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DieselPlower

I'm dating a woman who has this...!

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I'm not that concerned about the acclimating. Consider the current situation them being in shipping water.

If there is a change, acclimate as per current acclimation protocol for receiving new fish.

Btw, my suggestion of temporarily doing nothing is predicated on the supposition that the good woman will make a decision regarding the fish in the next couple of days haha

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Mortal enemy present. :bat:

Who is this Alex guy anyway? :o

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Mortal enemy present. :bat:

Who is this Alex guy anyway? :o

Dog with goggle...

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Definitely good to see Alex back! I'll provide updates when there are some.

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Glad to hear she wants to rehome them now!

 

 

Often letting people work things out for themselves is the best way to do things....I know several people who have tiny tanks with goldfish and while I've told them what I know and answer their questions it's up to them to decide whether they think it's right or not...my friends mum thinks I'm crazy for saying I would only put 3-4 fish in her tnk so keeps encouraging her to buy more which she does....she also tells her that waterchanges stress the fish and she shouldn't do them so often. When society has pushed all this misinformation about goldfish around it's hard to get people to believe any different, because they see it as been fine.

 

Now for a confession, I was one of those people. My first tank was a 5gallon which I decided myself was too small so I got a 20gallon, put my 3 fish in it and went and bought more. At one stage I had 10 fish in there :yikes I was told a lot that it was too many and I should have 20 gallons per fish but people just threw that information at me, I tought they were crazy. I thought it's not like they are in a bowl! There is no way that fish needs all that space. But as I learnt more about fish and observed their behaviour and started testing my water, I saw that all these people were right. I rehomed fish at the time since i couldnt upgrade, increased waterchanges, got rid of all the tons of gravel I had...but ll this was a slow process. It wasn't overnight I made all these changes, it was as I learned and accepted for myself that this was needed :) 

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I brought kit!

Here is a question for Mjfromga... considering the fish show zero signs of distress, why would she just automTically believe me that her fish need a bigger tank?

Why not show her information? Surely you realize there are lots of online resources for such? If she still refuses to believe it, then I will hold my tongue on her entirely but *ahem*. Also, if she doesn't believe the things you tell her, then your relationship will have a lot more problems than a small goldfish tank. This goes especially considering your fish background, which I assumed she knew/knows. I'm running in circles now. Have a nice evening.
You dodged the question. Also, I don't expect people to simply believe anything I say. I could be wrong. Also, I never really told her I am fairly knowledge about fish keeping. She has never been to my house and yesterday was the first time I showed her a picture of my tank. I also just killed 4 of my fish due to poor care so I'm certainly not in a position to beat up on anyone.

So after having seen how her water tested, she immediately accepted there was a problem and wants to correct it. She started changing water and cleaned the filters. Do you still think I should kick her to the curb?

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Does anyone want to comment on how it is interesting that there is a large presence of ammonia and nitrate, but no nitrite? Do I understand that the bacteria that process nitrite work faster or are more efficient than the bacteria that process ammonia?

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I'm glad this is working out! I actually learnt a few things about ammonia and pH here. :)

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If the  AOBs/AOAs get zapped by too low pH and the lack of KH, they don't use ammonia, and don't produce nitrite.  

 

People sometimes lose a whole pond full of fish to a "pH crash".  Acid rain or lots of rain, low KH tap water, failure to change water, high nitrate, all contribute to a gradual drop in the pH and KH.  You can find a great explanation here (second question).  Apparently pH drops gradually to 6 - 6.5 as carbonate gets used up.  The fish adapt to this.  Then it can suddenly drop as low as 4.5, fatal to the fish and the filter bugs.  

 

If the pH crashes, one can only save the fish by removing them to a container of clean water with a pH no higher than 7.  This doesn't cause pH shock, because the fish, while in water with a much lower pH, have adapted to the pH before the crash.

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If the  AOBs/AOAs get zapped by too low pH and the lack of KH, they don't use ammonia, and don't produce nitrite.  

 

People sometimes lose a whole pond full of fish to a "pH crash".  Acid rain or lots of rain, low KH tap water, failure to change water, high nitrate, all contribute to a gradual drop in the pH and KH.  You can find a great explanation here (second question).  Apparently pH drops gradually to 6 - 6.5 as carbonate gets used up.  The fish adapt to this.  Then it can suddenly drop as low as 4.5, fatal to the fish and the filter bugs.  

