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GoldHaven

longevity of fancy goldfish

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If this is the wrong place for this topic feel free to bump.  I love the round look of fancy goldfish and am getting ready to buy my first imported, high quality pets.  I was considering the butterfly tail telescope but want a fish who can grow bigger and be more hardy.  My next choice is the ryukin.  I have always been drawn to them. 

 

I understand ryukins are especially prone to buoyancy problems.  Is this inevitable with a ryukins as they age or can it be prevented with excellent care and water quality?  I will have 3 in a 75 gallon tank with 2 dojo loaches, 1 peppered loach, and a bristlenose plec.  My filters will be 2 SunSun 304B and my weekly water change will be 75% or more.  I'm only going to feed soft foods like Repashy gel food and frozen foods.  I'll feed 2-3xs a day, only what the fish will eat in 1 min or so.  I heard it is good to have a fasting day once a week so the fish can completely clean themselves out, so I will probably do that.

 

If I am going to spend the kind of money quality fish are worth I want some that have the potential to be long lived.  Does anyone have a ryukin who made it to the 10-15 year mark and beyond?  Is there such thing as a show quality fantail that maybe isn't quite as compressed as the ryukin?  I would even consider something quality and single tail like Bristol shubunkins, but I really do like the looks of the ryukins better.  I just want to have them for a long time.  I'm looking for hardiness in show quality fish.  An impossible dream?

 

I think Dandy Orandas has an auction starting tonight.  I won't be ready to buy for another week or two, but can't wait to see what he has to offer.

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I don't fast except for when I am camping or something like that. I do feed small meals.  

In my experience anything I have ordered online has only lived months. I have a feeling those are much older given how large many of them are then the ones I get from the pet shop and all the shipping is stressful on them.

On the other hand I have goldfish from the pet shop that is over three years old.   At least that is how long Luna has been in my house.  Others that are around two.

Fantails give me the least amount of trouble.

I have one ryukin that is about a year old.  So far no issues. It is still smallish.

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"Does anyone have a ryukin who made it to the 10-15 year mark and beyond?"

 

no.. not many goldfish live that long. the ones that usually do are carp like. standard commons, comets. and that is if they have had an uneventful life, and mostly those that reside in ponds.

 

ornamental goldfish usually give between 3-5 years of a good life. beyond that is a bonus and again, given that they have had an uneventful life. it will be unrealistic to expect more from them. 

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Hidr, have you ever bought from Dandy Orandas?

 

Helen, thank you for such an honest answer.  It is hard for me to spend around $100 for a fish that is not going to be around that long.  I may have to give single tails a harder look.

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I did when they were Goldfish connection.

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Honestly, even looking around this site, I can't say that Ryukins seem to be prone to the most swim bladder issues. I'd think Orandas, Telescopes, and even Ranchu are more prone than Ryukins for swimming problems. I only got into this hobby last October and I have bought mostly low quality fish, so I have no personal experience with lifespans, but of my two original fish, one is still alive and totally healthy, and one recently died after being riddled with problems. Both are Ryukins. I think it can be random like that. Ryukins are my favorites too, but I won't buy another adult fish again. I just really love the joy of watching them grow up etc. I have one fish that's 2+ years old that I've had for probably 6 months or so. She ate gravel and barely was able to pass it and has dealt with periodic swim bladder issues ever since. Learning curve, she was an excellent swimmer with no issues at all when I got her. I don't think many fancies live anywhere near as long as 10 years, though it would be great if they did.

PS - My year old healthy Ryukin is only 23 grams or so. Teensy.

Edited by mjfromga

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I think Helen hit the nail on the head.. It's unrealistic to expect any more than a few years from a fancy. 

DO fish have already lived more of their lives than a small one you'd find at the LFS. An alternative is to find US breeders - one less trip the fish have to endure, and more often you can get them smaller.

 

Is there any reason you're going for show quality? Some store-bought fish are just as beautiful, and earn equally special places in their keepers' hearts. :teehee 

 

Good luck, whichever way you go :D

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My oldest "fantails" (actually fancy pond mutts, but phenotypically fantails) are now over four years old and perfectly healthy.  I haven't lost more of these than long-bodied fish of the same age.  Unfortunately I've never kept records on exactly how many I have and how many died. 

 

My original fancies were PetSmart products -- a fantail, a ryukin nymph, a pearlscale, and an oranda.  They went into a container pond before they were a year old and proceeded to produce vast quantities of babies.  The purchased fish lasted three to four years with the advantage of pond life.  The subsequent generations appear to be every bit as vigorous as the long-bodied fish.

 

Oddly enough, considering their extremely compressed bodies, ryukins don't seem to have more problems with buoyancy than other common fancies, although they don't appear to live very long.  Fancy goldfish in general have high incidence of buoyancy issues unless they live in a pond. 

 

I recommend you avoid imports (which means most on-line and pet store sales) and buy from a breeder.  Breeders sell some very high quality fish for less than you pay for a sick imported cull at a pet store. 

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If you want some Bristols, look here.  A highly respected breeder selling show-quality fish dirt cheap within a day's drive of you.

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This is an interesting conversation.  I'd not thought about lifespans of the fancy, though i do recall reading that the more common long bodies ones in ponds live a long time (read somewhere up to 40 years but that may be for koi).

