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Ich or Fungus? Please help

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Hi all,

I have a current thread going about my new telescope fish and his bad eye, but there was a little confusion on my other new fish too, so I am starting a new thread for this issue.  The telescope is now in his own tank to QT and heal.

 

I ordered 6 new goldfish over the holiday, and they were delivered on Tuesday via overnight shipping.  They all came from the same seller, at the same time, shipped together.  I put them in a 55g tank with a fully established biowheel 400 for quarantine.  Within the first day(last night), I noticed one of the ranchus has white spots all over his face and wen, and a few down his back.  They look similar to ich, but almost more fuzzy, too fuzzy to be ich.

No, this morning, he looks much worse, there are actual spots of fuz on his wen now, and a couple of the other goldies in the tank are showing spots of this too.

 

Is this ich, or some sort of fungal infection?  I need to start treating asap, but I am not sure what this is.........

 

Test Results for the Following:

  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank)  10
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) less than 5
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) don't have a test for ph yet
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)   
  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API drops
    • * Water temperature?  turned up to 80, normally at 76
    • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?  55g
    • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Biowheel 400, fully established for months on my main tank
    • * Will be doing EOD water changes of 50-75% for quarantine
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? last night, 100%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 fish, 2 oranda (4 inch), 2 ranchu (3 inch) 1 telescope (3 inch)
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime and Prazi
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Give the brand, type of food (sinking/floating pellets, gel food, steamed vegetable, etc.), and how frequently you feed each. hikari pellets, nls pellets, repashy, fresh veggies.  feed 1-2x daily, only what they can eat in a few minutes.
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? all 5 fish are new, no existing fish in the tank
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Mealafix and Pimafix the first day, then did a 100% water change last night
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  N/A
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? white fuzzy spots that are getting bigger and look like a fungus
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? sickest ranchu is bottom sitting and not eating.  The others all act normal and are eating fine.

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[/url]">http://D88F5C56-0D24-4795-991B-EFB64B265564_zps

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First off, who was the seller? I'd be livid getting sent new fish who were sick. Second, please raise the salt in this tank to .3% as well, following the instructions I linked you on the other thread. We may actually raise it to .5% in there, total, if nobody is acting too stressed with the .3%.

Do no other treatment just yet, the salt may inhibit it enough on its own. Is your prazi powdered or liquid?

Can you acquire API Furan-2 or the acriflavine like the liquid API Fungus Cure? They are usually available at Petsmart.

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Coast Gem USA is the seller, I am pretty disappointed myself.

I will treat with salt for now, but this definitely seems to be spreading relatively quickly.

I do have API Furan-2 on hand and will go to the petstore today and see what they have in stock for meds.

My Prazi is the liquid form.

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The seller told me the white things I am seeing are from the fish going to colder temperatures and that I need to squeeze them out like a pimple........

I don't know about all that, this definitely seems more like an illness to me.

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The seller told me the white things I am seeing are from the fish going to colder temperatures and that I need to squeeze them out like a pimple........

I don't know about all that, this definitely seems more like an illness to me.

I.... Don't think pimples would vector through the whole tank. Just my novice opinion.

Sent from my LGL62VL using Tapatalk

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Agreed, especially with this seeming to spread and get worse on them, I don't think it is pimples either.

Just crossing my fingers at this point and hoping things will turn around for these guys.  I am truly in love with them, I would hate to lose them after all of this.... :no:

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There can be some white wen funk in colder weather, but this looks worse than that. That is why I am having us do just salt right now though. It doesn't look like saprolegna (fungus) or ich tomites, so we are going to wait and see based on their behavior. The salt will inhibit anything fungal or parasitic from spreading without the stress side effects of medications, especially the wrong ones. If we DO need one it will be Furan 2 most likely, so it's s good one to have on hand, but this is by no means an emergency right now from what I see.

Can you gently scratch or rub the white off with a fingernail? Does it feel raised at all are just slimy like slime coat?

Edited by Arctic Mama

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I will try to scratch it off when I get home tonight and see what it does and how it feels.  So far, everyone has been acting normal except for the worst ranchu, who is not eating and seems to be bottom sitting a little. Hoping the salt will help him feel a little better so he will try to eat tonight.  Think I will feed some tasty frozen foods or a little repashy to see if I can entice him.

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The seller told me the white things I am seeing are from the fish going to colder temperatures and that I need to squeeze them out like a pimple........

I don't know about all that, this definitely seems more like an illness to me.

 

Wow.  Don't believe anything this one tells you. 

 

Start with salt as Arctic Mama recommended.  That might be all the treatment you need.

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I've never heard anybody ever recommend squeezing anything on a fish "like a pimple". That definitely doesn't sound like a good idea. Check out some of the vendor reviews of Coast Gem USA in the review section if you like. A few other members here have not been totally happy with their fish either. You're in good hands with Taryl.

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Thanks guys, I knew that sounded like a pretty strange thing to squeeze them off like pimples.  I love the fish I got, I just hope I can get them better.  I appreciate all the help :thumbup2:

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Update:

The little ranchu who seems to have whatever this is, is worse today.  Spots seem to be spreading on him and he is lethargic, and not eating at all.  He has not eaten since I have received him 3 days ago. 

Not sure if it is time for further treatment on him, or just wait it out and see how he does..................

 

In good news, the other fish are no longer showing any of this white spot/fungus, and are all happy and eating great.  Just not sure what this is, or what to do with this poor little guy.  I think I may end up losing him if I cant get him to turn around at all.

