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amoonklein

Floaty Hef is Floaty

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Hello all  :hi 

 

I've finished QT on the main tank and one of my orandas, Hef, is pretty floaty so I'm starting this D&D:

 

Test Results for the Following:

 

- Ammonia Level:  (Tank) 0  (Tap) between .25 - .5 (closer to .5)

 

- Nitrite Level: (Tank) 0  (Tap) 0

 

- Nitrate Level: (Tank) 0  (Tap) 0  <-- Side note:  I'm cycled so this # is confusing to me.  I'll explain below.

 

- PH Level (Tank) between 8.0 - 8.2 (closer to 8.2)  (Tap) between 8.0 – 8.2 (closer to 8.0)

 

- Brand of Test Kit Used:  API Drops

 

- Water Temperature: Currently sitting at 71-ish (a degree to two above room temperature)

 

- Tank Size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?: 75 gallon tank, officially back up and running since late December… fully cycled since approximately mid-late January.

 

- What is the name and size of the filter(s)?:  Currently running 1 large Bacto-Surge sponge filter,  1 Hydor 450 Canister (which pushes 220 GPH), and 1 Marineland C-360 (which pushes 360 GPH), for a total of 580 GPH (+ the sponge filter).   Originally I only had the sponge filter and Hydor canister on the tank during QT as I was doing water changes every few days.  Since QT is over and everyone, I added the Marineland canister on 2/18/2016. 

 

- How often do you change the water and how much?:  80% water changes each time.  While doing QT, I was changing the water every other day (depending on ammonia readings and goldfish waste production).   I’m still changing the water every 3-4 days since I'm overstocked, but the goal is weekly water changes so I don't end up pulling my hair out.  I clean and wipe down the canisters weekly and try to wipe down the walls every other week.

 

- How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?: Last water change was Sunday, 2/21/2016.  I am going to be doing a water change this evening because my flirty crew spawned again and there are eggs all over the tank.

 

- How many fish in the tank and their size?:  4 goldfish total (2 ryukins and 2 orandas) ranging from 3-4 inches to 6(ish) inches (including tail).  I haven’t measured them so this is a rough estimate, but can provide exact figures upon request, should they be needed.  I also have a scale so I can get an official weight if that is needed as well.

 

- What kind of water additive or conditioners?:  Prime.  I also add Baking Soda (3t) to keep my PH stable as my KH is low.

 

- What do you feed your fish and how often?:  They get a variety, but the majority of their diet is Repashy Soilent Green.  I do throw in frozen foods often (brine shrimp and spirulina brine shrimp, blood worms, etc.), Hikari Goldfish Excel (soaked), and I also use those algae tabs that stick to the tank.   During the week they are fed twice daily (sometime three times) and on the weekends I try to do smaller, more frequent feedings.  It’s hard to tell the amount sometimes though… I try to hand feed but they are quick and sneaky and can inhale so much Repashy at once.

 

- Any new fish added to the tank?: Nope

 

- Any medications added to the tank?:  Nothing right now

 

- List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank (please include salt, prazi, PP, etc. and the approximate time and duration of treatment:  They have completed QT and were on 4 weeks of .3% salt.  They also completed 6 rounds of a Prazi.  I did the maximum QT treatment as they came from questionable sources.

 

- Any unusual findings on the fish such as grains of salt, bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?:  Someone (maybe more) has intermittent long stringy poo (which looks a bit white sometimes) and someone (maybe more) has intermittent long flat poo.  

 

- Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?:  Hef the red and white oranda has been floaty off and on throughout QT.  He can swim, forage at the bottom, but when he rests, he floats back up to the top of the tank and stays there. He has also occasionally been fin clampy (not severe, but noticible).  Hef also surface pipes a lot.  Everyone does it (which is annoying) but he does it the most.  Everyone still occasionally yawns.  