 

If the pH crashes, one can only save the fish by removing them to a container of clean water with a pH no higher than 7.  This doesn't cause pH shock, because the fish, while in water with a much lower pH, have adapted to the pH before the crash.

:bingo:

 

happened tp my fish when I moved from CA to Or :o

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I guess I've come late to this thread, but just wanted to say that I really support DP's calm, diplomatic approach to the whole situation. Most people really aren't cruel, they're just uninformed and a bit thoughtless. The best thing you can do is gently draw their attention to the problem without making them feel attacked. And the truth is that people are complicated and people with otherwise outstanding qualities of kindness and intelligence can be completely unaware of how to care for animals.

 

The last time I was in China doing field work, I stayed with my good friend of many years. Her mother had just gotten two single-tailed goldfish, who were living in a shallow glass dish (yes, even worse than a 2 gal tank). I mentioned to my friend, gently, that they probably needed more space and showed her a picture of my goldfish in his 55 gallon tank. She insisted that my fish was a different kind and that hers were "the type that didn't get big." She said she had kept two fish in a glass bowl before and they had lived for five years and even had fry. Also, they changed the water in the bowl every day with tap water that had been left out over night.

 

Instead of criticizing her, I talked about how fun and lively goldfish can be and encouraged her to teach her daughter to care for them. On separate occasions, I also expressed my concern to her about how the fish weren't moving, how their gills were inflamed and they didn't look healthy. She told me she would try to find a bigger container for them and I advised her to feed them less--only one pellet each a day. I left Beijing to travel for two weeks and when I came back, the fish had died. My friend was quite upset, confessed that this had happened in the past, and said she would tell her mom to stop buying pet fish. 

 

Not the happiest ending to a story, but in China, even more so than the US, the lives of fish just aren't regarded as worth anything, especially considering that just one generation ago, many people were so poor they could barely afford to feed their families. I think, in many cases, the best we can do is spread awareness.

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Never said you should "kick her to the curb". You stuffed those words into my mouth. And yes you did kill many fish by just failing to do basic maintenance, but that doesn't mean you didn't know how and your words aren't to be believed. I hope the fish end up okay. Otherwise, I really don't care to comment anymore.

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I hope this all works out for you (DP) and this woman. How cool would it be if you ended up married and looked back on this in a couple years and had a nice laugh?

Anyhow, it's always great to see new people learning how to properly care for fish. No one ever starts out right it seems, but they make it in the end.

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Well I  hope this is over and I do hope we can all just focus on the fish as this drama is getting old :(

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Well I  hope this is over and I do hope we can all just focus on the fish as this drama is getting old :(

You knew I was gonna say something at some point! I let it go for quite a few nasty posts!

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Well I hope this is over and I do hope we can all just focus on the fish as this drama is getting old :(

:bingo:

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She has her kids the next few days so I'll be sure to nudge her to talk to them about it.

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Thats great :) I'm glad you stuck by it. If you had left her the fish would have been stuck in the same situation with no hope. I know that if someone said i was doing something wrong and then left me because i didnt immediately make major changes i would be doubting their advice!

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Hope it all works out, glad you got through to her. Sometimes seeing the reality from a chemical perspective can help people because of what we've learned throughout our lives. The assumptions she had based on the dangers of Nitrates on people was just enough to pass into the dangers of what it can do for her fish.

The same as thinking about ammonia, a common household cleaning product. It's not something you want a living being swimming through, which is how one of the guys at my previous LFS explained it to a woman which got through to her right away. :idont 

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DP, forget about the fish! 

Focus on the relationship. 

 

This little tank of goldies on her kitchen counter is hardly a determination of character. 

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Ok so one of the 10 fish jumped out and died. The other 9 are in my 125 gallon :)

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Ok so one of the 10 fish jumped out and died. The other 9 are in my 125 gallon :)

Sorry for the one fish, but good news for the other 9 :)

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Hey nice relocation! Bummer about the jumper though.

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Nice spot for them I think!

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