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Tohru1529

Pebbles 2nd treament and Update

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This looks like dropsy to me. Very puffy for a single tailed fish. I'm also pretty sure I see significant pop eye. To properly identify dropsy, you should take a clear, well lit, and in focus photo from directly ABOVE the fish. Dropsy treatment usually consists of metro and perhaps another medication but with all she's had, the moderators may wish to try something else. Hang tight. 

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No meds please, it really won't help.  I have a fish going through this exact same issue with an internal mass.  The dropsy and bulging is common when the mass grows and organs are failing, either because of an infection (like a cyst or abcess) or even something like a tumor.  Epsom salt helps the appearance but it's just part of the progressive decline and medication really doesn't do squat.  IF a vet can diagnose an abcess and drain it and apply injected antibiotics like baytril the fish can sometimes be saved, but that's only if an abcess is the cause and not just another kind of mass.

 

I've just left my own pet alone until the last day or two - he has finally stopped eating and it's time to euthanize him.  I cannot make that decision for you but it is the right one for me since there is no treatment and he has begun suffering.

 

I'm sorry Pebbles is declining.  If another team member wants to step in and try any treatments we haven't already gone over they can with my blessing, but in my opinion this is pretty much the end of the line.

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The fish didn't look nearly this bad a short while ago. Also, check this one in the photo. The orange one looks pretty normal but the white one looks like Pebbles did before it got this bad. There might be pop eye in the orange fish, too. Can't tell. It's definitely dropsy at this point but I'm not sure the cause is a mass/tumor. I don't think I could give up on a fish that doesn't look like it's at deaths door, but it's your choice. 

If you decide to euthanize the fish, can you bring yourself to open her and have a look? I recently got a chance to necropsy a deceased dropsied fish and we found fat. Lots of fat. Covering all her organs, thick layer under her skin, and her liver was a small diseased mess. The rest of her organs looked pretty normal. Basically it looked like she died from liver failure caused by morbid obesity same as can happen in humans. It was very interesting.

 

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3 hours ago, mjfromga said:

The fish didn't look nearly this bad a short while ago. Also, check this one in the photo. The orange one looks pretty normal but the white one looks like Pebbles did before it got this bad. There might be pop eye in the orange fish, too. Can't tell. It's definitely dropsy at this point but I'm not sure the cause is a mass/tumor. I don't think I could give up on a fish that doesn't look like it's at deaths door, but it's your choice. 

If you decide to euthanize the fish, can you bring yourself to open her and have a look? I recently got a chance to necropsy a deceased dropsied fish and we found fat. Lots of fat. Covering all her organs, thick layer under her skin, and her liver was a small diseased mess. The rest of her organs looked pretty normal. Basically it looked like she died from liver failure caused by morbid obesity same as can happen in humans. It was very interesting.

 

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:( I think Pearl has tumors on each side I look at pearl scales and her scales look fine. I take another photo of  Angle so you can look. I have meds for dropes. My friend told me to buy it,and Pebbles scales look great when I used it for the 2 days. If I used the meds again on pebbles it may heal I don't know. What do you think mjfromga.

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           Roll over image to zoom in

 
94447._AC_SL1500_V1455126794_.jpg

API Furan-2 Powder for Bacterial Disease for Fish 

Does dropsy but it not going to be ship until June 1. I want to give her something for now until this comes in.

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What do I do about pearl,will she be ok?

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I can't promise Pearl or Pebbles will be okay. That's dropsy in Pebbles. It's hard to fight. But both your fish have abnormal bulges around the gut. You can try the Furan-2 and I also would advise making a medicated food from Metronidazole and gel food (or pellets) if possible. 

Also, that tank is a bit crowded. Would you mind removing your fish and cleaning all that stuff out? The gravel and decorations just take up space and can contribute to the tank getting dirty. The water doesn't look totally clear which is why I say that. 

I agree with another member that your fish are probably over fed or fed the wrong type of food. They all look too round to me except Jabu. Can you say how much you feed them and what food? Over feeding fish will shorten their lifespan and cause many problems. 

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1 minute ago, mjfromga said:

I can't promise Pearl or Pebbles will be okay. That's dropsy in Pebbles. It's hard to fight. But both your fish have abnormal bulges around the gut. You can try the Furan-2 and I also would advise making a medicated food from Metronidazole and gel food (or pellets) if possible. 