 

I assumed Hef was constipated and that I was overfeeding, so I fasted and fed peas.  Here is the schedule as it may be helpful information:

 

2/16/2016 - 2/18/2016:  Fasting

2/19/2016:  Peas for dinner

2/20/2016:  Peas for breakfast and dinner

2/21/2016:  Bloodworms for breakfast, peas for dinner

2/22/2016:  Algea tabs (2) stuck to tank wall for breakfast, peas for dinner

2/23/2016:  Pease for breakfast and dinner

 

Throughout this schedule, Hugo (the other oranda) and Ralph (calico ryukin) bottom sat for one day (I'm not sure which day... I didn't write it down ) :(  Other than that, everyone else seems to be acting relatively normal.

 

Hef is still floaty, so I wanted to post here in D&D to see if this is a constipation issue or if something else may be going on?

 

I took 2 videos last night and I will post those shortly as I know sometimes this can be more helpful than my descriptions... especially if I forgot to add something :)

 

My side note from earlier:  I am a bit confused as to why I don't have any nitrate readings... could this be because of the fasting that I did?  Maybe I got a cycle bump when I added the second canister?  No ammonia or nitrite spikes... perhaps I'm still cycled and just haven't gotten a reading yet?  Thoughts are appreciated.

 

Thank you in advance for any advice, etc.  Please let me know if I missed providing some information and I will gladly include any additional details.

 

I appreciate you koko gurus taking the time to read this!!!

 

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I also wanted to mention that I am actively looking for a new tank for them... the 75 is temporary and I'd like to get them in a forever home with more space asap.  Money is tight, but I've been keeping an eye on craigslist, etc. for a good deal :)

 

OK... that's it for now.  I promise!

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What a pretty tank and goldies! I think 4 fish in a 75 gallon is acceptable - not too overstocked but of course the bigger, the better. I've seen far worse floaty issues (my Rhonda has done what yours is doing a few times, usually remedied by fasting), hopefully someone can help. Good luck!

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Hef doesn't actually look that floaty to me, maybe just a bit? With the nitrate reading I'd redo the test and double check you didn't pick up bottle number one twice in a row on accident :). Check the expiration date as well.

For the floatiness fasting helps temporarily, but definitely look into more and fresher foods like algae, duckweed, or even blanched spinach. I'm not seeing anything alarming that makes me want to undergo treatment at this time but another mod or helper may have more insight. I think you're on the right track with fasting and keeping stress low :)

Is the clear poop normal casings or does it look like it has little zigzags in it?

Edited by Arctic Mama

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Four in a 75 gallon tank does not qualify as overstocking.  Please give the standard length of your fish (an estimate will do), rather than the total length.  Tails have virtually nothing to do with the bioload.

 

Please describe your cleaning frequency and procedure for all filters.  

 

Have you ever had nitrate in this tank?  If so, when did it go away?  In natural systems, two major processes remove nitrate: uptake by marginal plants,  some uptake by algae,  and denitrification by bacteria.  In an aquarium, water changes -- like 80% every 3-4 days -- also lower nitrate.

 

I agree with Taryl in that I see nothing of great concern in his buoyancy.  I'd feed Repashy, no Hikari,  duckweed (you have to grow it in a separate container), and replace most of the peas with leafy greens.  

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Thank you so much for your replies, Ladies!!

 

What a pretty tank and goldies! I think 4 fish in a 75 gallon is acceptable - not too overstocked but of course the bigger, the better. I've seen far worse floaty issues (my Rhonda has done what yours is doing a few times, usually remedied by fasting), hopefully someone can help. Good luck!

Thanks.  I'm glad that his floatiness isn't too bad :)  I'm sure I'm just being a bit paranoid, but I suppose it's better safe than sorry.  Thank you for the well wishes.  I'll make sure Hef gets the message too!

 

 

Hef doesn't actually look that floaty to me, maybe just a bit? With the nitrate reading I'd redo the test and double check you didn't pick up bottle number one twice in a row on accident :). Check the expiration date as well.

For the floatiness fasting helps temporarily, but definitely look into more and fresher foods like algae, duckweed, or even blanched spinach. I'm not seeing anything alarming that makes me want to undergo treatment at this time but another mod or helper may have more insight. I think you're on the right track with fasting and keeping stress low :)

Is the clear poop normal casings or does it look like it has little zigzags in it?

