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Morgan'sMiracles

Pineconed Oranda

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My sister had an oranda arrive in the mail today from a reputable breeder via two day mail. I came for a visit and we noticed some nasty pineconing. She asked me to get your advice. I have pictures and video, though they're low quality from my phone.

Thanks for all the help in advance!

https://vimeo.com/1662858729c8dcc901c1bea636d868a6dfdb3244b.jpgb22a4be8751a3d538387d2efee988ac1.jpgb80a68a03a1b3e69898c2c894a35ce02.jpg

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I think I would first contact the breeder with photos and see what they say.

Hope the lil thing will be ok!

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Contact the breeder as soon as possible with photos and video - I'd consider sending the fish back or getting a refund for such severe pineconing so soon after arrival. At the very least you want their advice first before treatment if they won't take the fish back so no warrantees are voided.

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Pretty severe pineconing. Sorry :(

I'd be asking for a refund. A very sick fish right out of the shipping box isn't good at all. Sending healing vibes.

I wouldn't send the fish back quite yet. Its so sick that it may not make it back alive and then the seller gets a copout because it was alive when you got it.

Edited by mjfromga

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Thanks guys. I've given her all your instruction. All we are waiting on now is a reply from the seller with a 5hr time difference.

Her fish were all shipped together. She got some one week, some the next. They are all in qt together... So they've all been exposed. Should she treat these fish?

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hello, most of the time, pineconing is to the individual fish. if there is no display of illness with the other fish, i would recommend that she continue to QT them as normal and not medicate. until there are visible symptoms of illness, like the Oranda is displaying, it's best to not medicate them with more than just the usual praziquantel and salt.

 

i would however be keeping the oranda in a separate QT for now, because if the breeder responds with treatment, the fish will be treated separately. i will strongly recommend that your sister insist the breeder take this fish back, since a pineconed fish remains with a weakened immune system and can relapse into pineconing again. if the breeder wants to simply refund and not receive the fish back, your sister has the option to treat or euth. but again, in a separate QT.

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hello, most of the time, pineconing is to the individual fish. if there is no display of illness with the other fish, i would recommend that she continue to QT them as normal and not medicate. until there are visible symptoms of illness, like the Oranda is displaying, it's best to not medicate them with more than just the usual praziquantel and salt.

i would however be keeping the oranda in a separate QT for now, because if the breeder responds with treatment, the fish will be treated separately. i will strongly recommend that your sister insist the breeder take this fish back, since a pineconed fish remains with a weakened immune system and can relapse into pineconing again. if the breeder wants to simply refund and not receive the fish back, your sister has the option to treat or euth. but again, in a separate QT.

Alright. She got a refund and they suggested heat and antibiotics. What are the dropsy meds? And is epsom salt used/what doseage? We want to try and keep him alive. She really likes him.

10g qt

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Hope she feels better.

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can you answer these questions relating to the QT facility the fish is in? then we can discuss treatments.

 

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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I sent her the questions. As soon as I get the answers, I'll post again.

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Ammonia (Tap): 0

Nitrite (Tap): 0

Nitrate (Tap): 0

Ph Level (Tap): 8

Other info: I'm on a well, and water is stable and monitored, both by me and by my housemates for their food-related business

Kit used: API Master Freshwater (Drops)

Water Temp: 72

Tank size: 10g QT set up upon arrival (so 18h so far)

Filtration: Just aeration at this point; I wasn't expecting to have to set up an alternate Qt

WCs: 90% daily

-Last water 'change' was when I set up the tank yesterday; next will be within the next two hours

-Just one fish in this Qt. Medium-sized oranda.

-I use Prime.

-Haven't fed this one yet, but my normal food is Omega One Small Sinking Pellets interspersed with occasional algae wafer treats (Hikari). Generally three small meals a day, unless I see a reason to fast.

-No medications used yet.

-Other than the pineconing, all I have noticed is small white 'pimples' on his face.

-I have not had him long enough to know his 'normal' behavior, but he is active/perky and seems to be acting normal."

Sorry it's not in the form... This is how she sent it.

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Edited by Morgan'sMiracles

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Is standard dropsy treatment 1/2 tsp p/5g epsom salt + kanaplex? Is there another one I'm forgetting?

