Jump to content
Kokos Goldfish Forum
KiwiSugar

Oranda Wen Trim

Recommended Posts

 

Hi, did my second try of wen trimming today, Different oranda, smaller than the other one. Had everything ready as Helen and Lisa said. Did the clove oil, it looked like it was supposed to. Set the timer, at 10mins timer goes off, blankie kicked up a big fuss when picked him up, he swam around more, put back in, took out, he wriggled like mad. Wasnt sure what to do, he had his full ten minutes plus more.

 

Even on the table he wriggled, i had him timered when to put in med water and when to take out etccc

He continued to wiggle the whole time. Mostly I was looking to see what i could do, he has a very thin layer on his eye, I thought it was attached to the wen, it wasn't, it is dark like him, half way down  his eye is clearer. it is like a eyelid, but just stays there.

 

It took him so long to wake, I was really scared. Thought I had lost him.  I held him up for so long my fingers were wrinkly. 

But he was such a fighter i couldn't give up.

 

Once I was ready again

I did the one from last time, he went to sleep faster this time, was really good, i did the other eye that i hadnt been able to last time.

On the table the wen relaxes eye is really visible, but when in the water the weight of the wen makes it hang down more. 

I really struggle to make a difference with the bottom of the eye

I did a better job with him this time, he woke easy and was swimming around strongly very early.

 

Have you found this before, do they behave differently the very first time they are put to sleep?

 

 

yes, i have found this, and in the same fish. i have sedated 3 different fish, each took their own time responding to the sedation. Leon was sedated 8 times. he was consistent with his times, approximately 7 minutes to be fully sedated. the first few times, i pulled him out at 5 minutes, it wasn't enough. so he went in again for another 2-3 minutes and that was plenty. from there, i learned that he needed the full 10 minutes to be on the lighter side of fully sedated. he woke very quickly in the recovery tank.

 

on a few occasions, i had to wake Leon and then re-sedate him to stop blood flow from incisions that weren't clotting as expected. on the second round, he was asleep faster and woke in record time afterwards.

 

Chubber Chu needed approximately 15 minutes to be fully sedated, she needed longer to wake. i never felt that i would lose her tho, she was making small recovery signs and i knew that holding her over the air disc, that she would come to, eventually. and that she did.

 

another fish i had was a small fantail. she took the longest to be sedated. almost 16 minutes before i could manage her. i took her out at 8 minutes, then 12 and then at 16 minutes. she woke in good time, but i did need to hold her also.

 

none of my fish struggled or showed any signs of discomfort using the clove oil for sedation..

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

now..to address jetman73

 

You're getting way ahead of yourself and I'm tired of derailing this thread.

To sum up my thoughts:

I have seen first hand and heard of many people that have lost fish using Clove Oil - me too. mainly from those who are misguided and inexperienced to use it.

I have never had that problem but did have delayed inducement and recovery - each fish is different. humans are considered individuals, why can this not apply to fish?

I have no clue if it causes permanent damage but it IS an OIL and smells like ham - rubbish - it smells like cloves. if people season ham with clove oil, then draw no comparison to it's intended use on things other than food.

Oil in water will coat gill filaments, especially when you shake it up and disperse it. - there is no long term effect and my finned patients are proof of that.

Every single dealer and breeder I have ever dealt with in the past would never use Clove Oil because it can be unreliable. Most of these dealers handle 100's of thousands of dollars worth of fish if not more. - good for them

I'll trust them and the few Aquatic Biologists I have had the pleasure of learning from in the past. - good for you.

 

 

 

Lol - its as I said. Anyway, nobody seems to be in a tizzy about it so I'm not going to either. Fish wakes up from procedure and recovers - no harm, no foul!

I hope to never have to resort to this anyway. :)

Oh and you can defer to the experience of others who still use clove oil and see no issue with it - if you must defer to experience. I've never used any of it and hope to never need to.

Unless they don't. I've seen it with clove oil and heard stories but never with MS-222 unless it is purposely overdosed - and there you have it :). What scares me about clove oil is the OIL factor and that it is no doubt coating the delicate gill filaments.- and even if it does, it is very short term, otherwise i would have lost all the fish i made procedures on.

For the OP MS-222 would be ideal and has a solid track record behind it. - in my experiences, clove oil has a very solid track record too.

 

 

jetman73 - MS-222 is not available to the public in Australia... therefore, we use clove oil.

 

Just because you can't obtain MS-222 doesn't mean that is not a superior product. It was an alternative I offered to the OP based on my experience.

