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LouiseAnn

Have I lost it?

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Hi everyone,

I am part of a few goldfish groups in fb. There is a person that has started promoting his method of husbandry and is creating a book alot of members are exited about. I'm a little worried and would like other experts opinion please. Im going to call this person Gary to protect them.

1. Gary has started promoting there method of tank set up by saying "how to never have to do a waterchange"

He uses aquaponics in sumps, apple snails and loads of plants in the tank itself. Yes I would agree this is fantastic filtration but is it enough for no waterchange?

2. A special filtration system that does not require waterchanges without plants.

It looks like a well made undergravel filter with 'special sand' covered in microbes.

So naturally I asked what was special about the sand and how is this method different to other methods of biological filtration or a well made ug filter.

All I got back was that it works and the above reiterated.

Anyone heard of this method?

3. Claiming to cure Ich, ulcers anchor worms by rubbing your saliva on the area. Apparently out saliva is curing fish everywhere because 2 members have tried it on there fish with ich and the ich has disappeared within 2 days.

This is the one that really bothers me. I have punched teeth before as have a few of my friends (ask me later lol) and it always results in infection.

So I asked how does this method kill the paracite, no answer. So I asked how again and went through how our saliva has good and bad bacteria in it and how this is benificial to fish.

He blocked me.

I'm concerned people are quickly following his methods and are going to stop doing waterchanges and start spitting on there fish!

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With the water change issue, unless he is running a drip system he will run into issues with redox in his tanks, long term.

Human saliva on a wound for man or animal is extremely dangerous and could promote secondary infections of the animal, at the very least. That isn't an alternative treatment, it's scientifically unfounded and potentially harmful advice.

As for the filtration method, it might work, it might not. Extensive long term testing by him with published results would give me more confidence. But given the quality of the rest of his advice, I'd say a successful filtration system of his own design in the manner described would be like the blind squirrel and the nut.

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Really, I'd focus in on questioning the water change issue and wound care, first. These are easily researched and well studied fields, both, and there is plenty of data to contradict him.

One of my favorite sources for aquarium info, Carl Strohmeyer, has a great page on redox you should read and present to others as needed:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html

One thing I have always appreciated about Carl is that, when he gives an observation from his experience, he freely publishes supporting data. No secrets, magic, and not much bro science. What Gary is engaging in is junk science, broscience, and general ridiculousness. I don't know how else to say it. I'd be really concerned if such ideas gained traction, too, because it could be to the detriment of many people's fish.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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???????????? im really worried. I just had someone have a go at me for correcting them on salt as a remedy. She was quoting Gary saying that its bad because it strips slime cote. I explained thats true but sometimes you need that to help other meds like prazi work effectively and its many other pros. I also made sure she understood I was not having a go, just want people to know both pros and cons of salt and to be able to make an informed decision.

There throwing around the word expert when talking about him.

Oh I'm afraid for fish everywhere.

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That's where I just provide information and let people decide for themselves. I have a little cadre of articles and threads I reference quite regularly that is super useful. Keeping something like that on hand fo Gary disciples might not be a bad idea.

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I know who you are talking about, I'm a part of that group as well and I must say the saliva thing really weirded me out. Curing ich by saliva?! No way I would never trust that. I had to keep myself quiet though. The no water change thing really worries me too, i could never keep fish with never performing waterchanges and no plants etc. 

So no you haven't lost it, I had to bite my tongue very hard

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Thank you. I will use that link. I try to remain neutral when asking Gary questions... so far i have had a few people back me up so that helps as well.

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I know who you are talking about, I'm a part of that group as well and I must say the saliva thing really weirded me out. Curing ich by saliva?! No way I would never trust that. I had to keep myself quiet though. The no water change thing really worries me too, i could never keep fish with never performing waterchanges and no plants etc.

So no you haven't lost it, I had to bite my tongue very hard

Thank you. Oh my I was afraid id lost it and overstepped the mark. I'm still very curious about Garys success rate. I wish he would unblock me and let me ask questions.

I really just want him to be open and let people make an educated decision on if they want to use his methods.

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This is why I do not join FB groups.

 

:no:

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One thing the internet, and fb groups in particular, have proven is that you can find a group of people who are willing to support pretty much any concept you can think of. I have been banned from or have unliked or unjoined every Facebook page related to fish that I have joined. They are utter nonsense. To make things worse, the person who started the page has all the power, and they also usually have huge egos and no idea what they are saying. The best way to deal with them is to unlike their page, so they will have less likes, and so that no one else will see you posting in that group, and possibly join the page as well.

Edited by DieselPlower

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One thing the internet, and fb groups in particular, have proven is that you can find a group of people who are willing to support pretty much any concept you can think of. I have been banned from or have unliked or unjoined every Facebook page related to fish that I have joined. They are utter nonsense. To make things worse, the person who started the page has all the power, and they also usually have huge egos and no idea what they are saying. The best way to deal with them is to unlike their page, so they will have less likes, and so that no one else will see you posting in that group, and possibly join the page as well.

 

 

Im with you there DP.... FB pages most of the time are just Gibberish.... And you right DP most of the time it is Ego ran... All about Self promotion... The other thing is its just posts, there is no archiving or any way to look up information as FB is just a post and likes.....

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This is not directed at anyone here, but I get annoyed with people always trying to find a way out of water changes.  It's just part of taking care of the pet, just like walking your dog or changing the cat's litter.  If you don't want to do the work, don't keep a pet.

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This is not directed at anyone here, but I get annoyed with people always trying to find a way out of water changes.  It's just part of taking care of the pet, just like walking your dog or changing the cat's litter.  If you don't want to do the work, don't keep a pet.

:bingo:

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No WCs. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. :doh11:

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Of all of the pet related chores water changes are far from the worst. It can take a while, but I'd rather do a water change than scrub out the litter box. I don't understand why people want to be responsible for another living thing but then want to avoid all of the un-fun parts.

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I play video games while doing water cganges!

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I hated water changes when it was twenty buckets.

*pets Python lovingly*

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What gets me about sites and pages like that is that they become so popular and spew so much wrongful information and it gets heralded as fact not because of any proof or legitimacy to their claims... But because it's an easier and more convenient option for them, so people choose to believe it over facts.

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Well at least I know I haven't lost it ????????

I'm going to keep providing information that I have seen backed up by study. And hope that people take the right information.

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Cracked me up.......licking a goldfish from head to tail to cure whitespot.

 

 

I wonder if you get a buzz like licking some toads? Next cops will be pulling people over in their cars who are

carrying goldfish :)

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Cracked me up.......licking a goldfish from head to tail to cure whitespot.

I wonder if you get a buzz like licking some toads? Next cops will be pulling people over in their cars who are

carrying goldfish :)

Oh i can just imagen ich found on toung

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Cracked me up.......licking a goldfish from head to tail to cure whitespot.

I wonder if you get a buzz like licking some toads? Next cops will be pulling people over in their cars who are

carrying goldfish :)

Oh i can just imagen ich found on toung
I LOVE this

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That guy needs to see a Video of what I found in the tank under a Microscope.... I would never every lick a fish, nor anything in the tank..... Dude the critters in there are GROSS who in there right mind would lick anything that came from a Aquatic area...EWWW!!!

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Drunken frat boys?   :D  :tonge:

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This is not directed at anyone here, but I get annoyed with people always trying to find a way out of water changes.  It's just part of taking care of the pet, just like walking your dog or changing the cat's litter.  If you don't want to do the work, don't keep a pet.

:goodpost  

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