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KimA.

Is This Pineconing And What To Do? Crappy Video.

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Barney Oranda is staying at the surface and doesn't look good. I noticed the scales last night during a water  change. My Ryukin  is also gulping air and two others are hanging out at the bottom.  Nothing has changed except I'm feeding them less.

 

Nitrite tank       0

Nitrite TAP       0

 

Ammonia tank  0

Ammonia TAP  0

 

Nitrate  tank      30-40

Nitrate  TAP      30-40

 

PH tank            7.8

PH TAP            7.4

 

API Master kit

 

Water temp  70 degrees

 

Tank  125 gallons

 

Cycled 3 months ago

 

2 Aquaclear  110  HOB filters rinsed every 6 days

 

Water changed 90%  every third night

 

Last water change last night

 

seven goldies  1 1/2 inch to 2 1/2 inches

 

Prime added every water change and every second night

 

Feeding once a day

 

Last fish added from  Quarantine tank a month ago.

 

Dosed with a six day treatment of Prazi  last week since they've never been dewormed.

 

I'll post the video in a minute. Thanks!

 

Edited by KimA.

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I should add that I vacuum every square inch of the sand when I change the water.

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Thank you for the information you provided.  Please copy and fill out the form below.  We know where to find the information on this form.  You can find some advice on filling out the form here.  I have put your info in the form.

 

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 30-40
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 30-40
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.8
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
      • * Water temperature? 70F
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 125 3 months
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 AC 110
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? 90% every 3 days
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday 90%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 7, 1.5-2.5 Please indicate if this includes the tail.
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?  once a day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? Last one a month ago, after quarantine
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. 6 days of prazi last week.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? I noticed the scales last night during a water  change.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?  Barney Oranda is staying at the surface and doesn't look good.  My Ryukin  is also gulping air and two others are hanging out at the bottom.

     

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Barney definitely looks like he's at the start of Dropsy.  I would move him to a QT, add 1/2 Teaspoon of Epsom per 10 gallons and raise the heat to about 80 F if you have a heater.  Make sure there is good aeration.  What antibiotics do you have on hand?

 

The other fish may just be pouting from the Prazi.  We will want to observe them over the next few days.

Edited by Jared

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Do you actually have 30-40 ppm nitrate in your tap water or was that a typo?  Is this well or municipal water?

 

Why do you add Prime between water changes when your tank has already cycled?  

 

All of the fish showing different symptoms at the same time usually indicates toxicity, rather than disease/parasites.  Think hard for anything that might have contaminated the water.   If you have municipal water, call the water company and ask if they have changed anything in the water treatment.  Ask specifically about extra chlorine, which is the most likely change.  Give the tank a full dose of Prime, in spite of my question above.  

 

The video isn't clear enough for me to say conclusively that the fish has pineconed, but it looks fuzzy, so I assume you can see the scales sticking out.

 

What medications do you have on hand?  Do you have a 10 gallon container for a quarantine tank?

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I'm sorry, but I can't get it to copy.

 

The well water has always had high nitrate levels. I was told by Seachem that Prime will help control it for 48 hours.

 

The fish  get Repashy Soilent  Green and quartered  peas.   They also  get rinsed blood worms  twice a week.

 

The only med I have on hand is Prazi.

 

I can get any medication  tonight.  My  quarantine tank is broken, so I may have to dose the whole tank.

 

Sorry about the late response.  I'm sneak typing at work. :help:

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I would highly suggest buying the new QT tank or storage tote if some sort. It will save you a ton of money in medication as well as treat only the sick fish.

Treating healthy fish is not good for them. It builds immunity to the medication as well as other things but I do not quite remember. I think I do but I do not want to say anything incorrect.

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I was told that a five gallon bucket will do. You will have to halve the medication and double the water changes, but it is better than trying to treat the entire tank.

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What are "rinsed" bloodworms?  What is the source of theses bloodworms??

Edited by Jared

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Rinsed means that I don't drop a frozen  piece into the tank.  Rinsing them in a net removes  anything you don't want added to the tank water. I buy them frozen at Petsmart.

 

I'll by a tote at Home Depot tonight. 

Edited by KimA.

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Hope Barney feels better.

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Jared~  I have a backup heater, but how safe is it to use in a plastic  tote?      I have a huge glass  bowl I use for making bread, but it's only about 3 gallons.

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Jared~  I have a backup heater, but how safe is it to use in a plastic  tote?      I have a huge glass  bowl I use for making bread, but it's only about 3 gallons.

Okay, the heater isn't absolutely necessary.  

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A five gallon bucket would not be adequate.  You want 10 gallons for a hospital tank.  I like this for the swimming space, but if you lack space, one of these works.

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Fair. I was just saying she could use that if that's absolutely all she had. I thought it would be better than trying to treat an entire 100+ gallon tank. She can get the tote so of course that's better.

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I would put him in the tote with an airstone and add the Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate).  Then, see if you can get Seachem Metroplex and either Kanaplex or Oxytetracycline.  There is some debate about using Kanaplex for dropsy, because overuse of this drug can damage the kidneys.  However, it is also one of the only antibiotics that is well enough absorbed to effectively treat drospy when the cause of the pineconing is actually a bacterial infection.  Oxytetracycline is harder to acquire and may not be as effective as more gram negative bacteria are resistant to it.  Time is of the essence, so I will let you decide which of these to use.  Whichever you can get faster is probably the better choice.

 

Treating dropsy is difficult as the prognosis isn't usually good.  If the dropsy is caused by a bacterial infection, antibiotics may help.  If it is caused by polycystic kidney disease or some other ailments, it won't respond to treatment.  Just FYI :(

Edited by Jared

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One more thing...the Metroplex and Kanaplex will work even better if you feed it to the fish.  This can be done by bonding these two antibiotics with Seachem Focus (which is made for this purpose) to a food such as a sinking pellet or frozen bloodworms.  However, you can also just add these meds to the water.  If you add the Metroplex to the water, use the upper dosage (2 scoops per 10 gallons).

Edited by Jared

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Thanks for all the help. hopefully, Petsmart  will have some of those  medications.     I'll start when I get home from work.  I take it the meds work better in a warm tank?

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All we have around here is Petsmart and they carry    Melafix, Erythromycn, and T.C  Tetracycline. 

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Thanks for all the help. hopefully, Petsmart  will have some of those  medications.     I'll start when I get home from work.  I take it the meds work better in a warm tank?

 

All we have around here is Petsmart and they carry    Melafix, Erythromycn, and T.C  Tetracycline. 

Hold on a sec.

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All we have around here is Petsmart and they carry    Melafix, Erythromycn, and T.C  Tetracycline. 

None of those are suitable.  I would try to order the others I suggested online and get express shipping.

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Should I start  the salt treatment tonight?   Would regular Tetracycline   be okay until the other arrives?

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Okay to treat the salt water with Prime?

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Make sure to use Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate), not regular salt (sodium chloride).  Prime is fine to add.  Do not use Tetracycline.

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