 

The truth is some of the advice you give on here would make the real experts cringe. Maybe if you opened your mind and were willing to understand better ways of doing things you could improve not only as a fishkeeper but as a mod who helps these people. For me,I'm done with this place because I can only hold my tongue so long. Peace out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Just because you can't obtain MS-222 doesn't mean that is not a superior product. It was an alternative I offered to the OP based on my experience. - i/we never said MS-222 is no good. i merely supported the use of clove oil because it works very well in all my requirements. in fact, you have contradicted yourself so much, you look foolish. you have put down a product that works very well, based only on your opinion... when asked for credible information, you wrote back with belittling insults.

 

The truth is some of the advice you give on here would make the real experts cringe. Maybe if you opened your mind and were willing to understand better ways of doing things you could improve not only as a fishkeeper but as a mod who helps these people. - i do alright, but thank you for the insult. why exactly are you back?? - oh wait!!

 

For me,I'm done with this place because I can only hold my tongue so long. Peace out. - oh, goodbye.. don't slam the door on your way out... it scares the fish,

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't question a moderator but I'm sad that he has gone. He offered advice and options I'd have not known about otherwise and he's presented important things on other threads too. I hope he will come back. He and I weren't best friends but he has a love for fish and he wants the best for all of them - same as we all do. That's more important than anything, right? Unfortunate that it disintegrated to name calling. :(

I didn't intend to anger him, and I really just wanted to make sure that if I needed to use a sedation - that I absolutely wasn't putting my fish at risk. I'm concerned about Slate and I'm trying to learn all I can about this just in case. Very sorry for bringing up my concerns about sedation methods on this thread, very sorry for upsetting anybody, and very sorry for causing arguments.

I promise I didn't mean any harm. Just kinda upsets me that my questioning the MS 222 lead to a vicious argument and him leaving the site. Had I known - I would not have said anything at all. To me, ALL experienced fish keepers are a helping hand and a friend!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the point here was that this "MS-222" isnt available to everyone and Helen offered information on which she knew worked. Just cause some of use still use old school doesnt make it wrong either....

 

I think we can all learn from each other and not get upset and name calling... Im sorry Rob if you got upset and Helen Im sorry to you to.

 

But lets all just calm down and say the we agree to disagree... Doesnt mean your right or the other person is right, just walk away.

 

Lets get back on track :) Goldfish.

 

Thanks

koko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the comments, I may seem confident but i am very scared each time. 

It does really help coming here as I have many people to talk to who do understand.

I love your experience, it is a good lesson to know each goldfish is different just like ppl, and you cant expect the same reaction each time, what a relief

I am very slow and cautious so i worry a lot about how long i keep them sedated 

The metal cuticle thing is a brilliant idea, I have ordered one.

Just knowing i am not alone has been a great help

 

In the last 24 hours watching both my oranda, swimming in the tank, able to see the food, they seem sooo happy, made all my stress and worry worthwhile.

One especially has not been able to see much for a very long time.

I have done barely enough on him, and some is a bit ragged but that's ok for now

 

I am looking into ms-222 thanks, dont worry i would do a lot of research before i used anything different.

Chances are we cant get here in  nz either, nz is extremely fussy.

 

The bottom part of the wen is a lot closer/tighter to the eye and when they lay on the side with the wen hanging away from the whole eye it looks good, until he has recovered and i put him back in the tank.

 

Shucks it doesn't look like i have done anything. Better luck second time around

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it is scary each time, and each time, it's our confidence that helps us through each procedure. there is always a chance the fish will not wake up. either sedative is good to use, provided that they are used accordingly.

 

Shucks it doesn't look like i have done anything. Better luck second time around

 

you have done what most people wouldn't dare to do. you have done more than what you give yourself credit for. kudos to you for taking the chance and making a difference to your fish as well as being strong and bringing your aquarist skills to a completely new level of fishkeeping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am only into Ryukins which of course would never need wen trimming - but she's right, you are certainly brave. It takes a lot of courage to attempt this. I'd be very nervous too! I'm glad your babies can see better and seem to be recovering okay. Good job to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good for you for helping your fish to see better. Goldfish can adjust to having visual impairment, and it is great to improve this if possible.

What Ive notice since I've done the surgery is that my goldfish is much more active and my confidence has improved in taking care of my fish. And I feel that my fish are much more resilient than I thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Photo of the week.


Pic of the week poll #26


×
  • Create New...