Also, that tank is a bit crowded. Would you mind removing your fish and cleaning all that stuff out? The gravel and decorations just take up space and can contribute to the tank getting dirty. The water doesn't look totally clear which is why I say that. 

I agree with another member that your fish are probably over fed or fed the wrong type of food. They all look too round to me except Jabu. Can you say how much you feed them and what food? Over feeding fish will shorten their lifespan and cause many problems. 

API® Guide Fish Problem Solving General Cure has Contains Metronidazole & Praziquantel it will not be here until it ships on june first.

I can't take all 3 fish out of the tank I don't have room. I can clean the take out. I can take some stuff out. Not the bubbles they have to stay does the big pot. I still have 

18579125_10212993571454681_1137761159_n.jpg

• Directly treats fish
• Protects against secondary infections
• Can be used as a preventative
• Will not cloud water
• Contains: Metronidazole 1%, praziquantel .5%, levamisol .4%

*Ingredients: Soybean Meal, sorghum distillers dried grain, fish meal, fish oil, dicalcium phosphate, di-methionine, ascorbic acid, ethoxyquin, calcium carbonate, vitamin E, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, , d calcium pantothenate, niacin, folic acid, riboflavin, menadione sodium bisulfite, biotin, choline chloride, vitamin D3, anganese sulfate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, cobalt carbonate, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, ferrous sulfate, sodium selenite, Vitamin A, mineral oil, vitamin B12.

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I wouldn't feed them that food. It's just trash. Honestly I would throw it away. Can you order Seachem Metroplex rather than API General Cure? The bubbles can stay. If I may ask, why does the giant ornament have to stay? It's really in the way. And it looks hollow which can be bad for the fish as well. 

And its advised to remove the fish when properly cleaning out the tank. Yucky stuff that can get released into the water when you remove stuff can make them sick. You can move them into just large kitchen pots or a bucket or something really quickly. Anything will do. 

Can you please answer the question I asked. What do you feed them. How often and how much? It's important to know this. 

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20 minutes ago, mjfromga said:

I wouldn't feed them that food. It's just trash. Honestly I would throw it away. Can you order Seachem Metroplex rather than API General Cure? The bubbles can stay. If I may ask, why does the giant ornament have to stay? It's really in the way. And it looks hollow which can be bad for the fish as well. 

And its advised to remove the fish when properly cleaning out the tank. Yucky stuff that can get released into the water when you remove stuff can make them sick. You can move them into just large kitchen pots or a bucket or something really quickly. Anything will do. 

Can you please answer the question I asked. What do you feed them. How often and how much? It's important to know this. 

I feed my fish New Life Spectrum Goldfish Formula - 125 g

New Life Spectrum food is made with high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish's color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. All New Life Spectrum products also contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. ":end687916405404New Life SpectrumGoldfish Sinking 300gm"New Life Spectrum food is made with high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish?s color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. All New Life Spectrum products also contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. "

I feed them in the morning sometime or just at night if I miss feeding them in the morning.

The pot has a bubbler in it and my brother move the pot out of the way clean it good. We clean all the ornament. I move the rock out. Can leve the small one in?

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I don't I can get Seachem Metroplex  Chewy don't sell it. that is the only place I can by my fish stuff.API General Cure is on there. Wait what about 

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I used it and pebbles scale was 100% better when I used this stuff.Heals bacterial infections such as tail and fin rot, eye cloud, pop eye, body slime and mouth fungus

  • Rapidly repairs damaged fins, ulcers and open wounds
  • All-natural, antibacterial fish and coral medication
  • Contains the healing properties of melaleuca, tea tree extract
  • Will not harm biological filters, and is safe for all marine and reef aquariums

All in one treats

Treat and prevent a broad spectrum of diseases that can infect freshwater fish with Tetra Lifeguard All-in-One Bacterial & Fungus Treatment. Parasites, bacteria, fungus and poor water quality can cause diseases including ick, mouth and fin rot, flukes and ulcers. Tetra Lifeguard All-in-One Bacterial & Fungus Treatment is a non-antibiotic agent that treats the clinical signs of these diseases in their earliest stages within five days. It contains the powerful oxidizing action of HaloShield which destroys microorganisms and can be used as a preventative when adding new fish.

