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titch

Help! I'm not sure what I'm doing...

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Firstly, apologies that my first post is in the Disease section – how embarrassing...

 

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) – 0.25ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tank) – 0ppm

* Nitrate level(Tank) – 20ppm

* Ammonia Level(Tap) – 0.25ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tap) – 0ppm

* Nitrate level(Tap) – 5ppm. Nitrates out my tap are generally 20-40ppm so I use a Pozzani filter to filter the water into tubs which I treat with Prime and usually let sit for 24hrs before adding to the tank. The ‘tap’ figures above are the levels in the water that has been filtered, treated and stood.

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) – 7.4ph

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) – 7.4ph

 

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API freshwater master kit (drops)

* Water temperature? – 25C (77F)

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? Juwel Rio 240 (approx. 240l) running for 2.5 years

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Fluval 204 (680lph) and internal Juwel Bioflow 3.0 (600lph)

* How often do you change the water and how much? At least once a week. 90 litres at the weekend with a midweek change of approx. 60 litres.

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Last night (Thursday) 60 litres

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 in total. Orange Fantail “Dad” approx. 12 years old (5” body), Chocolate Oranda “Piggy” approx. 2 years old (6” body), White Oranda “Winston” approx.. 2 years old (4” body), 3 nerite snails

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Tetra Gold Japan, Hikari Oranda Gold (saturated using a pellet pump), peas a couple of times a week, occasional veggie usually lettuce/cucumber

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? Melafix and Pimafix dosing daily from 9/10 to 14/10. Since then, I have been performing salt dips on White Oranda as I thought (hoped desperately) that this would sooth and improve his red patches/tail streaking. So far…..not. Sat 15/10 - 1% for 5 mins, Sun 16/10 – 2% for 5 mins, Mon 17/10 - 3% for 1.5mins, Tues 18/10 - 3% for 1.5mins, Wed 19/10 - reduced to 2% for 5 mins, Thurs 20/10 - 2% for 5mins.

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. None other than above.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Main issue is with White Oranda – displaying red/bloody/ragged fins, red patch to one cheek and under chin, strange raised patch to one side (almost like raised scales) and as of yesterday a weird white mucus out the top of his left gill and a small fuzzy pimple on wen (fuzz drops off leaving red spot and then grows back). A week ago, he had a red colouration on his wen but this has subsided somewhat. The Fantail has some red streaking to his tail but has displayed this for as long as I remember (he is also missing part of his tail, no doubt due to poor husbandry and horrific tank dimensions in his early years). The Chocolate Oranda is also showing a small red patch on his tail.

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

All fish are swimming well, are hungry (as ever) and feeding normally. White Oranda has an occasional mad dart about but no real flicking/scraping on things (that I’ve seen). All fish display yawning but not constant and more so following a water change. The Chocolate Oranda has been seen nibbling on White Oranda’s tail and side.

 

I’d really like to ask for help with Winston. My plan of attack was for last night’s salt dip to be his last, rest him for today and start a fluke treatment tomorrow (Saturday) as I had thought that might be the issue (I’ve never, ever treated the tank for flukes, which I now understand should be a regular thing, right?). Following that, if there was no improvement, I would  treat for finrot.

 

However, I really don’t know what I should be treating for and this is all ‘finger in the air’ guess work.

 

Background – this all seemed to start when I altered my water change procedure at the end of June/beginning July. I had always syphoned water into buckets, carried them out to empty…backwards and forward… and then using a jug poured the new water (which had been treated and stood for 24hrs) in by hand. I then read about the Python Syphon and figured this would stop the need for buckets and save my back!!

I hooked it up to the tap, removed the water, temperature matched the tap water and filled the tank back up, dosing with Prime as it flowed in. It also meant I could do larger water changes, which could only be a good thing right? I was changing maybe 70-90% a week in one go (thinking I was doing the right thing). That’s when I noticed Winston’s tail becoming streaky, so I kept an eye on water parameters (something I hardly ever did – please don’t shout at me) and saw the nitrates were really high. I mean REALLY high, sometimes 80+. So I did more water changes trying to control them, but that didn’t help.

 

That’s when I bought the Pozzani nitrate filter and went back to the bucket method.

 

After seeing high Nitrates I decided to go bare-bottom and removed the substrate (pea gravel) gradually over about 7-10 days.

 

Water changes this week have been more frequent because of the recent Salt Dips where I used tank water for both the dip and holding tanks. I have been replacing 50-60 litres of water a day this week with 3 larger 90 litre changes over the weekend prior.

I really love my little guys, so you would think I’d have some here sooner asking for help…but I’m here now and that’s the main thing….

 

Can anyone please advise where I’m going wrong and where I should go from here please?  :help:

 

Will try to add photos...

 

 

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Hope this works...

 

The first 2 pictures was taken a week or so ago, showing Winston's red wen (which has cleared up somewhat) and tail (which still looks the same).

A_zps9omnjic5.jpg

D_zpsgy1ofmtb.jpg

 

 

Next pictures were taken last night...

