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What Happened? Warning: Very long description.

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I wanted to try to figure out why 3 of my beautiful fish died.  I don't want to repeat the events which led to death.  I just found this site, so I can't fill out the form since I'm describing events over the last 2 months.  I do keep a log, however, and I'll give as much info. as possible.  I apologize for the length of this. 

 

On July 23, 2 Ranchus arrived from Raingarden. They were both in the same bag.  I put them in a cycled tank that hadn't had any other fish, but I did use filter media which had been cycled.  A calico, Flora, was bottom sitting, tail down, and she was having trouble with balance and bouyancy.  This cleared up in a few days.  I checked water quality for the next 4 days.  Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite all 0ppm.I was feeding them once a day Progold pellets, kale (microwaved), and blood worms.  On the third day here, I did a 50% water change in a 75 gallon tank.  Then 2 days later another 50% water change, Then 2 days later another 50% water change.  Two days later another 50% water change. At this point, I began my usual routine of 80% water change every 5 days. The filtration on all my tanks is a Fluval 406 and an over the top Fluval filter. 

 

On August 13, 2 new orandas arrived from Raingarden.  I had another new 75 gallon with filter media which was cycled.  I followed the routine above, except about a week after the orandas arrived, I forgot the chlorine treatment.  They were exposed for about 5 minutes before I remembered it.  One of the orandas seemed to be flashing quite a bit, so I did a Prazi treatment the day after the chlorine incident.  During all this time, my water chemistry read 0ppm for ammonia and nitrates.  On August 26, all the prazi treatments (3) were done. 

 

In early August, I Youtubed about Repashy Soilent Green and started feeding this to all my fancies:  Ryunkin, 3 orandas, 2 ranchus.  I bought another Ranchu and a butterfly telescope from Dandy Orandas which arrived on 8-19. These fish were in separate bags.   At this point, I had dismantled the 46 gallon, and had two 75 gallons.  The Ranchus from Raingarden were in one 75 gallon, the orandas with the ryunkin were in the other 75.  I put the new purple Ranchu in with the two Raingarden Ranchus, and the telescope went in with the orandas.  One of the orandasimmediately began nipping at the telescopes eyes and body.  This went on for a few hours.  the new telescope hid in a corner and wouldn't come out.  So I decided to put the new telescope in with the Ranchus, and the new purple Ranchu.  Then the new purple Ranch begins picking on the telescope, so I moved him to the oranda tank. 

 

On September 1, I decided to set up the 46 gallon again for the telescope, because he couldn't get any food.  Both Ranchus would get all the food long before the telescope could see it to eat it.  This was a great decision.  The telescope relaxed and became more active.  On September 12, I bought a new butterfly telescope to put in with the other. So now I have 2 telescopes in the 46 gallon. 

 

Chapter 2 DEATH

 

The first to go was a sweet female oranda.

 

Symptoms:

 

This oranda was fine and then one morning she was actually laying her head down on a piece of drift wood.  She seemed very weak.  I could not see any physical symptoms.  She would not eat.  I took her out and put her in a hospital tank, and treated her with API General Cure.  She continued to weaken and died by the next afternoon.At this point, I stopped feeding pellet food to all the fish after reading Ken's statement on gel food and digestive problems.  This immediately perked up several fish, namely the purple Ranchu who was becoming very lethrgic and bottom sitting.

 

On September 21, the next Oranda showed the same symptoms.  Weak, formed body into a C, and died very quickly, by the end of the day. 

The Ryunkin and the small Petsmart oranda were in this tank as well, and showed no syptoms of disease.  They are active, brightly colored, and voracious.

 

Now over to the Ranchu tank.  On September 28, one of the Raingarden Ranchus, the one who had balance and bouyancy problems initially, began showing the same symtoms:  bottom-sitting, letargy, and quick death.  I never performed a necropsy(?) as I'm not comfortable doing so at this time.

 

So that's the story.  As I was writing this, I realized how much stress I put on all these fish.  Right now I have the two remaining Ranchus with the Ryunkin and small oranda together in a 75 gallon with a 406 Fluval and a Fluval C4 OTB.  They get a water change every 5 days about 80%,  I put in a heater to 72 degrees to avoid temperature fluctuations.  The 2 butterfly telescopes are in the other 75 gallon.  The newest one is very lethargic, but is still eating.  I am treating with API General Cure.  The telescope who was picked on when it first came is doing very well.  He gets more comfortable and active each day.  Same set up on this tank filteration-wise as the other 75 gallon.  My water chemistry has never read above 0ppm for ammonia and nitrate.  The pH of our tap water is high, about 8.2.

 

I would gladly take any advise you have.  I realize I probably made a lot of mistakes, and I am heart-sick that 3 such beautiful fish died in my care.  I would like to keep the fish I have for a long time.  If you've gotton this far, I thank you for your indulgence and patience.