I'm glad you think he doesn't look too floaty :) I'm hoping I'm being just a bit paranoid.  Poor guy seems a bit uncomfortable.

 

Funny you should mention retesting.  I thought the same thing initially... maybe I accidentally added bottle #1 twice!  I'll retest when I get home tonight before their water change and I will also check the expiration date :)

 

I will look into making sure they have a more varied diet and will definitely include more fresh veggies (like the blanches spinach you mentioned) as well as algae and duckweed.

 

The poop when it's really thin looks kind of clearish/white, but no zig zags (which is surprising with the amount of eggs I'm sure they've eaten) ;)

 

 

Four in a 75 gallon tank does not qualify as overstocking.  Please give the standard length of your fish (an estimate will do), rather than the total length.  Tails have virtually nothing to do with the bioload.

 

Please describe your cleaning frequency and procedure for all filters.  

 

Have you ever had nitrate in this tank?  If so, when did it go away?  In natural systems, two major processes remove nitrate: uptake by marginal plants,  some uptake by algae,  and denitrification by bacteria.  In an aquarium, water changes -- like 80% every 3-4 days -- also lower nitrate.

 

I agree with Taryl in that I see nothing of great concern in his buoyancy.  I'd feed Repashy, no Hikari,  duckweed (you have to grow it in a separate container), and replace most of the peas with leafy greens.  

Thank you :)  I was feeling bad about having 4 in that tank, but hearing that I'm not overstocked like I think I am makes me feel a little better.  When I get home tonight I will take official measurements and provide SL for you :)

 

Cleaning schedule is as follows:

Every 3-4 days, change 80% of water with water changer... adding Prime prior to refilling the tank with temp matched water.  I then add 3 teaspoons of baking soda (diluted in another container prior to adding to the tank).

 

Once a week, clean each canister filter by opening and swishing media (in a separate container with tank water), wiping down the canister walls and baskets with my hands, then disposing of the water before putting everything back together (usually I water my flowers with it).  I also take out the sponge filter and swish/squeeze out any debris.

 

Every 2 weeks (mostly because I'm lazy), I wipe down the tank walls and bottom with my hands (sometimes using a scrubby thingy), and will remove any buildup on the airline tubing, etc.

 

I have yet to clean the canister tubing... this is starting to look gunky though so I was planning on cleaning those out on Sunday (but I'd be happy to push up the cleaning date to today if you think it will help).

 

For the nitrates, yes, I did have them.  When the tank was officially cycled, I was getting readings of 10ppm.  Every 3-4 days prior to a water change, I would get readings of approximately 15-20ppm, but it never got above 20ppm.  I don't have any live plants in the tank and I'm not seeing any algae.  I'll keep a close eye on the water quality and will also keep testing daily just to make sure I didn't have a cycle bump and there aren't any ammonia or nitrite spikes.

 

I will stop feeding the Hikari and will avoid dry foods going forward.  I'll keep up with the Repashy and will also try to get some more leafy goodness for them as well as the duckweed, etc. you mentioned :)

 

Thanks again!!  I'll provide an update this evening when I have some more details to share.

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Your tank and Goldfish are Beautiful!!!!

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Hi Ladies!

 

I retested the nitrates when I got home and sure enough, I had a little over 10ppm... I feel kinda silly now because that means I probably did the test incorrectly the first time.  Also, my nitrate test drops have a 2019 expiration :)

 

I did an 80% water change last night and during the water change, I pulled each goldy out and placed them into a holding tank to get their measurements:

 

Hef = 3" SL  (approximately 1.5" wide)

 

Studly = 2.5" SL (approximately 1" wide)

 

Ralph = 2" SL (approximately 1.5" wide)

 

Hugo = 4" SL (approximately 2"+ wide) Hugo was not amused with the tiny holding tank

 

Since everyone feasted on eggs throughout the day, I didn't feed anyone last night or this morning.

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Your tank and Goldfish are Beautiful!!!!

Thanks, Dawn :D

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I wonder if you did what Sharon has done with floaty fish...

