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Shahbazin

Rainbow Sick, Swollen Throat, Help!

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 20
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 1.0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0 (KH & GH are usually 107.4 and 340.1)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.2 (KH & GH are usually 125.3 and 340.1)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Freshwater Master (drops)
      • * Water temperature? 70F
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 75 gallons, almost 2 years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aquaclear 110 with sponge prefilter, ATI hydro sponge 5 pro with SunSun JP23 powerhead
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? Every 3-5 days this month (had nitrate issues in Dec. with 8-10 day water changes, was doing every 7 days for a long time before that); about 80% changed (I drop water to fishes' dorsals) 
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 3 days ago (Monday), 80%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 4 fish, 5" SL
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Omega One seaweed for breakfast (2x4" piece), Aqua Maste Koi pellets 2-3x daily, frozen bloodworms weekly
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? no
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. None yet - I have salt & Metroplex around, can get other stuff quickly (many large fish stores nearby)
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Recovering from fin issue last month - splits almost healed, yellowing/scaley look gone, one prominent blood vessel still showing
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Rainbow is bottom sitting & breathing rapidly, both gills & gulping. He swims around quite a bit, but sinks if not swimming - will occasionally take mouthful of air, then blow out a bubble. Throat/gullet area appears swollen & sort of darkish red. I took him out, put him in a shallow glass dish, held him & looked in his mouth with a flashlight, but did not see any obstructions. Not interested in food.

Rainbow sitting
RainbowSickSit8664_zpsgm88sldw.jpg

Closeups of throat & fish
RainbowSickThroat8659_zpssyotprfh.jpg

RainbowSick8660_zpsrsp8teyj.jpg

RainbowSickFace8658_zpshdlmwft2.jpg

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I don't think this has anything to do with Rainbow's illness, but 20 ppm nitrate 3 days after an 80% water change suggests overfeeding.  You might cut back a bit.

I suggest treating Rainbow (in a QT) with metro and  one of oxytetracycline, kanoplex, or triple sulfa depending on what you can get quickly.  

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Thanks! Stick him in a clean plastic tub with an airstone? And can he be changed every other day, or every day needed? Or just test water to see? Should I heat him at all (house is about 65F)?

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Slowly bump that temperature up, maybe a degree an hour, max.  I'd like to see him at 72-74 I think any warmer would stress him with the changes in oxygen in the water.

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Thanks, Taryl! He's at 70F now, since his tank's heated, but if I pull him out, it'll be cooler - I do have an extra 50 watt heater I can put in the quarantine tub - it's OK to use those with plastic, right? I'm off to a local store to pick up the meds.

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Hope Rainbow feels better.

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Well, as of 4:30 PM, Rainbow has been in 15 gal. of water in a Sterilite tote, with a battery powered airstone, a dose of Kanaplex, a dose of Metroplex, & a couple of silk plants. I put the heater in to adjust, but haven't plugged it in yet. He doesn't look very happy, but he doesn't look any worse, either. He's doing about the same thing, bottom sitting & breathing rapidly, or taking occasional swims around his enclosure.

RainbowTub8665_zpsspimilfp.jpg

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It won't melt it, don't worry.

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I hope Rainbow feels better soon :hug

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In this size tub (15 gal. & Rainbow is 5 inches, not counting his tail), do you think he'll need daily 100% water changes? The meds say to dose every 2 days - can I re-dose if I change water that day? Or will he be OK for 2 days? Or do water tests & use Prime (if that'll do the job)? I haven't even tried to feed him yet, he wasn't interested when he was still in the main tank this morning. Should I worry about him eating something, or just let him fast for a few days? On a related tangent, I'm wondering if all the seaweed I've been feeding is contributing to the nitrate issues in the main tank - Rainbow had a nasty floaty episide last summer, but the seaweed has kept him straightened out - it *is* awfully messy, though. The pellets I feed them never even hit the ground.

Thanks all for the well wishes for Rainbow! He's a really neat fish, & we're all very worried about him. 

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I prefer to do 100% Daily Waterchanges in QT, keeps everything as clean as possible, but I have done it with WCs every 2 days and double prime in between. If you change the water every day then just dose the medicine again, you just want to keep the same amount of meds in the water for the whole duration of treatment :)

 

I hope Rainbow feels better soon! I love him!

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I agree with what Mandy said.  As for feeding, if he will eat feed him lightly in quarantine.  Soaked pellets or seaweed are fine, your choice.  If he won't eat once treatment commences we may have to hand feed him with a syringe, but we can give it a few more days before trying.  I imagine swallowing is extremely difficult for him.

