going to work today
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. None until today.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? just white slime on their body, very visible. I did not see any ick spots.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? they looked very lethargic this morning, sitting at the bottom which makes me think that perhaps they were not getting enough oxygen.

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the whiteness on their body, ie, the discoloured white slimecoat indicates a low PH level... which i see you posted a value of 6. tap water PH is fine at 7.4, but dropping to 6 in the tank can be critical for goldfish. not that it has never been done before, provided that there is a strong KH reading which i see there is no answer to and left out of the questionnaire in your reply.

there are methods to keep your KH in check if this is where the fault is. i have soft water, although it measures at 7.6 from the tap, in the tank it tends to drop between waterchanges. i use an alkaline buffer which keeps the KH and PH stable between waterchanges, it holds it's value until the next waterchange.

 

the only other thing i know that could kill fish so quickly (that isn't foreign) is columnaris... however, i don't believe your fish are displaying signs of columnaris.

 

Flukes or Ich could not kill fish so quickly without noticeable behavioural symptoms such as thrashing, rubbing on ornaments, erratic swimming etc.. same with bacteria. most bacteria would have presented visible symptoms over a period of time. 

 

so it's either toxic as sharon suggested or it is relative to the low PH.

may be a long shot, but sometimes, equipment on it's way out such as anything which operates fully submersible such as a heater can sometimes throw electric current into the water and randomly zap tank occupants, but the likeliness?  

 

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3 minutes ago, Helen said:

the whiteness on their body, ie, the discoloured white slimecoat indicates a low PH level... which i see you posted a value of 6. tap water PH is fine at 7.4, but dropping to 6 in the tank can be critical for goldfish. not that it has never been done before, provided that there is a strong KH reading which i see there is no answer to and left out of the questionnaire in your reply.

there are methods to keep your KH in check if this is where the fault is. i have soft water, although it measures at 7.6 from the tap, in the tank it tends to drop between waterchanges. i use an alkaline buffer which keeps the KH and PH stable between waterchanges, it holds it's value until the next waterchange.

the only other thing i know that could kill fish so quickly (that isn't foreign) is columnaris... however, i don't believe your fish are displaying signs of columnaris.

Flukes or Ich could not kill fish so quickly without noticeable behavioural symptoms such as thrashing, rubbing on ornaments, erratic swimming etc.. same with bacteria. most bacteria would have presented visible symptoms over a period of time.

so it's either toxic as sharon suggested or it is relative to the low PH.

may be a long shot, but sometimes, equipment on it's way out such as anything which operates fully submersible such as a heater can sometimes throw electric current into the water and randomly zap tank occupants, but the likeliness?  

 

I never had this issue before so I honestly don't know. What buffer do you use to keep your PH stable? It has to be something toxic because they were behaving fine.

 

Edit: I don't have a KH/GH test kit.

Edited by redgold54
see above

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1 minute ago, redgold54 said:

I never had this issue before so I honestly don't know. What buffer do you use to keep your PH stable? It has to be something toxic because they were behaving fine.

 

Edit: I don't have a KH/GH test kit.

i use seachem's alkaline buffer. i have 120g and add 8 teaspoons with every waterchange. you may need more or less, each tank is different. (driftwood also lowers PH if you have that in your tank).

 

you can take a sample of your tank water (if you still have it running) to an LFS and they can test the value of your KH and GH for free. just take about an espresso glass of water to them. be sure to write down the value when the water changes colour. ie, either the amount of drops it took to change colour, or the actual value in numbers.

 

sometimes council works on waterlines in the area, that too can influence the quality of water and you may have by chance run into something like this.

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1 minute ago, Helen said:

i use seachem's alkaline buffer. i have 120g and add 8 teaspoons with every waterchange. you may need more or less, each tank is different. (driftwood also lowers PH if you have that in your tank).

 

you can take a sample of your tank water (if you still have it running) to an LFS and they can test the value of your KH and GH for free. just take about an espresso glass of water to them. be sure to write down the value when the water changes colour. ie, either the amount of drops it took to change colour, or the actual value in numbers.