B_zpslbtfjjed.jpg

C_zpsfo9r6ltq.jpg

E_zpsi3jljtqj.jpg

F_zpsowepypz8.jpg

 

Piggy's red patch on tail

G_zps6oqsfrjs.jpg

 

Dad's deformed, streaky tail

H_zpspqlmtdpl.jpg

 

Full tank shot

I_zpsiw0u0qjl.jpg

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Welcome to Kokos!  Clearly you have done a fine job of taking care of your fish to have such large fish and one very senior fish.

 

Thank you so much for filling out the whole form!  Few do that on their first try.

 

Please read our guidelines for healthy goldfish.  You will see recommendations for tank volume, filter rate, and water changes that will improve your water quality, and I believe your primary problem is water quality.  This produces stress, which weakens the immune system and makes the fish more susceptible to parasites and pathogens.  I see that you have greatly increased your water changes.  I'd like you to continue changing 60l daily.  If you have enough nitrate-free water, also a large change weekly.  Please clean your filters at least weekly.

 

Your fish appear to have external bacterial infections.  You correctly observed that these occur at the site of fluke attachments.  The Melafix and Pimafix don't do much other than soothe minor injuries, as you have observed.  I'd like you to stop using that.  

 

Please get some praziquantel (Fluke Solve) and treat the entire tank with that for at least two weeks.  You can get the soothing effect of the "fixes" with salt at 0.3% in the tank.  

 

I'm going to ask Koko to guide you in treating the tank with colloidal silver, which should help with the lesions.

 

What antibacterial treatments can you find?  

Edited by shakaho

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Thank you so much for your reply Shakaho!! 

 

I ceased using Melafix and Pimafix on Friday 14th October, so hopefully there are no more traces of this in the water.

 

I currently have Waterlife's Sterazin and Myxazin, but that's it I'm afraid. Could I use the Sterazin as an alternative to Fluke Solve?

 

I've not heard of the colloidal silver before - is this readily available in the UK?

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Thank you so much for your reply Shakaho!! 

 

I ceased using Melafix and Pimafix on Friday 14th October, so hopefully there are no more traces of this in the water.

 

I currently have Waterlife's Sterazin and Myxazin, but that's it I'm afraid. Could I use the Sterazin as an alternative to Fluke Solve?

 

I've not heard of the colloidal silver before - is this readily available in the UK?

 

 

Yes you can find it on Amazon hun..... try and find one that is at least 50ppm or more. :)

 

the other thing that is bothering me about your set up hun, is that internal filter. I personally have had nothing but problems using those in my goldfish tank and Molly tank... Im thinking it might be the source of your problems :(

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Oh no, really? That's not good  :(

 

Ideally, I'd love to splash out on a new 6ft tank and FX6 filters, but funds just won't allow for it at the moment but I can dream.

 

I've found the silver on Amazon but there are loads to choose from!! Do you recommend a particular brand? Also, how much will I need for the course?

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Oh no, really? That's not good  :(

 

Ideally, I'd love to splash out on a new 6ft tank and FX6 filters, but funds just won't allow for it at the moment but I can dream.

 

I've found the silver on Amazon but there are loads to choose from!! Do you recommend a particular brand? Also, how much will I need for the course?

 

You could always get a AC filter 110 would do good for your tank :)

 

Like this kind :)

 

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Path-Silver-Wings-Supplement/dp/B000BSZBHS/ref=sr_1_9_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1477062763&sr=8-9&keywords=colloidal%2Bsilver&th=1

 

There are alot :)

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Thanks Koko - I've found the Natural Path Silver Wings silver in 250ppm (118ml bottle) - hope this is ok? It won't be delivered until at least Tues/Wed next week though  :(

 

Thanks for the filter recommendation, I'll definitely look into that.

 

Do you know if the Waterlife Sterazin I have is a suitable alternative to Fluke-Solve? Should I start treating with this or hold out until I find Fluke Solve?

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Thanks Koko - I've found the Natural Path Silver Wings silver in 250ppm (118ml bottle) - hope this is ok? It won't be delivered until at least Tues/Wed next week though  :(

 

Thanks for the filter recommendation, I'll definitely look into that.

 

Do you know if the Waterlife Sterazin I have is a suitable alternative to Fluke-Solve? Should I start treating with this or hold out until I find Fluke Solve?

 

Im thinking no but I want my Mods to check for me as I cant find the ingredients

on this stuff :o

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Thanks Koko - I've found the Natural Path Silver Wings silver in 250ppm (118ml bottle) - hope this is ok? It won't be delivered until at least Tues/Wed next week though  :(

 

Thanks for the filter recommendation, I'll definitely look into that.

 

Do you know if the Waterlife Sterazin I have is a suitable alternative to Fluke-Solve? Should I start treating with this or hold out until I find Fluke Solve?

 

Please give us the active ingredients of Sterazin as indicated on the package.