New pics this morning

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[/url]">http://1974B5E1-796E-468B-8C22-FB583CBC72F9_zps

[/url]">http://062B69AC-3AD8-4D64-AAA8-0F8602D194FD_zps

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Poor little guy. I'd consider moving your telescope, the injured but otherwise healthy one, into the quarantine with everyone else for normal treatment, and taking this little guy over to that hospital tank for further treatment. Did you ever figure out if the white gunk scrapes off easily or is gritty?

I'd like to staart the ranchu on some salt dips in addition to having him alone in the .3% salt quarantine - instructions here:

SALT DIP

1. dissolve 30 teaspoons salt/gallon of water (30 grams/Liter, or 113.7g/gallon). This concentration is 3%. Let it match the temp/pH of the tank, and make sure to add de-chlorinator. You can also use tank water, but because you are adding a lot of salt per gallon, you will need to heat up the water. Hence, it's crucial that you cool it back down.

2. prepare a holding tank. This is a tank that is pH/temp matched with the main tank, and has been de-chlorinated. This can be a 5 gallon tub, with bubblestone, or something bigger.

3. make sure you have some sort of timer

4. gently lift the fish out of the tank, and place into temp/pH matched salt solution.

5. start timer.

6. if the fish stays continues to stay upright, or tilts over but can get back up, keep him/her in the salt solution for exactly 5 minutes.

7. remove fish from the salt, and place in holding tank. The reason why we do this is to: 1) give the fish a place to recover by him/herself, and 2)to let the fish purge out ammonia/wastes in a place that is not the main tank.

8. if the fish starts to lose balance and cannot get back before the minutes, remove him/her and place in holding tank, as described in #6.

9. after 1-2 hours, the fish can be moved back to the main tank. He/She might still be disoriented, but should be fine.

Do this once daily, sloughing off that slime coat should help with any further treatment :)

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As for the next step, this little guy may well need something like Seachem Paraguard as a nexf step with the salt:

https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116060608-ParaGuard-250ml/dp/B0002A5X7I/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

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Ok, I think it is a great idea to move the telescope back to the qt with the others, and put him in the hospital tank by himself.

Just so I am clear,

After the dip, I put him in a holding tank for 1-2 hours with NO salt in it, right?  Then back to the hospital tank?

 

I could not catch him last night (for being sick, he still got his little wiggle but moving when I came after him, lol) and I didn't want to stress him out too much further by chasing him.  I will pull him tonight and try to scrape that stuff before I move him and get his dip ready.

 

Thank you so much for all of your help, I am so worried about this little guy.  Crazy how easily we get attached to these guys, my heart just breaks for him and I hate that he is suffering :ill

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Ok, do you think Petsmart or Petco would carry the Paraguard or should I just go ahead and order online?  I can expedite it, but being a Friday, I am guessing I still wouldn't get it until Monday.

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Also, if I am ordering/buying meds, are there any other meds I should grab to keep on hand?  I currently have General Cure, Furan-2, Metronidazole, Meth blue, Melafix, Pimafix and liquid Prazi

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Ok, do you think Petsmart or Petco would carry the Paraguard or should I just go ahead and order online?  I can expedite it, but being a Friday, I am guessing I still wouldn't get it until Monday.

They *might*, but it really depends on the store. Its worth a look or call if the drive isn't too bad.

Otherwise just order it online and do salt dips in the meantime. You can dose some meth blue in the water as well, which will inhibit any fungus or secondary bacterial infections developing. It plays very nicely with salt.

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As for other medications, you have a great start! I really like Seachem products and usually recommend people keep metroplex and kanaplex on hand as well. Those, along with Furan 2, prazi, and Paraguard are the spine of my fish pharmacy.

Do you have epsom salt? Plain epsom is something we use commonly in addressing dropsy, and dirt cheap, so if you can pick up a bag at the grocery store (usually over by the bandaids and peroxide and arthritis creams) or order some from Amazon it is a good idea.

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Thank you!  I will be sure to pick up some Epsom Salt too.

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Ok. I did a 100% water change on both the qt tank and the hospital tank and moved the telescope back to the qt tank. He seems fine.

The ranchu looked just as bad tonight as he did this morning, except now he is developing red on his body along his back and underbelly, like blood splotches under the skin. I did a salt dip as directed above, the white stuff seems to scrape off of him pretty easily with my fingernail. He's now in the hospital tank with .3% salt and methylene blue dosed as per the bottle instructions. The water looks pretty blue, I triple checked the bottle and did not overdose, but I think I am just nervous.

He looked much better after his dip (the white stuff mostly came off him, but not all of it) and he didn't seem to have any trouble with the dip.

He seems to be a little more active now in the hospital tank by himself. Crossing my fingers he survives the night.

And petsmart didn't have Paraguard, so I will order it tonight. Should be here hopefully Monday.

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Keep up the good work.

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Well guys, I think maybe this was all to much for him. He started floating hard about a half hour ago and quickly passed away. ????

SIP little guy. I'm sorry I couldn't save you.

Thanks everyone for the help and support. Hopefully my other newbies will be ok.

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I'm sorry he went - weakened fish often do that during treatment, it's not uncommon, which is why we don't jump for the meds. Keeping stress low is a key to healing and it's really a balancing act whether less intervention or more gives their bodies the best chance. You did absolutely great and it was NOT your fault you were sent sick stock.

Send your previous pictures to Coast Gem if you haven't already and seek a refund and/or a new fish. Keep your salt and heat quarantine up on everyone else and begin prazi when you feel comfortable. Giving them a week won't hurt anything unless you're ready to dive right in. I'm sorry for your loss and hope the rest of the fish fare well under your care :)

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Sorry you lost him :(

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