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No ma'am. Please don't test without hearing from the breeder first. If you do anything, do 1 tsp Epsom salt per five gallons of water to try and temporarily alleviate the pressure. It should help but I wouldn't treat the fish without the breeder having done something in terms of a refund or return of the fish.

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Alright. She got a refund and they suggested heat and antibiotics. What are the dropsy meds? And is epsom salt used/what doseage? We want to try and keep him alive. She really likes him.

10g qt

 

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No ma'am. Please don't test without hearing from the breeder first. If you do anything, do 1 tsp Epsom salt per five gallons of water to try and temporarily alleviate the pressure. It should help but I wouldn't treat the fish without the breeder having done something in terms of a refund or return of the fish.

She's already been refunded. Gee, been a wee bit distracted lately eh, Taryl? You misread Phil's thread, too. Lol... Happens.

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No ma'am. Please don't test without hearing from the breeder first. If you do anything, do 1 tsp Epsom salt per five gallons of water to try and temporarily alleviate the pressure. It should help but I wouldn't treat the fish without the breeder having done something in terms of a refund or return of the fish.

The breeder suggested antibiotics and gave a refund. Metro and kana are the proper antibiotics, correct?

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Sorry, I'm in another state and trying to check as I can between business. I'd do metronidazole alone, no kanaplex with the dropsy. If you have it on hand, oxytetracycline is another med we are trying in food form for dropsy treatment and so far the results have been very promising for the medicated flake from Angels Plus (Antibiotic II food).

Run a fourteen day course of metro while keeping in the Epsom salt. Please watch your water chemistry carefully and change or dose with prime as needed to keep the ammonia down (I usually do a 100% change every two days in my ten gallon hospital tank). The temperature should be gradually raised to 76-78 degrees if it isn't already, to speed up both the fish's metabolism and the bacteria at play. Feed lightly if the fish will eat. Several small meals is a good way to go.

Any questions?

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Sorry, I'm in another state and trying to check as I can between business. I'd do metronidazole alone, no kanaplex with the dropsy. If you have it on hand, oxytetracycline is another med we are trying in food form for dropsy treatment and so far the results have been very promising for the medicated flake from Angels Plus (Antibiotic II food).

Run a fourteen day course of metro while keeping in the Epsom salt. Please watch your water chemistry carefully and change or dose with prime as needed to keep the ammonia down (I usually do a 100% change every two days in my ten gallon hospital tank). The temperature should be gradually raised to 76-78 degrees if it isn't already, to speed up both the fish's metabolism and the bacteria at play. Feed lightly if the fish will eat. Several small meals is a good way to go.

Any questions?

No worries. Thanks for the help! I relayed this info to my sis. We have metro and epsom, and I'll talk to her about the medicated food.

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Unfortunately, this little guy didn't make it. We were treating him with epsom, metro, and the medicated flakes you suggested. He seemed better and then... He wasnt. Thanks for.your help.

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Sorry for your loss.

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Very sorry. The pineconing was severe. You did all you could.

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Unfortunately, this little guy didn't make it. We were treating him with epsom, metro, and the medicated flakes you suggested. He seemed better and then... He wasnt. Thanks for.your help.

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I'm sorry he passed! Dropsy isn't always a reversible symptoms, it's usually later phase organ damage when it is that severe and can come on extremely quickly. You did your best and I'm glad the breeder was at least amenable to giving your sister a refund. Stress from shipping can just do a fish in if it is already delicate.

Please make sure to sterilize your equipment - anything that came into contact with him - before storing it for the next use. On the off chance what this was is communicable a good bleach, rinse, and Prime/other dechlorinator dunk (then letting every tube and net completely dry) is a good habit to get into with any quarantine equipment. Doubly so with a fish whose ailment was one you couldn't pinpoint. This is probably old news to you but in case a newbie is reading this thread I wanted to outline the basic procedure in detail.

Hugs again, I'm sorry he didn't make it and you did great in obtaining the best treatment to give him a chance.

Edited by Arctic Mama
Fixed spelling

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I'm so sorry for your loss. :hug

Edited by LisaCGold

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