 

You may find Fluke-Solve in your local fish store.  A few sources I found:

 

https://www.orchardfisheries.co.uk/fluke-solve

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vetark-Professional-Fluke-Solve-Aquarium/dp/B00AVTACQW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477076581&sr=8-2&keywords=fluke+solve

 

http://queni-koi.co.uk/fluke-solve-325-p.asp

 

 

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Welcome to Kokos and hope your Goldfish feel better.

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Thank you for the fluke solve links Shakhao.

The active ingredients in the sterazin are Acriflavine 340mg/l, malachite green 545mg/l and piperazine 2040mg/l.

Thank you DawnMichele - I have everything crossed theyll be fighting fit again with the help of Shakaho & Koko.

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That medication isn't as gentle on the fish as Fluke Solve, so I suggest you hold out for the latter.  Meanwhile add salt to your tank to 0.3% following the procedure described here.

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Ok, thank you, I'll hunt down some fluke solve ASAP.

I'll be doing a water change in the morning so will add salt following that and should be up to 0.2% by tomorrow night. When I do the water change on Sunday morning should I add enough salt to get up to 0.3% factoring in what I've removed during the change as well?

Then on each water change just replace the salt I've removed each time?

Also, am I ok to use salt at the same time as fluke solve? How long should I keep the salt at 0.3% for?

Sorry if these are silly questions, I just want to be sure i understand properly.

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Yes

Yes

Yes

 

You can continue the salt through the Fluke-Solve treatment.

 

The quality of your questions ranks far above average. :)

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Fab!! Thank you.

Feeling positive things are on the up!!!!

Let the med/salt hunt commence.

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Fab!! Thank you.

Feeling positive things are on the up!!!!

Let the med/salt hunt commence.

:happydance

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That medication isn't as gentle on the fish as Fluke Solve, so I suggest you hold out for the latter.  Meanwhile add salt to your tank to 0.3% following the procedure described here.

 

Just a quick update and question...

 

I have been adding the salt over the weekend and am up to the desired 0.3%. I'll continue with water changes and replacing the salt as I go.

 

I visited all my local fish stores on Saturday hunting down the Fluke-Solve to no avail. Many of the people that I spoke to thought I was crazy trying to buy this and offered me various alternatives, but I stood firm and left empty handed.

 

I've managed to find some online which will do same day dispatch for next day delivery, but I just want to confirm before I hit Buy It Now...

 

How much will I need for the 2 week course?? I think I read somewhere that 1g will treat 250litre (roughly the size of my tank), but do I treat once a week, once a day??

 

Could someone let me know the procedure for using Fluke-Solve please and advise what size packet I need to buy (10g, 50g or 100g) for this treatment?

 

Apologies for even more questions, I'm sure I'll get the hang of it soon  :rolleyes:

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Follow the instructions on the package.  Get 10 grams.  

 

Remove any carbon from your filter, since this will remove the medication.  Add the recommended amount to your tank.  After one week, do a large water change and repeat the dosage.  At the end of the second week, resume your normal maintenance.  

 

This medication won't hurt your fish even if you overdose.  It very specifically kills flatworms, such as flukes and tapeworms. Your fish may "pout" a bit from the dying flukes or the terrible taste of prazi, but will get over it.

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Pout?! Can't wait to see that! I'll have the camera at the ready.   :teehee

 

Thank you, I'll get the 10g pack ordered today.

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They lay on the bottom and give you the stink eye.

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OK, I finally have the Fluke-Solve and Silver... why does a 'next day' delivery always go wrong when it's something you really need?!

 

Anyhow, it's here now.

 

I've been carrying out daily water changes this week of 60 litres and replacing the salt as I go (so I'm still at 0.3%).

 

I plan on getting my nitrate free water ready tomorrow for a BIG water change on Saturday (>50%), replacing the salt and dosing with the FS (approx. 1g).

 

Just so I'm sure - I don't do anything for a week once I've dosed with the FS, correct? No water changes, no additional salt?? Basically do nothing until another BIG water change a week later and re-dose. Is that right?

 

Also, Koko - could you please let me know what I should do with the silver? I've bought the Natural Wings silver at 250ppm (120ml bottle with a dropper).

 

Thank you!!!

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Since you have had an ammonia reading in the tank, you need to test for ammonia at least every second day.

 

If your ammonia reads zero, you don't have do anything. 

 

If the ammonia reads no more than 0.5, dose with Prime.

 

If you get more than 0.5 ppm ammonia, do a water change.  If this occurs during the first 4 days of treatment, replace the FS and salt you have removed.  If it occurs during the last three days, just replace the salt you removed in the change.

 

The reasons: 

 

The salt will protect the fish from the effects of nitrite, so you don't have to worry about that. 

 

Prime (at the regular dosage for the full tank) will inactivate up to 1.0 ppm of ammonia, but only for a day or two. 

 

Praziquantel has probably lost its potency after 4 days, so don't bother replacing it until the second week.

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I would like you to do a Silver dip every day for a week. Get a 2 gallon container, place 3 drops in the water let the fish sit for 3-4 mins in the water. then place the fish pace to the main tank hun :)

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