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Gulping air.. Should I worry about this ?..

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Even thought I don't think is a big deal it's really killing me not knowing why are they doing this.. or if they're hurting

 

Im in the understanding that GF's gulp at surface when in need of oxygen, when they have flukes or (after feeding) looking for some protein layer that floats on the surface.. 

 

However, all of my goldies spend a lot of time (1hr+) at surface after feeding and some of them spend quite some time throughout the day..

 

I have a 125G tank with 7 juveniles. They have a 4' bubble wand so I know is not oxygen.

Im in the process of finishing the cycle. I still have some ammonia & nitrites (<.50) so I do 40-50% WC twice a week.

My ph is 8.3 - 8.5

 

This guys "passed" QT.. most of them showed "flukes" (yawning, spitting out) and a couple of them (even) dropsy while in QT

 

If there's something I can do to find the source of this behavior please let me know.. 

 

20150511_223816_zpstwzogaag.jpg

 

20150511_223911_zpsjo9ccvrd.jpg

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Hello! I'm going to move your post to the disease diagnosis forum because I think you'll get the attention you need there. Please fill out D&D form for the moderators. I have a link to the form below.

Edited by LisaCGold

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  • Test Results for the Following:

    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)  .25 to .50

    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) .25 to .50
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 10 to 20
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 5
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.3 to 8.5  - KH 300 - GH between 25&75
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4
    • Other Required Info:

      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

      • * Water temperature? 77-79
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 125G  -  two months
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Eshopps WD75-CS & Fluval FX6
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? Twice a week, 40%- 50%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Sunday, 45%

  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 7 juvenile, 2-4 inch
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? mix of hikari red bag, omega1 & hikari lionhead in morning..
  • repashy soilent in afternoon..  hikari bloodworms, brine shrimp and/or peas late at night
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? none
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. New tank, fish added to this tank after QT in another tank
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Gulping at surface for prolonged time

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Is the gulping behavior occurring right after feeding?  If so, I wouldn't worry too much as this is common.

 

I would reduce their feeding to once or twice a day and add Prime daily until the tank has cycled.  Any ammonia and/or nitrite can stress the fish and more food creates more ammonia. 

 

Did you Prazi them for the flukes?

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Is the gulping behavior occurring right after feeding?  If so, I wouldn't worry too much as this is common.

 

I would reduce their feeding to once or twice a day and add Prime daily until the tank has cycled.  Any ammonia and/or nitrite can stress the fish and more food creates more ammonia. 

 

Did you Prazi them for the flukes?

 

The gulping occur after feeding but what concerns me is that it has been over an hour since I fed them and three of them are still at surface

A few weeks ago it was only one ryukin that did this throughout the day.. now it is three of them that stay for long periods of time throughout the day

 

I've been adding prime sporadically between WC but not daily, I will add the prime as suggested until cycled

 

I did use (liquid) Prazi Pro for flukes while QT..  4-5 rounds, 4 days with, 2 days w/o

________________________________________________

 

I've recorded this video "of feeding".. I honestly don't know if Im overfeeding but as soon as they finish they go to surface and as I said above three of them stay long periods of time throughout the entire day...

 

 

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They look really healthy.  What a great bunch.  What brand of food is it?

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They look really healthy.  What a great bunch.  What brand of food is it?

 

Well, thanks!..

 

So spending a lot of time at surface throughout the day is nothing to worry about?

 

Food used:

In the morning I mix in a cup some Omega1, some Hikari Lionhead & some Hikari Extreme color (red bag) pellets..

Afternoon, repashy soilent gel.. Evening, Hikari bloodworms or peas (w/ brine shrimp three times a week)

 

Im going to reduce the feeding to repashy gel in the morning & bloodworms w/ peas in the evening until cycled if you think that will help

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Your fish are beautiful! It looks like you are doing a good job with them. I hope whatever is going on with them is resolved soon. 

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What beautiful fish you have. :)  They gobbled all that up pretty fast.  Maybe try giving them the amount of the first drop of food into the tank for their feeding and see how they do.  Or you can feed them lightly in the a.m. only and not feed them in the evenings and see if they improve.

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What beautiful fish you have. :)  They gobbled all that up pretty fast.  Maybe try giving them the amount of the first drop of food into the tank for their feeding and see how they do.  Or you can feed them lightly in the a.m. only and not feed them in the evenings and see if they improve.

Thank you..  :)  And you're right!.. they eat everything I give "as if it was a race".. :feedme:Scoff:  everything is gone in less that 1.5 min (2min tops)

I don't know if it's normal or if it's a juvenile "eating" behavior (trying to get as much as they can before someone else eats it all)

 

Im going to reduce their feeding but Im trying to educate myself and I just can't explain why is "starvation" a solution for their "gulping habits"..

