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Amidala Buoyancy/Swimbladder? Please Help

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Hello again KoKolites,

 

Amida my giant Ryu ( 8 inches to tail) is having real trouble  righting herself. She was entirely upside down yesterday when I came home for Christmas celebrations- I righted her and since, although she has not gone completely belly up again she is hanging vertically and her belly is enormous and rock hard :(

 

I strongly suspect this has to do with gulping at the surface looking for floating food, so I will definitely switch back to making jelly food for them if you think it will help.

 

What I have to hand: Chloramine T, Octozin., Smaller QT  Tank 15 x 11 inch.

 

What I have already done: No food for 3 days, Peas this morning.

 

Her external symptoms: She is still hanging from her nose, she can swim, she can breathe, I put the food close to her mouth so she could feed , so I don't know if it's realistic to say she can 'feed herself'. Video here: 

 

 

Should I move her to a smaller tank, medicate, wait it out ?

 

I am keeping an eye on your other post regarding this too, asI know there is a smiliar on going on at the moment, so feel free to refer back to that if necessary!  

 

Thanks

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 40ppm
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 40ppm
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2-7.6   HPH 8.2
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2-7.6
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API DROPS
      • * Water temperature?   20C
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 128 L 2 years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqua Manta EFX 200 External Canister
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? Once a week 80 %
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  80 percent  5 days ago
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Chlorine remover Fluval
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Tetra Pond Mix once/ twice a week
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? NO
  • * Any medications added to the tank? NO
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.   Prazi  and salt for flukes. Over a year ago now.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Her ventral fins were alittle bloody at the base i think from struggling to right herself so hard?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?  She is hanging from her nose and swimming both on her back and sideways but can;t stay 'up'.

 

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Hope Amida feels better.

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How old is she?  What about the size of her tankmate?  Do her scales protrude when you view her from the top?

 

Look at the ingredients in the food you give her.  All of the tetrapond food I can find contains little more than cereal -- for example: "Wheat Starch, Corn Flour, Fish Meal, Feeding Oat Meal, De-hulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Gluten, Wheat Germ Meal..."  As a rule of thumb, we don't recommend foods that have more than one grain in the first four ingredients.

 

The enlarged, hard belly suggests a sluggish digestive tract.  We want to get the most natural greens into her as possible.  If you can possibly find duckweed, that is ideal.  if you can't get it right away, feed her leafy greens, cut in strips and lightly cooked, and green peas, cooked and with the skin removed. 

 

Then you want shallow water, just enough to cover her dorsal fin.  This makes staying upright as easy as possible.  You also want swimming space for her, so I recommend a shallow, spacious tub like this or this

 

I see you have a nitrate problem with your tap water.  She may have developed nitrate sensitivity which can cause a fish to flip over.  You can search for a nitrate filter (I have no idea how well they work) or obtain some reverse osmosis water to mix with your tap water to dilute the nitrate.

 

 

 

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Hi Shahako,

 

 Thanks for your quick response- OK

 

1. Apologies for the tap water reading- that should say 5ppm.

 

2. Amidala is  at least 4 years old, no protrusion, I think that's visible in  the video even id she is upside down,

 

3. Her tank mate Titus  is around 1.5 years old at 4 inches including tail.

 

4. Feeding her  Tetra Pond GoldFish Mix: 1 grain- ' cereal'-listed in first four ing, prior to  veg protien, derivates of veg origin , molluscs and crustaceans etc etc...

    ( for the last 6 months to a year).

 

3 q's

 

Any mods based on this?

Whilst waiting for the other container should I move her to the other tank filled half or leave her be?

How often should i feed the greens ( first feed this a.m)?

 

 

Thanks again!

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3 q's

 

Any mods based on this?

 

Whilst waiting for the other container should I move her to the other tank filled half or leave her be?

 

How often should I feed the greens ( first feed this a.m)?

 

 

Thanks again!

 

She is now in a six inch container, duck weed ordered.  It feels like she is desperate to stay at the surface and it looks like she is 'exhaling' a lot of bubbles but she is hardly swimming around at all now, barely moving...

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These ingredients make up a high quality goldfish food (Omega one):

 

Ingredients
  1. Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin
  2. Here's another (New Life Spectrum):
  3. Whole Antarctic Krill, Whole Fish, Whole Wheat Flour, Ulva Seaweed, Chlorella Algae, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Alfalfa, Scallops, Omega-3 Fish Oil, Spinosum Seaweed, Wakame Seaweed, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Vitamin C), Choline Chloride, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, and Manganese Sulfate
  4. These foods use grains (mainly wheat) as binders to hold the food together, not as food.  
  5. The first ingredient given for your food: cereals (meaning at least two cereals, and in all probability the ones listed individually that I quoted from another Tetrapond food)
  6. The first ingredient should always be fish meal, fish, or other aquatic animal food such as krill, shrimp, or other crustaceans, and that followed by algae and/or seaweeds.  

     

    Thanks for your quick response- OK 1. Apologies for the tap water reading- that should say 5ppm.   It sounds like your nitrate goes up faster than I would expect.  Maybe you should reduce the amount you feed.

    4. Feeding her  Tetra Pond GoldFish Mix: 1 grain- ' cereal'-listed in first four ing, prior to  veg protien, derivates of veg origin , molluscs and crustaceans etc etc...