Pimafix

Key Benefits

  • Quickly treats fungal and bacterial infections such as cottony growth, fin and tail rot and many more
  • Safe for delicate fresh and saltwater fish
  • Made from antifungal properties from West Indian Bay trees
  • Formulated to not only treat disease, but develop resistance
  • Safe for reef aquariums and live plants, it will not adversely affect the biological filter, alter pH or discolor water
Edited by Tohru1529

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The rocks aren't truly the issue. The fish don't need all those ornaments. They take up lots of swimming space and they're only for your viewing pleasure. We have to do what's best for the fish. They also can contribute to stagnant water which can harm the fish. That's why I said to remove them rather than just clean them. Barer tanks usually have healthier fish. The gravel is the same. It can trap waste and makes the tank harder to keep clean.

How much food do you give the fish? They only need a few pellets several times a day. They don't look like big fish and don't need a lot. Those medications aren't useful here. They're very weak. You can't order from Amazon or eBay or some other site? You need the meds on hand for the future anyway. 

I'm still learning but there are rules that must be applied if our fish are to live long healthy lives. We can't just do random stuff, we can't just randomly medicate, and we can't ignore potential risks because we like the way they look. Too much food, too little water changes, and too much medication will make them sick. 

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1 minute ago, mjfromga said:

The rocks aren't truly the issue. The fish don't need all those ornaments. They take up lots of swimming space and they're only for your viewing pleasure. We have to do what's best for the fish. They also can contribute to stagnant water which can harm the fish. That's why I said to remove them rather than just clean them. Barer tanks usually have healthier fish. The gravel is the same. It can trap waste and makes the tank harder to keep clean.

:bingo: I don't have much in my tank just cause of this problem :)

 

1 minute ago, mjfromga said:

How much food do you give the fish? They only need a few pellets several times a day. They don't look like big fish and don't need a lot. Those medications aren't useful here. They're very weak. You can't order from Amazon or eBay or some other site? You need the meds on hand for the future anyway. 

Those meds are just for fin rot and bacteria. Your right MJ those won't work at all. 

1 minute ago, mjfromga said:

I'm still learning but there are rules that must be applied if our fish are to live long healthy lives. We can't just do random stuff, we can't just randomly medicate, and we can't ignore potential risks because we like the way they look. Too much food, too little water changes, and too much medication will make them sick. 

:bingo:

 

We can only help so much if you don't want to listen :( 

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1 minute ago, mjfromga said:

The rocks aren't truly the issue. The fish don't need all those ornaments. They take up lots of swimming space and they're only for your viewing pleasure. We have to do what's best for the fish. They also can contribute to stagnant water which can harm the fish. That's why I said to remove them rather than just clean them. Barer tanks usually have healthier fish. The gravel is the same. It can trap waste and makes the tank harder to keep clean.

How much food do you give the fish? They only need a few pellets several times a day. They don't look like big fish and don't need a lot. Those medications aren't useful here. They're very weak. You can't order from Amazon or eBay or some other site? You need the meds on hand for the future anyway. 

I'm still learning but there are rules that must be applied if our fish are to live long healthy lives. We can't just do random stuff, we can't just randomly medicate, and we can't ignore potential risks because we like the way they look. Too much food, too little water changes, and too much medication will make them sick. 

Nope I can't order any on Amazon or Ebay my mom will not let me. Meds are cheaper on Chewy. That were I can get meds. I only the meds on me until the other 2 meds get here. I feed my 4 to 6 pellets. O I see what I can do about the ornaments.

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3 minutes ago, koko said:

:bingo: I don't have much in my tank just cause of this problem :)

 

Those meds are just for fin rot and bacteria. Your right MJ those won't work at all. 

:bingo:

 

We can only help so much if you don't want to listen :( 

KoKo I do want listen. I go do what I can do. But I can only get meds on chewy. My mom will not let me order any were else.

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17 minutes ago, Tohru1529 said:

KoKo I do want listen. I go do what I can do. But I can only get meds on chewy. My mom will not let me order any were else.

What is Chewy... The only Chewy I know if is my Dad's dog :)

 

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Chewy is a company where you can buy all kinds of pet supplies.

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Just now, DawnMichele said:

Chewy is a company where you can buy all kinds of pet supplies.

thank you

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General Cure isn't strong enough for this dropsy and it isn't truly marketed to treat dropsy. It's more for parasites or mild infections. If you can't get the correct medications there's not much I can do either. Chewy is a good site but caters more towards mammals. 

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3 minutes ago, mjfromga said:

General Cure isn't strong enough for this dropsy and it isn't truly marketed to treat dropsy. It's more for parasites or mild infections. If you can't get the correct medications there's not much I can do either. Chewy is a good site but caters more towards mammals. 

