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mysterygirl

Lasanga the Ryukin has white spots (not Ich)

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Happy Superball Sunday, Moderators and Koko’s fans. I chose not to post this help request in the subscriber forum, because I'd like everyone have access to your answers.

LasagnaSickWhiteSpots.jpg
My mail order fish Lasagna is sporting white tissue in spots on her head, and front sides. Can you tell me what you think it is and what I can do?
She’s about 3 years old and 110 grams. 
As always, your expertise is appreciated.  

LasagnaSick1.jpg

 

 LasagnaSick2.jpg

 

LasagnaSick3.jpg

 

Ammonia Level (1000 gallon pond):  0  We’ve had lots and lots of rain

* Nitrite Level (1000 gallon pond)  0  (plants grow in the fountain)

* Nitrate level (1000 gallon pond)  0

* Ammonia Level (Tap):  Not using any tap water

* Nitrite Level (Tap)  Not using any tap water

* Nitrate level (Tap)  Not using any tap water

* Ph Level, (1000 gallon pond) 8.0

KH  Is a low 6, even though I have abalone shells and a cuttlefish in there for the snails.

GH is currently 9 as of Jan 29th, down from a high 15.

Chloramines; 0

 Ph Level, (Tap)  8.4, but not using any

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master kit

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? No filter, she’s in a small 2 gallon container getting a Prazi dip. The pond has a massive Tetra 3000 gallon an hour pump with a Tetra canister filter rated for 1500 gallons and a UV light.
Image result for tetra pond filter debris handling
I clean it once a quarter. There is a 12” x 12” Mechanical filter, the media was changed on 1/25/17. The pond water is very clear, just the lightest shade of "pond." I also use bioadditives like Pond Perfect to feed the micro-beasties. I add a little Fresh Trace now and then. 

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? PraziPro – just added an hour ago:
1 teaspoon 20 gallons/ 1/2 t 10 gallons /1/4 t 5 gallons…
I added 1/9 t for her two 2 gallon bath.

* Water temperature? 56, but getting warmer in the house

* How often do you change the water and how much? The pond has an overflow tank, so mother nature does the water changed.

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? I rely on overflow, rainfall and strong filtration.

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?  2 gallons. Just a Tuperware container with a bubbler

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 1, little Lasagna who is being a great sport about it and not panicking

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Home made gel food, please see link for ingredients Pro Gold (yes I still have some don’t hate me.)

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? No, but I gave her a VERY short Prazi Dip on Feb 29th

* List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) None with her, but she was a mail order fish and her shipmate, Fire Marshall Stanley died not being able to close his mouth. There were no outwards signs of a problem, unlike Lasagna.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Yes, please tell me if you think is fungus. I’ve attached photos.

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? No, she’s acting normal.

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. I have a UV light running now for the last 4 months. I turn it off to let nature combat the string (hair) algae.

* You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video. I’ll do my best.

Edited by mysterygirl

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Hope Lasagna spots go away soon.

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On 1/29/2017 at 1:13 PM, piratepupTn said:

 

Thanks Shakaho. What does it look like to you?

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Oh my goodness, that was one of the longest 5 minutes in my life!

I collected 4 liters of filtered pond water (same temp and pH as her quarantine tank.) I dissolved 80 grams of API aquarium salt without heating the water or cooling it, I'm just stirring it until it dissolves. (1 hour?). It is a .2% solution, a little weaker than the max. She was in for exactly 5 minutes, and just begged for help looking at me the entire time. She didn't tip over once though. 

I'm concerned that if it is flukes the salt will be pretty painful to any sores that the parasites leave when they release.

From your experience what does it look like? Bacterial infection? Parasites? Fungus? My other 17 fish in the same pond are fine except for 15 Cent who has been resting on the bottom when he chews. He swims normally enough, with no white spots. None of the other fish have white spots.  Just giving you all the facts, ma'am. 

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Compare putting a saline solution vs. pure water in your irritated eye.  Which hurts?  While dry salt can make a wound hurt, a salt solution doesn't.  The 2% solution you used for the dip is only ~twice the concentration of salt in the blood of the fish.  A fish that just looks at you probably has no pain.  Pain makes a fish try to escape.  Giving you the stink eye likely means, "What did you do with my friends you big meanie?"

It looks like patches of thickened slime coat, which he should shed after the salt dips.  Fish produce excess slime in response to irritation.  This can be from external parasites or from something unpleasant about the water.  A scrape and scope should reveal any parasites.  I would expect that any vet could do this for you.  The salt may kill the parasites, but at the very least will expose them to medications.  

The heavy rains could have changed the composition of the water somewhat, and this can cause irritation.  Usually, a pH drop causes the problem, but you don't seem to have that.

 

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Thanks so much. The pH HAS been going down with the rain, which is a good thing. I'll put her back for the time being and keep an eye on her since it doesn't sound serious.

I can always scoop her up again and do a 2nd (and 3rd) salt dip if you'd recommend it. 

 

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I recommend you treat the pond with prazi.  All fish carry flukes, but healthy fish have immunity to their "pet" flukes.  Under conditions of physiological stress -- like an unstable pH -- the immune system weakens, and the previously well-controlled flukes proliferate.  When we see excess slime coat, we always suspect flukes.  One dose of prazi to the whole pond should lower the fluke population for all of the fish and put their immune systems back in control. 

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Okay I will. The last time I added prazi to the pond was about a year ago. Is it a recommended yearly task in spring?

The pond KH (4.5) reads very low tonight, we are getting a lot of rain in a short amount of time.  I just put 2 cuttlebones under the filter outflow. 
What is your preferred way to raise GH in your pond? I will be treating as soon as the Prazi arrives.

Thanks Sharon!

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I don't recommend dosing prazi if your fish show no problems.  In this case, you have a fish with problems that suggest flukes.

I have tap water from a limestone aquifer -- high pH, GH, and KH.  I don't mess with the water.  I drip in tap water (10% of the pond volume daily), which keep the water chemistry very stable, even with heavy rains.   Some people use crushed oyster shells in a bag in the filter or under the filter outflow.

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How are Lasagnas spots doing?

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2 hours ago, DawnMichele said:

How are Lasagnas spots doing?

:thumbup2:

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I'll check when there isn't a torrential downpour outside. But she's happy to be back in the pond, for sure. Acting normal. I'll be sure to report back.

 In the meantime I'll buy some praziquantel for their fluke treatment and some potassium bicarbonate to raise the KH without raising the pH. My plants should welcome the extra potassium. I hope it raises the GH a bit too.

I may throw 3 super Wonder Shells in, which I think are mostly Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) which I know will raise all three a bit (pH, KH, GH.)

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1 hour ago, mysterygirl said:

I'll check when there isn't a torrential downpour outside. But she's happy to be back in the pond, for sure. Acting normal. I'll be sure to report back.

 In the meantime I'll buy some praziquantel for their fluke treatment and some potassium bicarbonate to raise the KH without raising the pH. My plants should welcome the extra potassium. I hope it raises the GH a bit too.

I may throw 3 super Wonder Shells in, which I think are mostly Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) which I know will raise all three a bit (pH, KH, GH.)

I feel your pain on the rain :( 

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