I mean, I fed them 6hrs ago and I just saw the tank and there's a couple of fish motionless at the top gulping air..  :undecided: 

 

I really hope there's nothing to worry about.. :blush:

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My three big fish gulp their food down like that's going to be their last meal.  I think it's a pretty normal behavior for them.

You might want to try to just fast them for a day or two than after their fasting feed them a few de-shelled peas and see how they're doing.

Gulping like that is not a normal thing.  So you do have reason to be concerned.  I hope this will be something that goes away with time.

 

Have you tried a new food that could be the culprit?

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My three big fish gulp their food down like that's going to be their last meal.  I think it's a pretty normal behavior for them.

You might want to try to just fast them for a day or two than after their fasting feed them a few de-shelled peas and see how they're doing.

Gulping like that is not a normal thing.  So you do have reason to be concerned.  I hope this will be something that goes away with time.

 

Have you tried a new food that could be the culprit?

 

Food is the same that always has been.. combo of Hikari red, Omega one & Hikari Lionhead

I don't know if mixing three different brand (and size) of pellets in the same meal, makes it wrong..  (I don't see why)

 

Actually on mid March I started with the Repashy gel but I believe repashy is one of the best foods out there..

 

Everything started with one of the ryunkins, then the ranchu, then everyone else..

I don't know if they're imitating or really finding "that" protein layer that floats on the surface

 

But like you said.. I don't think is normal to spend 6hrs+ gulping on the surface

I'm just scared that is something in the water I cannot trace or something already inside them.. (hopefully Im wrong)

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They're gorgeous - I agree they look very healthy, and I doubt water quality is the issue if they eat and swim like that, with no issues with fins, gills, etc.

I'd say the gulping air is probably them being wishful thinkers and wanting more food :D

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You could try an elimination diet.  Just feed them one kind of food for a day or so and see if the behavior changes.  Reduce to 2 meals a day for a while.  Record your results.  Start with the Repashy first, then the Hikari Lionhead, then the bloodworms, then the other pellets individually.  I say this because I feed mine Repashy Super Green, Hikari Lionhead and frozen bloodworms and they don't gulp at all.

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You could try an elimination diet.  Just feed them one kind of food for a day or so and see if the behavior changes.  Reduce to 2 meals a day for a while.  Record your results.  Start with the Repashy first, then the Hikari Lionhead, then the bloodworms, then the other pellets individually.  I say this because I feed mine Repashy Super Green, Hikari Lionhead and frozen bloodworms and they don't gulp at all.

 

Well tanks!..  :) ..  I will definitely try that..

 

Beginning tomorrow AM, I'll start recording their specific diet/behavior 

 

I thought about it a couple of weeks ago but I was concerned about the "mini" Lionhead pellet size..

I have a very small tele-butterfly and I don't know if it will be uncomfortable for his digestive system feeding a pellet "that size".. it is not as small as the Hikari red or the Omega1 but not too big either..  I'll try it anyway..

 

I just came from work and fed them a cube of bloodworms and some peas.. they're gulping.. :undecided:

 

I've thinking about what "Artic Mama"  said and it (kinda) makes sense..

I mean.. if they're imitating the ryuking that originally started all this and somehow they (do) get "some kind of nutrient" floating at surface they're gonna continue doing it since their favorite activity is eating..

 

Thanks again.. I'll keep posting if something different happens

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You could try an elimination diet.  Just feed them one kind of food for a day or so and see if the behavior changes.  Reduce to 2 meals a day for a while.  Record your results.  Start with the Repashy first, then the Hikari Lionhead, then the bloodworms, then the other pellets individually.  I say this because I feed mine Repashy Super Green, Hikari Lionhead and frozen bloodworms and they don't gulp at all.

 

Well tanks!..  :) ..  I will definitely try that..

 

Beginning tomorrow AM, I'll start recording their specific diet/behavior 

 

I thought about it a couple of weeks ago but I was concerned about the "mini" Lionhead pellet size..

I have a very small tele-butterfly and I don't know if it will be uncomfortable for his digestive system feeding a pellet "that size".. it is not as small as the Hikari red or the Omega1 but not too big either..  I'll try it anyway..

 

I just came from work and fed them a cube of bloodworms and some peas.. they're gulping.. :undecided:

 

I've thinking about what "Artic Mama"  said and it (kinda) makes sense..

I mean.. if they're imitating the ryuking that originally started all this and somehow they (do) get "some kind of nutrient" floating at surface they're gonna continue doing it since their favorite activity is eating..