 

 

 

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Is your tap water very chlorinated or metallic tasting? If it is, you may way to treat the water you're using to make your gel food, just in case. It should off gas while cooking but not all compounds that affect fish do.

Assuming all your water parameters were indeed fine during all of this, if I had to guess I'd say bacterial infection or sepsis from some unknown pathogen sounds like the most likely issue. They can move slow, but they can move very quickly, too. And stress creates the vector by which bacteria that usually live at low levels in our fish and systems can multiply and take over their weakened host. It's just a guess, of course. It's tough to say without pictures and more detailed analyses of your fish and water.

I'm sorry you lost your pets!

Edited by Arctic Mama

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Did you QT your fish from DO before adding them to the tanks with the RG fish?

 

My pH is about 8.2 also and as long as it's stable that is perfectly fine . . . .  Do you know your KH?

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Because I'm new, I don't know some of the abbrieviations.  I know QT and I'm guessing RG is regular.  I don't know DO or KH.  I got pretty sloppy with my QT as you can tell.  I QT Lily, my Petsmart oranda because I've gotton some nasty ich in the past from them.  That went so well.  After three weeks, I put her in my RG tank with my only fish at the time, Puddles, a Ryunkin.  When I read how well QT and examined Dandy Orandas fish are, I got casual.  I QTed the Rain Garden fish.

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BTW, Fantailfan1, I love the pic of your tank.  It's so pretty.

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QT is quarantine
RG is Rain Garden

DO is Dandy Oranda

KH is Carbonate hardness

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Arctic Mama, thanks for your input.  I felt like it had to do with some internal bacterium.  Of course, having a feeling is not very scientific, but they were so weak, I thought it must be something internal.  What does one do for internal bacterium or sepsis?  I think my new butterfly telescope coud be afflicted with the same thing.  Also, thanks for the sympathy.  I've noticed a lot of people on this forum understand losing a fish.

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Sorry for your loss.

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I agree with Arctic Mama that it was probably an internal bacterial infection.  If you could please fill out the form for your current fish/tank(s)/symptoms, and we'll be glad to help.  :D

 

And thanks for the compliment on my tank.  That is a really old pic.  My signature got all screwed up so when it was fixed the old pic showed up . . .  someday I'll get around to putting a current one in there.  :rofl

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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Actually QT is the abbreviation for quarantine tank  (among many other things) but people here use it for both quarantine tank and quarantine.  This drives me crazy, but that's a short drive.  Quar is the standard abbreviation for quarantine,  but when used in an acronym, quarantine is Q.  

 

I think your problem originated right here:

 

I put the new purple Ranchu in with the two Raingarden Ranchus, and the telescope went in with the orandas.  One of the orandas immediately began nipping at the telescopes eyes and body.  This went on for a few hours.  the new telescope hid in a corner and wouldn't come out.  So I decided to put the new telescope in with the Ranchus, and the new purple Ranchu.  Then the new purple Ranch begins picking on the telescope, so I moved him to the oranda tank.

 

Healthy fish, like healthy people all carry potentially pathogenic bacteria as well as parasites.  They have enough immunity to their "pet bugs" that the parasites/pathogens are virtually harmless unless the fish becomes ill or stressed by something else.  Fish that have lived together in the same tank or pond share the same "pet bugs" and all have immunity to them.  However, your healthy fish do not have the same "pet bugs" as my healthy fish.  If we mix our fish together,  the "pet bugs" of one group can become the pathogens of the other group.

 

This is why we always prazi new fish during quarantine.  We can pretty much assume that the fish have flukes.  The prazi treatment will reduce the number of flukes low enough that they are not a danger to other fish.

 

 

 

 

"

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Oh of course we understand losing fish! Many of us ended up here precisely because we were making all manner of awful mistakes and losing goldfish left and right ;). Even many of us old timers who have been fish keeping for years have losses - sometimes it is I preventable. Fortunately with proper basic care and a few preventative protocols relating to filtration, quarantine procedures, and stocking guidelines, most tank drama can be prevented.

Do fill out the form Fantailfan linked, in as much detail as you can. Also let us know what medication you have on hand or what resources you have easily available, as we may need to order or pick up additional treatments as needed. We like to be conservative on what we recommend, as each additional medication interacts with everything else in the tank and increases the stress of the fish, but it's good to know what your local resources are so we aren't recommending a treatment that is, say, illegal in your area ;)

If you haven't already, please read this care article and the additional linked resources - they will help you keep our advice straight and are what Kokos has compiled as the best basic goldfish care advice, with as little anecdote and woo as possible:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/page/index.html/_/goldfish-keeping-tips/kokos-goldfish-forum-guidelines-for-healthy-gol-r520

Edited by Arctic Mama

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