 

a QT tank with Duck weed only :)

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A shallow container (6") with duckweed.  Shallow makes it possible to swim upright.  Duckweed makes it worthwhile, and cleans the digestive tract.  Exercise helps these fish a lot.

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A shallow container (6") with duckweed. Shallow makes it possible to swim upright. Duckweed makes it worthwhile, and cleans the digestive tract. Exercise helps these fish a lot.

That's been my experience too. If my floaty prone fish aren't struggling I actually find stronger current improves their condition and swimming, they tend to float and drift more in still pools. Lazy fish :)

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I wonder if you did what Sharon has done with floaty fish...

 

a QT tank with Duck weed only :)

I haven't tried that, but it's a great idea!

 

 

A shallow container (6") with duckweed.  Shallow makes it possible to swim upright.  Duckweed makes it worthwhile, and cleans the digestive tract.  Exercise helps these fish a lot.

Thank you, this is a great idea.  I will check out my local stores to see how I can get my hands on some duckweed.  For the container, I can either go buy a long rubbermaid tub and set him up in there, or I can plop him in the 10 gallon when I move that batch my batch of fry (it's going to be musical tanks at my house soon).  I will go on the hunt to check out container options and search for duckweed :)

 

 

 

A shallow container (6") with duckweed. Shallow makes it possible to swim upright. Duckweed makes it worthwhile, and cleans the digestive tract. Exercise helps these fish a lot.

That's been my experience too. If my floaty prone fish aren't struggling I actually find stronger current improves their condition and swimming, they tend to float and drift more in still pools. Lazy fish :)

 

That's good to know :)  The current definitely keeps them moving in their current set up, but when I move Hef into his temporary duckweed home, I'll try to make some current in there too.

 

Thanks again, Ladies!  Your advice is much appreciated.  I'll post with an update once I get my Heffer into his mini luxury spa (hopefully by this evening)

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Get the long Rubbermaid container.  A 10 gallon with shallow water is both too little water and too little swimming space.

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Get the long Rubbermaid container.  A 10 gallon with shallow water is both too little water and too little swimming space.

Oops!  I'm sorry, Sharon.  I meant my 20 gallon, not the 10 gallon :doh11:  There has been so much going on fish related at the house that I got confused.  I swear, if I didn't have a planner where I could keep daily notes, I wouldn't be able to keep track of anything!  Would the 20 gallon be OK for him or should I get a Rubbermaid tub instead?

 

Right now, Hef is still in the 75 gallon.  I have a 20 gallon that is currently housing 57 goldfish fry, and a 10 gallon that has ~24 fry.  I was out and our local feed store this afternoon to see if they had duckweed and to also check out stock tub options.

 

They didn't have any duckweed available, but gave me a handful of something they said was similar:

20160228_171250_zpsbkaqptww.jpg

 

I'm still trying to look up exactly what it is and if it would be OK for Hef to nibble on.

 

Also, one thing led to another and I ended up taking home a Behlen Country 140 stock tub.  The price was better than if I had gotten a Rubbermaid tub... plus it's prettier.

20160228_165232_zps0kpb5jnd.jpg

 

I'm hoping to use this for the fry (inside) and then eventually transition it outside and use it as a pond :D

 

I'm getting sidetracked...

 

There will be musical tanks at the house soon, so I'm happy to put Hef where you think he'd do best.

 

:)

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It looks like azolla, a water fern.  Not at all related to duckweed, the smallest flowering plant.  Azolla has been used as livestock feed, but an experiment in feeding tilapia with it resulted in zero growth.  I don't know whether this was because it lacked nutrients or because it wasn't palatable.   While many floating plants decrease nitrate, azolla fixes nitrogen to make nitrate.

 

You can buy duckweed on line from many sources.

 

I have a couple of 20 gallon tanks, but my sick fish go into something like this.  I had a fish that was turning upside down recently.  I put her in a spacious, shallow tote with about 4 inches of water, put in lots of duckweed, and she was swimming normally the next morning.  It won't work with every fish, but probably works better than anything else.

