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Joshua's Goldies

Bubbles tail

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Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrate level(Tank)never above 10

* Ammonia Level(Tap).25

* Nitrite Level(Tap)0

* Nitrate level(Tap)0

* Ph Level, Tank 7.8 - 8

* Ph Level, Tap 8

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? ---api Liquid master kit

* Water temperature? 73f

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?--- 29g 3 months

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? ---- top fin 30 HOB and xy-180 sponge filter

* How often do you change the water and how much?--- 4-5 days 80-90% of water

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? --- 2/17 80-90%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? --- (6) 4 - 1.5-2" tele butterfly, 2 - 2.5 - 3" tele butterfly

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? ---Prime

* What do you feed your fish and how often? ---- mixture of Hatori pellets and Homemade Gel Food

* Any new fish added to the tank?--- none, all fish were added same time for quarantine 2/4/16

* Any medications added to the tank? Two treatments of prazipro over the past two weeks

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. water change and prazi pro 2/11, water change and prazi pro 2/17

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? --- white raised spot on tail on bubbles tail, about the size of a human's small pimple

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?.---all fish including bubbles is very active very healthy acting and eating like pigs.

Bubbles and Lips spawned just shortly after their arrival and were very ruff, I'm not sure if this spot is an area that maybe got damaged during spawning and healing. It raised as you will see in the videos and hard to the touch. I have looked up in numerous sources of goldfish diseases and can not find any info that looks like this.

Any info would be greatly appreciated

https://vimeo.com/156091861

https://vimeo.com/156091878

Using video cause this little wiggle butt wouldn't stay still for a picture

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the video is too small in frame for me to see. but, i would be considering cutting that section out from the tail and letting it regrow (which it will). you can try to use epsom to see if it's actually fluid filled, however, based on your description of it, 'hard to the touch' it doesn't sound like it is.

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I'll try to get a pic of it before I go cutting.... that scares me to death lol

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Slate had a spot like kinda that one. I had taken the grate off the filter (DUMB!!) and her tail got sucked inside and kinda looked like that while healing. Not saying that's what happened to your fish and not offering medical advice - but Slate's tail is now perfectly normal in that spot. Hope this easily resolves itself as my Slate's did! Good luck!

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I'll try to get a pic of it before I go cutting.... that scares me to death lol

 

if needed, a procedure like this is not scary at all. in most cases, it doesn't even require sedation. however, it does require two people, 1 to keep the fish steady (fish can be under water and even in the main tank), 2, the other to cut the section out.

 

the more you think of the possibility of doing something like this, the more at ease you will become :)

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I'll try to get a pic of it before I go cutting.... that scares me to death lol

if needed, a procedure like this is not scary at all. in most cases, it doesn't even require sedation. however, it does require two people, 1 to keep the fish steady (fish can be under water and even in the main tank), 2, the other to cut the section out.

the more you think of the possibility of doing something like this, the more at ease you will become :)

Thanks Helen, I was afraid to hand spawn but when it came down to I did it! so I'm sure with one of my less squeamish friends I could get it done.

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c0317d8209d711b51ee4b914c1b51287.jpg7db5e4557c98581aa381c05a9dd9c045.jpg

316312649ace7577094680d823e91345.jpg

Looks like it is a little bit smaller, and I was able to get better pics

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Okay Slate's bump actually didn't look like that, now that the pics are closer in. Slate's was smaller and looked like a bend in the tail, nothing visibly raised and same color as her tail. As you say its smaller, hopefully it'll heal on its own. :)

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So it has t grown bigger around but is growing vertical like a tiny spine growing out feel like cartilage and he is in the best of health still other wise.

I would be willing to cut it cause it dose t seem like it's any type of fungus or fluid filled growth... I will post diagrams later of possible cutting methods and u will have to tell me which is best... @Helen

Edited by Joshua's Goldies

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the video is too small in frame for me to see. but, i would be considering cutting that section out from the tail and letting it regrow (which it will). you can try to use epsom to see if it's actually fluid filled, however, based on your description of it, 'hard to the touch' it doesn't sound like it is.

02d1f956c2b7a429285f5f3b02128a19.jpg

Not sure if I should cut leaving the leading bone Intact on his front lobe like in option A

Or

Cut straight across in option B

Your thoughts please Helen

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I'm not Helen but I believe option A stands a better chance of healing with the tail resigning normal function than B. Ray issues can lead to tails folding funny or impact swimming pattern in severe cases. Cut the area leaving as much of the fin's structure intact as possible.