 

Did you press the area gently and check for mechanical obstruction?  It looks like a tumor or localized infection but the texture will tell us more.  Is the swollen area firm and hard like a jelly bean or the tip of your nose or more squishy like a bubble or blister?

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I think it's an infection; I sort of pressed gently on the swollen part of his throat yesterday - it was more a "tip of the nose" feeling, but there's so much cartilage in the throat, any swelling just pushes on all those structures. I did look inside his mouth with a flashlight also, & didn't see anything. Today, he's still breathing heavily & bottom sitting. He does swim around some on the bottom, & he goes to the surface a bit as well - when he first saw me this morning, he was coming up to the top looking a bit hungry, but he kept sinking back down if not actively propelling himself - I will try him on some food later today, just before I change out his tub. I'm hoping he will start perking up a bit later today, as we near the 1st 24 hours mark for his meds.

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Rainbow ate some pellets this morning! He's still bottom sitting, & his lower tail fin is a little pinkish (from stress, I think - I am doing 100% water changes in his quarantine tank, so water quality should not be an issue - I will test it just before the change today to make sure), but he does swim around a bit. I felt the treatment I was doing was covering a lot of bases (thanks everyone, as I wasn't quite sure where to start!), but I was increasingly second guessing myself - what if he'd swallowed something, & I just couldn't see it? What if this was related to the swim bladder episode from last summer? What if I was missing something that could only be seen in person, but I just don't know enough about fish yet? So I checked around for fish vets, just in case, & ended up taking him in to see one yesterday afternoon. There's a local specialty & emergency clinic I've often used for my pets that turned out to have a Certified Aquatic Veterinarian (Todd R. Cecil, DVM, DAVP - Avian, Cert AqV ). 

The end recommendation was to stay with what I was doing & keep him on the Kanaplex, but drop the Metroplex, with a future option of going to stronger injectable antibiotics if needed. The vet also told me about how to inject a fish. We did do a couple of x rays to check for swim bladder problems, so a swim bladder infection, rickets, foreign objects, etc. could be ruled out. That all checked out OK.

Here's pics of Rainbow inside (he was sedated for these pics):

1.2.840.114387.1587396829.33606.20426.47

1.2.840.114387.3491400340.64685.17880.38

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I hope he continues to improve. He could not have a better caregiver!!

Sent from my Z963VL using Tapatalk

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Somehow posted to the wrong thread.

Sent from my Z963VL using Tapatalk

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Looks good!  It's true that most of the infections we see in fish are gram negative, but the metro is more to cover bases on the off chance it is parasitic or one of the rare staph infections in a fish :)

 

I'm glad you found some local professional help - that's wonderful and much better than free help on the internet from people who cannot use diagnostic tools to assess your animal.  We do what we can, but you've got the best option of all.

 

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It's really neat that you were able to get him to a vet. Those x-rays are quite fascinating. I hope that Rainbow is feeling better very soon!

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Koi people often treat infections with injections of baytril.

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How is Rainbow doing?

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On 2/2/2017 at 2:19 AM, FishyMandy said:

How is Rainbow doing?

Thanks for asking! He's doing better, but still not 100%. When he finished his round of KanaPlex, I asked the vet some questions via email, & ended up just watching him in quarantine with no meds for a day, but thought he didn't look quite as good (had been pretty much swimming around, although still would occasionally sit & breathe heavily - off meds, he was sitting more), so put him on SulfaPlex - he perked up again, & his tail, which had gotten more red on the edges, started clearing again. I do notice quite a bit of shed slime coat in his water, not sure what's up with that. His appetite's good. If he doesn't look better next week, I'd like to go to the injectable meds. I told the vet I wanted to do them if needed, but was concerned about the extra handling - he didn't really say yes or no in his response, so I want to pin him down on this. 

Rainbow buzzing around:
RainbowQ31Jan8694_zps83sdz9ff.jpg

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That's great.  Continue the current treatment.  You might add salt to help the restoration of the slime coat.  Start with 0.1% = 1 teaspoon per gallon.

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Glad Rainbow is doing better.

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On 2/4/2017 at 3:51 AM, shakaho said:

That's great.  Continue the current treatment.  You might add salt to help the restoration of the slime coat.  Start with 0.1% = 1 teaspoon per gallon.

So at 3 tsp per tablespoon, that would be 5 tablespoon for 15 gal?

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