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SweetMamaKaty

Something's up with Franki

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)  0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)  <5
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0 
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.2
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)   8.0
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API freshwater master - drops
      • * Water temperature?  75.9 F
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?  72 gallon bowfront, > year
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? SunSun 304B, and a wet/dry
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? weekly, 50%, clean a filter every week alternating between the two so they are each cleaned every other week.
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Tues, 5/24, 50%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 - 63g fantail, 58g telescope, 49g red cap oranda, 25g telescope, & 16g telescope
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem Prime, also use Flourish tabs under the sand for my sword
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Alternating between Repashy Soilent Green, NLS 3mm sinking pellets, and frozen bloodworms, 2x day 
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? added the 16g tele May 3, just shy of 2 weeks qt (from a trusted Koko's member and we talked about recent prazi etc)
  • * Any medications added to the tank? I have since done a round of prazi just to be on the safe side.
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  No meds for this fish other than prazi. Two other fish in the tank have had MMs for dropsy, the most recent round began 4/25 and lasted 2 weeks for Franklin.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? a couple small split fins that began with some chasing behavior May 3 and haven't completely healed up, plus a scuff looking area near tail, does not seem to be raised or anything
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? seems to have started with some terrible head-standing and floatiness a couple weeks ago, and now bottom sitting most of the time.  Still very interested in food.

 

I'm attaching a couple longish videos that include the other fish and a feeding, so you can get a good idea of the general behavior in the tank.  If you see anything else worrisome please let me know.  

 

Separately, I've kicked around the idea of using an internal de-wormer as a preventative measure like we do with prazi, but have been afraid of losing fish if we actually do have an issue with that.  The reason I am slightly suspicious is that the red cap oranda has gained NO weight over a year's time despite being a very voracious eater.

 

Videos

 

 

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I agree his body shape isn't as rounded and soft as I'd like to see if and indeed, he reminds me of one of my own fish who passed from an unknown parasite. It happened gradually but I hadnt realized how out of proportion his head was to his body compared to s healthy fish. A dewormer in quarantine is a good first step and should be fairly gentle. I'd have the temperature slightly elevated, with .1% salt and light feeding. Let us know if this helps - you should see improvement within 7-10 days, depending on which dewormer you use. If suggest levamisole food or something like Seachem Paraguard.

It bears mentioning that this could also be a swimbladder issue, but combined with the bottom sitting I'd like to eliminate parasites as a possibility first, especially combined with the lack of weight gain.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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Thank you! So snails out then right? What about my swords?

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I'd not treat the whole tank. But rather treat him on his own in a quarantine. It's unlikely other fish are affected if they're not showing symptoms, usually internal parasites only bother a weakened fish.

ETA - I see you're asking about both the telescope AND redcap. So you think multiple fish are already affected, right? In that case remove the snails, the plants should be fine, and paraguard is your best bet for gentle and broad spectrum. I've had very good results with it in my on tanks and with other users. My apologies for the confusion on me trying to sort out which fish is which.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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No apology necessary, I tacked that on as an afterthought making it more complicated. Yes, I'm not sure if it's the same thing going on with both fish or not, but the red cap hasn't really seemed right for a long time, so if this would possibly help both of them and prevent any others from having issues that would be great.

I'll plan on starting asap, I think I might have paraguard, but I can't see my signature since I'm mobile. :)

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It says you have it. It should be safe for inverts but I wouldn't risk the snails just in case. Good luck!

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Ok, paraguard is in.  The bottle says to repeat daily as required, is there a certain number of days I should do, or how long to use it before deciding it worked or didn't?

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Hope it all works out Kathleen.

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I'd use it 7-10 days or at least three days after symptoms cease. If everyone is tolerating it well aim for a ten day course. You can gently raise the heat up to 78 degrees as well, but no salt. If you start seeing symptoms externally we can do salt dips as needed but I don't want to stress healthy fish out unnecessarily, YKWIM?

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Ah ok, I did salt at .1% along with the paraguard, is that a problem or just not to combine with higher temp? It's 75.0 F right now without a heater.

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Nope, shouldn't be a problem but I'd keep the temperature where it is then. We don't want to stress the fish out and the combo of warmer water and higher salinity lowers oxygen content of the water a bit - that can cause pouting fish ;). With the paraguard we are already stressing them out a bit so we don't want to push it without more severe symptoms, but keeping the temp lower will help. Just run the treatment a full 10 days as a minimum since the lower temperature would slow down the lifecycle of any parasites a little.

If symptoms are persisting or worsening let me know - we can extend the paraguard and try some salt dips. Any questions?

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Sounds good, no questions for now! Thanks :)

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Ok it's been a week, and tonight is my usual wc.  Franki has not improved, still bottom sitting a lot, and is now getting a red spot maybe from being at the bottom so much?

IMG_47021_zpsi0xbl4xm.jpg

 

The others all act fine, Franklin may be a little, I don't want to say puffy because the scales aren't raised but I wouldn't be surprised if they are by tomorrow.

 

So what to do with this wc?  I normally do a 50% to avoid pH swing, should I stick to that or do a larger amount?  Replacing or not replacing salt? Paraguard?

 

Thanks :)

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I'd advise moving him into a quarantine and treating him with metro and continuing the .1% salt and same temperature. That has some antiparasitic properties and if he is nursing an infection it could help forestall that. His behavior seems a bit off, as you say, and the paraguard should have worked on alleviating parasites by now. It could have addressed one issue and now this one remains or parasites were never his problem. Without scraping his gills and slime coat it is hard to say.

Either way, I'd definitely do two weeks of metro as a next step and we will see if that solves the issue.

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ok thank you!  I have MM food or metro powder, which should I use?

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Is the food the new-ish stuff? If so you can use that, otherwise toss it and use the powder.

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It's not super new but has been working for Franklin still, at least as of a month or so ago...

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Well, the redness has healed, but the bottom sitting continues.

I'm wondering if it's severe constipation. She just seems so round and is tilting a little. I fed some peas, but there's not as much waste in the tank as I would expect. I never actually see her poo.

I don't know if I'm imagining it or what, but it's almost like there is a bulge in her side now. Should I fast maybe, and how long? Or feed peas?

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How long have the metromeds been going?

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Okay, it looks like you have three or four more days of it, then. Absolutely consider a good fast with just vegetable matter after about two days for him once your metromeds are complete. Some no food days and then only duckweed or other soft aquatic plants wouldn't hurt a bit and might help.

Have you been seeing feces? Is it thicker or longer than normal?

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Ok thanks. No, not really seeing any. There's cruddy stuff in there that I think is, but nothing obvious.

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That makes constipation seem more likely for sure. I think it's a plan then - finish the metromeds course, fast for two days, then feed only with soft aquatic vegetable matter. I'm really not a fan of peas if you can avoid it, myself.

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