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It looks like azolla, a water fern.  Not at all related to duckweed, the smallest flowering plant.  Azolla has been used as livestock feed, but an experiment in feeding tilapia with it resulted in zero growth.  I don't know whether this was because it lacked nutrients or because it wasn't palatable.   While many floating plants decrease nitrate, azolla fixes nitrogen to make nitrate.

 

You can buy duckweed on line from many sources.

 

I have a couple of 20 gallon tanks, but my sick fish go into something like this.  I had a fish that was turning upside down recently.  I put her in a spacious, shallow tote with about 4 inches of water, put in lots of duckweed, and she was swimming normally the next morning.  It won't work with every fish, but probably works better than anything else.

Azolla!  That definitely looks like it :)  Thanks.  I'll keep it, but I won't bother putting it in with Hef since it won't be helpful for him.  I'll go online and order some duckweed as you suggest.

 

Thank you for the container suggestion.  I have a HD near me and it looks like this is in stock too so I will pick one up tomorrow on my way home from work.  Hopefully Hef will like the change of scenery and the shallow water and yummy duckweed will help him feel less floaty.

 

Thanks again! You rock!

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Beautiful zen-like tank and fish, Allie.

Best of luck with Hef.

 

I'm a big fan of using cooked/shelled/de-membraned edamame as an anti-float additive to fish food instead of peas. It's worth a try.

 

You don't have to make a whole lot of gel food with it, however, just mash some up like baby food and freeze it. Or even better, serve it up fresh.

My fish won't eat duckweed, :idont so let us know how yours take to it.

Edited by mysterygirl

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Beautiful zen-like tank and fish, Allie.

Best of luck with Hef.

 

I'm a big fan of using cooked/shelled/de-membraned edamame as an anti-float additive to fish food instead of peas. It's worth a try.

 

You don't have to make a whole lot of gel food with it, however, just mash some up like baby food and freeze it. Or even better, serve it up fresh.

My fish won't eat duckweed, :idont so let us know how yours take to it.

Thank you for the compliment and well wishes.  I'll make sure Hef gets the message :)

 

Good tip on the edamame.  I'm a fan of introducing something new that they might like... plus if they end up not being too interested, I'll eat their leftovers!   :Scoff: 

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HD tote aquired and Hef is residing in his personal penthouse as of this evening...

 

 

I'm hoping the duckweed ships soon :)  It's looking a little sparse in there.

 

Any other accommodations I can provide to make him nice and comfy?

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Such a handsome fishy!

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Hef's duckweed shipped today!  Yay!  It is scheduled to arrive no later than 3/10/2016, but I'm hoping it gets here sooner because a week feels like soooooooo long!

 

He seems to be doing well in his QT.  I've been doing daily 100% water changes for him and last night I fed him (and the main tank) blanched spinach.  That was a big hit :)  I plan on doing it again for dinner this evening too.

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Good luck!

We're rooting for Hef.  How is his floatiness in the new tank? 

Some of my pond fish would REALLY mope, bottom sit, act depressed when in an separate tank. So scary.

But when I put them back with their mates, they immediately acted normal. I guess that they were just terrified.

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Good luck!

We're rooting for Hef.  How is his floatiness in the new tank? 

Some of my pond fish would REALLY mope, bottom sit, act depressed when in an separate tank. So scary.

But when I put them back with their mates, they immediately acted normal. I guess that they were just terrified.

Thanks.

 

I like to think he's improved some, but I'm not 100% sure... he does bottom sit a little in there, but he could just be resting after swimming back and forth for a bit.   :idont I don't think he's doing it enough to be a worry.  I do see him pooping and he does have a good appetite so that is always a good thing.  He had spinach last night and a bit of Repashy this morning.

 

Maybe he's a bit mopey since he's not hanging out with his buddies?  When I get home from work, I try to hang by his tub a little so he can see me... he's always been curious and interested in watching me so I thought that might help a bit if he's lonely.  He seems like he enjoys the company. 

 

This weekend I will be home more so I'll have a better gauge as to his overall mood :)   I'm sure some duckweed will be a bit of entertainment for him too... whenever that gets here.

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