 

sometimes council works on waterlines in the area, that too can influence the quality of water and you may have by chance run into something like this.

It's disheartening. I'm considering taking the tank down for a while.

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8 minutes ago, redgold54 said:

It's disheartening. I'm considering taking the tank down for a while.

i totally understand your statement. i went through a similar event some years ago where i lost my entire Japanese imported stock (but 1 fish) to a foreign parasite which was undetected by customs and took some private investigating to find. then, due to our limited access to meds, with the help of the kokos community, i was able to make my own required medicines to treat and save the last fish. that was a difficult time in life and i too wanted to just throw the hobby away. but, our community's dedication is what kept the love for this hobby alive.

thing is, keeping goldfish is not an easy task. it's a challenge from day one until you hang your gloves up ;) but, it is what you make of it. like everything else, it's an experience you keep learning from, provided that you want to keep learning.

  • if your fish died as a result of PH shock, then that is what you investigate and fix.
  • your filter media may still going through the cycle process (i don't see a nitrates reading in your results) and perhaps your DIY dechlorinator was not up to scratch, you may want to provide information about what you're choosing to use in case there are issues with it.
  • you added a new fish, but i don't see a QT period mentioned for it.. something you should investigate. ie, check out the store, do their fish seem sick? at the same time, learn that this is not a good thing to do. fish almost always come with pre-existing parasite/bacteria issues and require some solo time for issues to surface and be treated before adding them to the established community.
  • this: "they looked very lethargic this morning, sitting at the bottom which makes me think that perhaps they were not getting enough oxygen." is also a PH symptom. the thickening and degrading of the slime coat.

 

anyhow, some things to consider. i guess what i am trying to say is that our community is here for you. we can only help as much as you want us to. i would guess a good place to start is taking a sample of the watersource down to the LFS or even LPS and have them check the KH and GH values. that will at least give you a better understanding of how to deal with a potenital PH issue.

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I've had a nasty pH crash. Twice actually. I didn't lose any fish either time. Only two fish were affected and they were in two different tanks when it happened. This was before I realized that my water has basically 0 KH. It is unlikely that it would wipe out the fish like this. No - there was a toxin (poison) that did this most likely. Could have come from your water source. Looks like chlorine poisoning to me. Impossible to say without a bunch of tests. Sorry you lost all your fish. I've lost a ton lately to a predator and it sucked really bad to lose my nice white Oranda too. 

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Please tell us how you make your DIY dechlorinator.  I don't use commercial dechor, and I wonder if you use my method or something else.  

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@shakaho I used Sodium Thiosulfate as recommended by King of DIY on youtube.

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I recall being told when I wanted to use that, that sodium thiosulfate has no effect on chloramines. I register ammonia from my tap and my area uses chloramines. I was told that sodium thiosulfate was not a viable option for me. That information might not be correct though. 

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I get mixed information about sodium thiosulfate.  People with large ponds ( tens of thousands of gallons) , particularly old-time ponders, often use it because they treat a lot of water and it is cheap.  Their water changes are typically much smaller than what we use in aquariums, so they don't really have to worry about whether ammonia gets released from the chloramine when the sodium thiosulfate binds it.  I wouldn't use it in an aquarium.  Prime really isn't expensive.

Joey is great at DIY, but I don't know how good he is at chemistry.

I use Vitamin C for dechlorination  One gram treats 100 gallons of water and the fish get some extra vitamin C. I have about 1000 gallons of ponds, and a kilogram of ascorbic acid powder lasts me more than two years.

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I use the API concentrate or the Seachem Safe powder. I did not want to risk the sodium stuff. If your area flushed some chloramines through for some reason or began using them, that's what may have killed your fish. I honestly have no idea though. Safe bet is to use Prime from here on out. 

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I wonder if this has any effect on PH. The packaging didn't say so.

 

Top Fin aquaponic clay

Edited by redgold54
edit for spelling

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That will not affect pH.  

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