That why I am getting both API Furan-2 Powder for Bacterial Disease for Fish and          

 
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API General Cure Parasitic Fish Disease Treatment

API Furan- 2 Powder has dropsy in it.

Edited by Tohru1529

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Furan-2 alone won't usually treat dropsy. You can't always go by what the package says. Many medications say they can treat things that they really can't treat. That's what we are trying to tell you. It can (maybe) aid in the treatment of dropsy but won't cure it.

The ONLY cases I've seen where dropsy in goldfish was reversed and where the fish didn't receive injections is with the medication metronidazole. And even still it doesn't always work. It's best to feed the medication.

By the time the Furan-2 arrives, your fish will be a lot worse anyway. Taryl is likely to be correct in that the medication won't help anyway but if it does stand a chance of helping, it's imperative that you buy the correct one. 

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1 hour ago, Tohru1529 said:

That why I am getting both API Furan-2 Powder for Bacterial Disease for Fish and          

 
94458._AC_SL1500_V1455126834_.jpg

API General Cure Parasitic Fish Disease Treatment

API Furan- 2 Powder has dropsy in it.

Guys, seriously.  Stop getting meds.  The dropsy is not full body and not from an infection, it is localized where there is swelling from a mass, from all I can see.  It is not a systemic infection and the medication WILL NOT HELP THIS FISH.  

I totally endorse have furan and general cure on hand.  They're very useful.  General cure has he same volume of metronidazole as the Seachem med we usually recommend, along with some prazi which won't hurt a thing.  But for Pebbles it is NOT the right choice.

 

Medication is to treat specific symptoms and conditions, with specific etiology.  It is not a panacea you magically toss at a problem unrelated to what the medication actually addresses and HOPE will work.  There are some cases where we are trying to eliminate causes by process of elimination based on vague symptoms.  That is where treatments can be helpful, because based on how the fish responds we can glean more information about the cause of the illness.  But you already treated this animal and we have observed the symptoms for long enough that it's quite plain this is not something that will respond to metro, furan, kana, oxy, malachite green, meth blue, copper, potassium permanganate, triple sulfa, acriflavine*, or any kind of mineral salt.  The conventional home treatments we have work on parasites, fungus, and bacteria.  Not viruses and not benign or malignant tumors.  Not even very well on localized and encapsulated internal infections like an abcess.

 

(If it is a tumor the acriflavine arguably might have some effect, but I'm not seeing anything about this presentation that indicates it wouldn't cause more harm than good for the fish)

 

Stock up your fish medicine cabinet, absolutely, but don't be naive please, and I mean that in the nicest way - not every condition in animals OR humans can be cured, we are mortal and we age, get sick, and die.  Things can treat symptoms and make us more comfortable, like Epsom to reduce swelling or ibuprofen to reduce inflammation and pain, but when you are dealing with an animal who is acting healthy and strong except for a mass and who gradually gets sicker and weaker through progression of that condition and, arguably, exposure to all manner of harsh medication, the answer is to keep them animal comfortable or put it to sleep.  NOT to keep treating and treating and hoping something works when other medications to try and address those same issues have tried and failed.  That's like driving a Dodge and driving a Ford and wondering why your boating trip isn't going better.  The trucks aren't boats and don't address the reality of water.

 

In the same way antiparasitics and antibiotics aren't surgery and don't address the reality of a tumor, organ failure, or even an internal abcess that is growing and slowly strangling our normal bodily function for the fish's owner systems.

 

 I don't want to discourage you unnecessarily but you have been given advice after advice which you have ignored or added to from all manner of other people and sources.  We have watched and applied what we know to try and help address what we see and instead of listening you are insisting on doing more unhelpful things.  I'm sorry your animal is dying.  Really and truly.  It sucks.  But metronidazole, oxytetracycline, random antiparasite food, and whatever else isn't going to solve it here. 

 

I'm bowing out and won't help on this thread again.  Myra - we may have reasons we are not suggesting x or y that we haven't mentioned on thread and it just gets confusing to contradict what has been said here.  You're right on getting the proper meds but suggesting them here is just causing more problems.  Maybe a new thread or indication it's for general preparedness and not treating this particular fish would clarify?  

 

Koko - I did my best here and there isn't much more to be done.  I don't want you wasting your time thinking I'm slacking off on this - there really isn't more I can see working outside of what a vet could provide.

 

Edited by Arctic Mama
Fixed all phone related typos I think?

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