        ( for the last 6 months to a year).

    3 q's

    Any mods based on this? I don't understand the question.

    Whilst waiting for the other container should I move her to the other tank filled half or leave her be?  Considering that the other tank is smaller than the 128L tank,(how big is it?), I don't think she would have enough water half filled.

    How often should i feed the greens ( first feed this a.m)? Leafy greens -- as much as she will eat.  Peas -- once a day.

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Thank-you for all that info!

 

'Mods' short for modifications not moderators. So you have answered that question!

 

She is now in the 6 inch tub. OK will feed more peas and greens and keep her in there.

 

I have a had a chance to feel her belly- just  before her anal fin her belly seems to just be skin and air very similar to what jenzaar was describing, 'like there is something missing'.

 

Should I put a filter in there and/or do daily water changes?

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I prefer to do daily changes, but if you have a small filter that will fit on the tub, you can certainly use it.  If we wind up needing to medicate, the nitrifiers may get zapped.

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OK, she has had her green feed this morning -will feed peas this afternoon.

 

But I am concerned about the red patches on her stomach and underneath her fins, they seem to be getting worse - she is not bottom sitting so it doesn't really makes sense.

I have doused her red bits with hydrogen peroxide- should I be thinking about antibiotics?

 

 

2yod4c5.jpg

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Seriously bad bruising on belly- what is going on? I know it's new years mods but please can I have some of you take a look asap.... my baby is not looking good  :no:

259vkhx.jpg

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Poor thing. I hope Amidala  feels better.

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Thanks Dawn, I'm quite worried tbh the festive period is not a good time to be upside down with a red belly....

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Is the area that is red exposed out of the water when she is floating?

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No, it's covered with water.

She is feeding well from the duck weed what I am worried about is the possibility the bruising is internal injury / compression of some kind...because her guts are inflamed... Although I guess when was bopping for greens yesterday it could have exposed her belly a little but I don't think it justifies that extent of worsening in one day ?!

I'm putting a little melafix in there until the kanaplex arrives.

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Amidala passed away this evening. Dissection revealed her liver had ruptured...

She's gone to join her old tank made cleo who passed nearly 3 days to the date 2 years ago... both bought at the same place.

I'm keeping fingers crossed that my new fish are from healthier stock... 

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Im so sorry

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Sorry to hear that she didn't make it. Good luck with the new guys.

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4 years for a large Ryukin actually isn't that bad. Ryukins don't usually live much longer than that. Maybe to 5 or 6 but not usually!

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I'm sorry she had internal problems - it happens and our ability to treat it is pretty much nil, even with surgery. She had s long run and was a beautiful fish :grouphug

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So sorry.  The that last belly picture combine with the mushy belly indicated no possibility of recovery, but I still hoped someone else would come up with a miracle treatment.

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Thank-you all for your sympathy :wacko: . I'm a little sad watching tiny Titus race around that massive tank all by his lonesome- it's strange.

 

Artic Mama, nice to hear from you again-She was a gorgeous girl wasn't she?  I suspect there were other things going wrong internally I couldn't see without a scrape but her insides looked  relatively healthy, swimbladder was fully inflated on both sides but nothing was obliterated or deformed...I found little bits of exploded liver everywhere in her system though, so god knows how long it must have been enlarged before it finally ruptured like that. She was never a great swimmer to be honest always off to one side but very hardy.

 

:hummm Her bruised belly still puzzles me a little, the necropsy didn't show any damage to her belly from the inside - so was it bacterial maybe? This is where I wish I was more of a scientist... 

 

Sharon, in future I will take your silence as *silly voice * predicted Doom lol . Personally I would much rather know if there is no hope of recovery, but like you when I saw this I readied myself for the worse.

 

It's a real pan in the butt having to troll the internet for fish meds that are so easily available in the states, as you will see on the international forum I posted the same problems about getting kanaplex etc at short notice a few years ago, UK vets and petstores seem to have no clue what I am talking about when I mention things like metro, oxy or kanaplex... and it's met with a certain amount of consternation.

 

I'm very surprised to hear that ryu's are only expected to live 5/6 years since they are known to live for upto 25 years? Is this only in breeder tanks and hyper pampered conditions :D ?

 

In either case I am thinking of switching back to gel  food and putting lil' T on repashy green with bloodworm supplements...

 

Back to Star fisheries soon for his new tank mate...  

 

 

Thank-you all!!

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Where did you hear of a ryukin that lived to 25 years?

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OK don't shoot... :teehee I'm no connoisseur but a breeder I most recently visited said something like that and had a 15 year old in there somewhere, he did stress 'under the right conditions' and it's pretty much all over the internet they they can live upto 15 years old give or take  a few years ( granted 15 and 25 is a big difference!).. .so yeah...I figure it must be a huge difference between potential life span and what is achievable in the average person's tank without designer air/soil/ food/ Ryu hotel/Show fish standards  :idont  

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It really is all over the internet that goldies can and should live for 15++ Years. 

However it's not very often we see it happen, especially with fancies. My oldest fish was a comet I had for 8.5 years who died in October. My oldest fancy was a 7 year old Fantail. Most of my fancies have been 6-7 years old when they died.

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