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fanta_naranja

Oranda underbelly red spots

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) <.25
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 10
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0 
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0 
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) <5
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Ph 8.0, KH 13 GH 15
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Ph 7.8 KH 13 GH 15
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
      • * Water temperature? 68
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 46g 2 years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Eheim Pro II 2028 Canister + Aqueon Quietflow 50 HOB
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? 5-7 days 50%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today 50%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? Large Oranda and Gold and a few mollies
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Repashy Soilent Green each day and Saki Hikari purple bag
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? No
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Nothing recently
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? deep red spots in a tight pattern near the center of the Oranda's underbelly, just a bit forward from the pelvic fins
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? This Oranda has always lightly rested on the substrate when sleeping at night. It also has always occasionally surfaced to gulp air (or maybe to make bubbles for fun), even though the tank is well aerated and I don't feed anything that floats. No recent changes in behavior.cJtzyAq.jpg

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IF you can a full tank shot would help :) 

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Welcome to Kokos!!! Beautiful tank and Goldfish!!!!

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You changed water today.  Did you test the tank water before  or after the water change?

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Is that paris ornament hollow? 

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Tested water AFTER water change.

There's no ornament. The plants are live and there is some driftwood in the back corner where the mollies like to shelter.

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2 hours ago, fanta_naranja said:

Tested water AFTER water change.

There's no ornament. The plants are live and there is some driftwood in the back corner where the mollies like to shelter.

The driftwood does look like the Eiffel Tower.  :teehee

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Here is my thought. :)

One Mollies will nip at anything and may be nipping at your Goldfish or it could be an irritation from the sand.

 

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Do you usually get an ammonia reading in your tank?  Since you tested your water after a 50% water change,  you should double the ammonia and nitrate readings to determine what they were before the water change.  You shouldn't find even a trace of ammonia in an established tank.  

How often do you clean your filters and how do you clean them?

Can you estimate the standard length (tail not included) of your comet and your oranda?  Are these fish the same age as the aquarium?

 

 

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I do usually get an ammonia reading. Rarely seen it hit 0. I clean the canister every couple months by washing the filter pads out with water but I leave the bio media untouched. At the last stage of the canister filter I have seachem purigen. The HOB becomes clogged very quickly and I clean or replace the filter pad with every water change. When the plastic parts become clogged I shake them off in the aquarium. 

The comet is 6 inches and 2 years old. He was in a 10 gallon, but we got the current tank almost 2 years ago. The oranda is 3 inches and about 9 months old. The mark on his belly actually cleared up but today he is frequently going to the surface and gulping air and appearing to chew on it which is really worrying me.

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Let's improve the conditions for the nitrifiers.  From what I found,  your HOB contains a cartridge for mechanical filtration, some plastic structures  and an little bar of filter stuff.  While the cartridge probably provides decent mechanical filtration, the filter might provide enough biofiltration for a 10 gallon quarantine tank. At every water change you should vigorously clean the cartridge, but you should not replace it if it isn't falling apart.  You should also rinse the plastic parts, but in a bucket of discarded tank water, not in the tank.

The canister filter should provide adequate filtration -- both mechanical and bio -- but it doesn't or you would never get an ammonia reading.  Either you have a defective filter, or inadequate cleaning.  You probably should clean the canister filter medium every time you change water, but I wouldn't complain if you did it every two weeks, since it requires more work than cleaning a HOB.  When you clean it, vigorously slap the pads against the sides of the bucket you rinse them in until no more gunk comes out.  Then rinse the biomedium more gently in several changes of water removed from the tank until no more gunk comes out.

Gunk interferes with nitrification.  if a layer of gunk covers the biomedium, it becomes a home for bacteria that consume the organic material in the gunk.  Consuming the gunk requires lots of oxygen, which the nitrifiers need for ammonia and nitrite oxidation.  A heavy coating can even decrease the flow of ammonia to the nitrifiers buried in it.  while clean biomedium in a filter makes the ideal home for nitrifiers, they also grow in the mechanical medium, and grow best there if not buried in gunk.

I know that filter cleaning advice seems contradictory.  Clean too much and you can wash off your nitrifiers, clean too little and you bury them in gunk so they can't do their job.  In an established filter you would find it hard to wash off the nitrifiers, since they live in a sturdy biofilm.  You probably could wash off some nitrifiers in a newly cycled tank since the matrix of the biofilm starts thin and gets thicker with time.

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That's great advice. Is there a visual difference between biofilm and "gunk" ?

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Definitely.  The biofilm maybe invisible or may give a brownish tinge to the media it is on.  It consists of bacteria and other microbes embedded in a gelatinous matrix (secreted by the bacteria).  It may feel slimy, but the slime doesn't rub off.

By "gunk" I mean detritus and mulm.  It may be  brown or black, is crumbly and washes off with a hosing.  It is what comes off when you clean your filter pads or cartridges.

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Well here's a revelation: I tested my tapwater after my WC today and got a solid .25 ammonia reading. Yeah I cheated in my original post and assumed ammonia was still at 0 (it used to be...) . So next time I know to read the tank BEFORE WC. Levels AFTER WC are <.25, 0, 10-20. Oranda is gasping at the surface a lot. I thoroughly shook down my filter media this time according to your instructions. There really wasn't much gunk on the biomedia (seachem matrix), just a nice brownish film.

I read that sometimes an ammonia reading in tapwater is caused by chloramines. My city's website says they add chlorine at .3 mg/L, not chloramine. Edit: JK they switched to chloramine in december of last year and never updated their website. They never notified me! Good thing I was using Prime all along instead of some lesser dechlorinator.

Edited by fanta_naranja

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I can't edit my post now, but I was duped. My city DIDNT switch to chloramines as far as I know. That's just what happens when multiple cities share the same name :teehee

edit: and I even forgot to mention that the Oranda is still frequently lapping at the surface :(

Edited by fanta_naranja

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Have you every Prazied these fish? 

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I would also stop feeding Gel food if you have a canister. That kind of food will build up more gunk in the canister filter than any other kind of food. 

I would also Clean that filter out and possibly run  Acriflavine - 1 week to 2 weeks (follow the instructions on the bottle) also heat the tank up to   86F.

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I'll switch to just feeding Hikari for now then, and look for a heater. I haven't used acriflavine before but I read that it kills live plants. Should I be worried about that?

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16 minutes ago, fanta_naranja said:

I'll switch to just feeding Hikari for now then, and look for a heater. I haven't used acriflavine before but I read that it kills live plants. Should I be worried about that?

The other way we could try since it will wipe out everything, is Prazi with Metro. Might not kill it all but it is safer on your plants and fish :) 

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I have prazi and I can pick up some metro. What exactly are we trying to kill though?

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38 minutes ago, fanta_naranja said:

I have prazi and I can pick up some metro. What exactly are we trying to kill though?

Flukes hun :) 

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