.  A highly respected breeder selling show-quality fish dirt cheap within a day's drive of you.

I'll be buying bristol shubunkin from him once my 75g tanks are all prepped.

Edited by AquaAurora

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My current oldest fish is a fantail and I've had her for 7 years.  My next oldest fish is 4 years old.  I really enjoy getting them small and watching them grow.  :D

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My oldest fish that have passed have been about 7 years old. Two Teles and a Fantail.

My oldest fish right now is my comet, I've had him about 8.5 years.

 

The fish I've had the least problems with are fantails and the single tails comets/shubunkins.

I've had most problems with teles/moors even though they are my favourite

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Shakaho,  I was so excited when I saw the link about the Bristols.  I have been looking all over the web for someone who could sell me those!  The ones in your link are only 3 hours from me.  And the prices are awesome. I messaged the seller to see what their policy is about letting people choose their own fish. 

 

Bristol shubunkins could be the best of both worlds for me.  I can get quality well bred fish with some "fanciness" to them and have the long lived pets I want at the same time.  They don't have to be show quality, just nice to my eye.

 

I think Dandy Oranda's fish could be great for someone who wants to jump right into breeding goldfish since his fish are already so mature.  But I want to start with babies and have the fun of growing them up myself.

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I have bought fish from my local, independent pet store, Dandy Orandas and Raingarden.  I have to say that my fish from the local pet store are just as beautiful and live just as long (or longer) as the ones that I bought online.  The main difference is that I was able to find the more rare varieties including my Shukin online.  The last fish I purchased online had problems from the start and died only 4 weeks after I got it.  So, unless I want an extremely rare variety, I will probably buy from my local store moving forward.  I just can't justify spending $100 plus shipping on a fish that might die in a month.  

 

Ryukin is one variety where good specimens can be found at a pet store.  Higher quality fish will have a noticeable hump between their head and dorsal fin.  The dorsal should be high, not flopped and have a straight first ray.  The body should be round and have an almost diamond shape.  The tail should have four distinct lobes and should not be fused at the top and the anal fins should be paired.  In addition to these things, the fish should have good color and balance.

 

Before you buy your fish, you might want to check out our Guidelines for Healthy Goldfish.  I am a little concerned about your planned stocking level and mixing the Goldfish with the loaches and the Pleco.  I just want to be sure you have a successful and positive experience with your Goldfish :)

Edited by Jared

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I got this pretty girl at a mass merchandiser on July 10. It can be hard to spot Ryukin babies from fantail babies but Jared hit it on the head. Robin was diamond shaped, has two perfectly formed anal fins, and has a totally split tail. Her hump was weak, but visible -

DSCN0738_zpsonlkgggb.jpg

She's getting stronger Ryukin features now and is the greediest and strongest fish and no issues at all yet. Ryukins also have more of a pointed snout than fantails, which is often more rounded. Here she is now -

DSCN1759_zpszyw4bh8z.jpg

There are pretty and healthy fish to be found all over, go check around and be sure to let us know what you find!

Edited by mjfromga

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Drum roll please!  I have made my decision!  :I-Thank-You: I have decided to go with 3 baby Bristol Shubunkins from the seller Shakaho recommended.  I have been in contact with him and will be buying my new little babies in a week or so.  I'm very excited about it and can't wait to watch them grow!

 

Mjfromga, I love seeing goldfish growth pictures!  You have inspired me to keep track of and my post my own baby fishes' growth pictures. I have also gotten nice ryukins like yours from a change type store.  I really like the looks of them and it is great we didn't have to spend a ton on them.  I had mine for several years.

 

Several people have posted concerns about keeping loaches with my goldies.  My loaches have lived with fancy goldfish for a year now and I have had no problems as far as aggression.  As far as stocking levels go, the option to rehome them is a possibility if things don't work out.  I have a couple of lfs who are always happy to buy my excess fish (I raised some fantail/ryukin fry several years ago).

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Will you go to pick them up?  If so, you will have a great time. 

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Even though you have made your decision, I thought I'd though my two cents in.  Most the the ruykins have had, from a LFS or Petsmart, have developed swim bladder problems by age three.  But I do have a healthy 8 year old black moor for a LFS.

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Shakaho, it would be fun to pick them out, but her prefers to ship.  He said I could tell him what I am looking for and he will try to comply if he can.  He has sent me example pictures and even a short video of the parents.  I can not believe how beautiful those fish are and for that price!

 

His smalls are 1.5 to 1.75 inches and his larges are about 3 inches.  Did you think the tiny ones would be more delicate than the 3 inch ones when it comes to shipping? 

 

I thought I might go for the small ones and have the fun of growing them out, but their colors are undeveloped so I really don't know what I'd be getting.  I would like all the colors (black, red, blue, white) to be manifested on the fish once they are adults.  I hope I'm not being too picky.  Actually I do trust Gary and know he will send me great fish.

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revchistinejday, you've done great with your black moor to have it live so long.  It must be beautiful!

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Rev,  I looked at your picture of Thomas More, and saw the next picture showed your winter pond cover.  Would you consider posting a thread on your cover, how constructed, and how it affects the water temperature?  We get lots of questions about protecting winter ponds.

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I'll second that.  Thomas More is beautiful and I'd also like to know all about your pond cover and the temp your water stays at in winter.

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