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And would I need to follow with treatments of Metafix or apply bactine to the part cut ?

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You should be fine with clean water and salt but melafix wouldn't hurt anything if applied with a cotton swab :). Your choice.

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i would cut it out like this:

 

joshuas%20goldie_zps0uaiwfax.jpg

 

for something like this i would keep the fish under the water (someone else to be holding it steady), you need this other person to practice holding a wriggling fish and at the same time, to be sure that the gills are free. it can get a little tricky, but if they become used to how the fish will resist, then they will be calm come time of the procedure.

 

your job is quite simple, you need very sharp scissors. the tail looks fragile, but it's rather tough. if you go up the clearest bits, that's the easiest cut but keep in mind that when you make the V, you will be cutting across finer rays and that will feel like you're cutting through cartilage. this is why the scissors need to be very sharp and not too big in your hand. it is 100% that everything will grow back if you avoid cutting the stronger ray bone at the edge of the tail, which is why it's best to cut a V, avoiding that particular outer ray.

 

prepare a recovery tank with .1% salt, once you have cut that section out, place the fish in the recovery tank. if there are no signs of oozing blood, then after a few hours in the .1% salt, you can add your fish back to the main tank. 

 

here's what to do if there is oozing blood. have some superglue handy. put a small blob of superglue on a flat surface (on anything clean, flat that you can throw out, ie, a piece of clean plastic), raise the tail end out of the water, quickly dab it dry with tissue, then with a toothpick, pick up some superglue and dab it onto the spot where the blood is oozing. wait about 5 seconds for the glue to dry and then let the fish go. 

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Perfect thanks Helen and Arctic for all the info. Bubbles is very comfortable being held he swims right into my hand he is one of my friendliest fish eats from my hand hops into my hand for weigh-ins... Which is why I'm willing to do anything to help him remain healthy even if I means chopping part of his tail off. And he is the start of my current butterfly line... He has quickly became of my my favs, thanks again for your help. And will show u post tail surgery pics.

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good luck :)

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after you cut the section out. please see what you can do about getting a close up photo (as clear as possible) of that growth, then pierce it to see if it is a fluid sac or a growth. if this is the beginning of external tumors, then this will not be the last time you will go through this. 

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after you cut the section out. please see what you can do about getting a close up photo (as clear as possible) of that growth, then pierce it to see if it is a fluid sac or a growth. if this is the beginning of external tumors, then this will not be the last time you will go through this.

Good thinking - one never regrets thorough documentation. The worst case scenario is that you never have need of your records and pictures, but it can make it much easier in treating a recurring condition of even identifying the same phenomenon in another fish to help another user.

I like a good closeup video to document the dissection stuff, myself. Then I'm not fiddling with my camera and hoping I don't miss pertinent details ;)

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after you cut the section out. please see what you can do about getting a close up photo (as clear as possible) of that growth, then pierce it to see if it is a fluid sac or a growth. if this is the beginning of external tumors, then this will not be the last time you will go through this.

If it is a tumor and not fluid filled, do u kown if it is genetic or environmental ? Or combo of both, I'm just wondering since I'm using him in my breeding program.

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if it's any bit tumor,  would advise against breeding this fish. it would be genetic.

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Although to late he has already spawned.... Which means I'm going to have to keep very close eye on his fry as they get older... It's so weird that it popped up shortly after they spawned. His tail was perfect when I got them. This was one of the other things I found not sure if it is it but sounds very similar. 74e0dc091c9cc846bc59d3fc7ee1ff20.jpg

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yes, it can be that. but since i cannot clearly see the actual mass, i cannot be sure. however, i did not want to jump to conclusions, since there is no cure for these sorts of virus' in fish. the outbursts can be treated and the visible signs may disappear, but they will come back. some virus' affect tank mates and they all go through the terrible looking symptom cycle.. which could make a tank look disgusting to look at for a short time.

 

however, whether it be carp pox (which IS a virus) or normal tumor, they are recurring. if it's a fluid sac, i am pretty sure that it won't come back. so, it will be good to find out what it actually looks like and how it behaves when it's pierced. 

 

once you take that tail section out, take a good, close and clear photo of it whole. then pierce it to see if fluid drains from it. if fluids do not drain and the lump does not deflate, then try to slice it into two and take a nice clear photo of the insides of the growth. it's out best chance to try and figure out what this is.

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So guys sorry I could get pictures of the growth... But I did dissect it and it was puss filled... It has been completely removed. The lead ray was not cut and he took it like a champ. No bleeding...

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