 

Thanks again.. I'll keep posting if something different happens

 

This may also be a product of the ammonia and nitrite in the water.  Hopefully the daily dosing of Prime and water changes with help with that until the tank is cycled.

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I was thinking earlier this morning of how my belated Red Cap fish, Valentino, who passed away over a year ago (from other complications not related to gulping air/water) would always be gulping at the surface of the water after eating also.  It used to drive me nuts.  He didn't stay that way for hours though but none the less it bothered me because one of my other fish started picking up this bad behavior and was doing it also.  Not as bad but he was starting it.   I didn't realize this until now but my fish had stopped doing this I guess sometime after Valentino passed away.  I guess I forgot all about it.  How interesting.  

 

Maybe one of your fish started having a bad habit of doing that and the others are copying his behavior.  (a thought)

 

 

Added:  And the culprit of all this was originally Harriet, a darker Oranda that had changed color to an orange.  I had re-homed her (not because of this). But she started the gulping first, than Valentino started, and Dexter that I have now was starting that bad behavior but not too bad.  Since Valentino passed,...Dexter had stopped.  But he wasn't too bad about doing it.

Edited by 4prettyfish

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Maybe one of your fish started having a bad habit of doing that and the others are copying his behavior.  (a thought)

 

 

Yep!.. my tricolor ryukin started this.. now everyone is doing it..

I hope I don't have to lose him for "this behavior" to stop.. :no:

 

I started today with Jared's suggestion and with repashy gel they didn't spend as much time at surface..

 

Actually the ryukin (who started this behavior) spent only about 30min at first.. then minutes here & there throughout the day..

 

However.. (volume wise) the amount I gave them in gel wasn't as much as the amount I give them of pellets so I don't know if that can affect the behavior

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Your ryukin sounds like my belated red cap.  A bad behavior habit that others are doing now.  I remember another thread awhile back someone was mentioning what can be done and others were replying back.  I don't remember all the answers but someone was saying about distracting the fish by putting in a net.  The fish wouldn't like the net.  (at least I think that's what the whole subject was about)  I didn't like my fish doing the gulping habit because I was always worried about him getting floaty issues from the gulping.  

Like Jared said in post #4, first line, it's common.  You might not be able to stop your fish from doing it. I remember I would see my red cap doing it and I'd just cringe and tell him to stop it.  He never did stop though. :(

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I hope you are able to resolve this problem. It is one of the most irritating things (in MY opinion)!!!! Right now my small Ryukin tends to do it & often becomes a little bouyant. (I was the one with the fish net idea & did it out of total frustration....I haven't done it yet THIS TIME but may try again if the little Ryukin continues!!!) I have even resorted to startling a Air Gulper by flashing a lazer pointer at them when they are mindlessly gulping at the surface.....it usually at least stops them for a little while.

 

I always think they should have some sort of netting thingee that fit completely across the tank JUST under the surface.....it would be low enough to not allow access to the surface. Poof...Problem Solved.  (I have not actually MADE one of these to test....but I might sit up the ten gallon tank (if lil' Ryukin continues) & give it a shot!!) After all they do not actually HAVE to get to the surface!! 

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I hope you are able to resolve this problem. It is one of the most irritating things (in MY opinion)!!!! Right now my small Ryukin tends to do it & often becomes a little bouyant. (I was the one with the fish net idea & did it out of total frustration....I haven't done it yet THIS TIME but may try again if the little Ryukin continues!!!) I have even resorted to startling a Air Gulper by flashing a lazer pointer at them when they are mindlessly gulping at the surface.....it usually at least stops them for a little while.

 

I always think they should have some sort of netting thingee that fit completely across the tank JUST under the surface.....it would be low enough to not allow access to the surface. Poof...Problem Solved.  (I have not actually MADE one of these to test....but I might sit up the ten gallon tank (if lil' Ryukin continues) & give it a shot!!) After all they do not actually HAVE to get to the surface!! 

I knew someone had tried the net  but couldn't remember who.  I'm glad you saw posters thread.  I too think it's irritating.  

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I'd be interested to know how they are doing and whether the food has made any difference (Mind does best on NLS pellets)  :) I've had gulpers on and off over the years. At times it has driven me completely up the wall and i have tried all sorts of interventions to prevent it. My gut instinct is that something isn't right; I don't know what and there appears to be little rhyme or reason to it but in the individuals I have seen it exhibited, it just *feels* wrong, like there is something either irritating their gills or their intestinal tract...... or something! As opposed to just a 'bad habit'. 

 

I think the real danger is when it persists- the fish lose ability to easy control buoyancy, day after day, and then eventually the stress of it starts to show with a proclivity towards infection etc... This is what happened to one of mine years ago. 

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