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Which would best Gold Fish breed for me?

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I was wondering if anyone had any advice about the different breeds of Goldfish.  :hummm

 

 

I have a 100L (2USgal) tank which is cycling at the moment.  It is not planted (ornaments are all soft silicon and the resin one has no sharp edges), and my water parameters will be ph8, kh55, gh215.

 

I wanted two to three goldies, but don't know which breed is best for me, or how many is suitable for my tank.  I also wanted some snails to clean up too.

 

I have looked into Pearlscales as they don't grow as big as some of the other varieties and they are so darn cute.  Also Ryukin and fantails. Any advice? 

 

I really wanted Orandas, but I have read on other websites their wens can be prone to infections.  Are they really more difficult to look after than other breeds?

 

Thanks so much for your help! 
 

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With a 26 gallon tank, I would only do one fish.  We recommend 15-20 gallons per fish so one would be great.  You could do 2 if you can upgrade in the near future.

 

As far as which kind, it's all personal preference.  I love fantails as they have been some of the hardiest fish I've had.  My oldest current fish is a fantail and she is about 6 years old and going strong.  I think ryukins are very nice too.  I've never had a pearlscale but I do think you're right as they dont' tend to get as large as some of the other fish.

 

Some snails are good for cleanup and some aren't.  Unfortunately I dont' think you'll know if you hit the jackpot on a good cleaner until after purchase.  :rofl  Many people like plecos for clean up.  Bristlenose and rubber lip are the 2 types that are compatible with GF.  :D

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We hope to upgrade the tank in the next year or two.  Just a little pushed for space at the moment. 

 

I have some mystery snails, but they don't seem to be doing too great a job.  They cant keep up with the film on the glass at least.  Would the plecos clean the glass too, or just the substrate?  And would they add to the bioload of the tank more or less than the snails?

 

Thanks for your help!

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I think nerite snails do a better job cleaning up than mystery snails.  A pleco would add more to the bioload.  I think they clean the glass too.  I dont' know as I've never had one cuz they creep me out.  :yikes:rofl3

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I agree with Lisa: Only put one fish in that tank. It just wouldn't be big enough for two or three for much longer than a couple months, in my opinion.

 

It may be wise to note that "don't tend to get as large" is a really relative phrase. It doesn't mean they will stay close to their baby size, though. It could mean that they get to be 6 inches instead of 8 inches body length, or something like that.

 

Orandas are no more difficult to look after than any other breeds, if you ask me. All fancies have their own issues, so it'd be more of a "What can I put up with?" situation. Personally, none of the Orandas I have had have experienced wen infections. But I can't tell you why, as I don't know myself. 

 

 Plecos probably wouldn't be a good option if you plan on keeping a goldfish in the tank, just because they poop quite a bit. For that size tank. I'd stick with Nerite snails as a clean up crew, and only get one or two. I personally, though, don't feel like a cleanup crew does much more than add to the bioload. 

Edited by ChelseaM

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I think nerite snails do a better job cleaning up than mystery snails.  A pleco would add more to the bioload.  I think they clean the glass too.  I dont' know as I've never had one cuz they creep me out.  :yikes:rofl3

 

I just looked them up on google, and I don't know that I could cope with one either... I agree.... I don't know that I could bring myself to put my hand in my tank with a pleco... sorry and no offence to all the pleco peoples out there... its just.... ew.... 

 

This one did crack me up though... it looks like something I would have seen on the Muppets growing up.... http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Catfis492.jpg

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I agree with Lisa: Only put one fish in that tank. It just wouldn't be big enough for two or three for much longer than a couple months, in my opinion.

 

It may be wise to note that "don't tend to get as large" is a really relative phrase. It doesn't mean they will stay close to their baby size, though. It could mean that they get to be 6 inches instead of 8 inches body length, or something like that.

 

Orandas are no more difficult to look after than any other breeds, if you ask me. All fancies have their own issues, so it'd be more of a "What can I put up with?" situation. Personally, none of the Orandas I have had have experienced wen infections. But I can't tell you why, as I don't know myself. 

 

 Plecos probably wouldn't be a good option if you plan on keeping a goldfish in the tank, just because they poop quite a bit. For that size tank. I'd stick with Nerite snails as a clean up crew, and only get one or two. I personally, though, don't feel like a cleanup crew does much more than add to the bioload. 

 

 

Thanks for all the info Chelsea.

 

So would two be ok at a push with no cleanup crew to add to the bioload? 

 

I have two filters running on the tank, and overhead Sump 1500L/hour filter and an under gravel filter with scoria gravel substrate.  I also have a 13cm airstone as well for extra aeration. I don't know if this information will make the 'push' worth it or not.

 

Thanks again.

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I personally would not put 2 in anything less than a 40b. Just for size reasons (gal/fish aside). They normally get big and need space just to move around. That said you may be able to find older dwarfed fish that won't grow that large. One of Lisa's comes to mind and is a good example there. But finding that could be quite difficult.

Edited by Daniel E.

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I agree with Lisa: Only put one fish in that tank. It just wouldn't be big enough for two or three for much longer than a couple months, in my opinion.

 

It may be wise to note that "don't tend to get as large" is a really relative phrase. It doesn't mean they will stay close to their baby size, though. It could mean that they get to be 6 inches instead of 8 inches body length, or something like that.

 

Orandas are no more difficult to look after than any other breeds, if you ask me. All fancies have their own issues, so it'd be more of a "What can I put up with?" situation. Personally, none of the Orandas I have had have experienced wen infections. But I can't tell you why, as I don't know myself. 

 

 Plecos probably wouldn't be a good option if you plan on keeping a goldfish in the tank, just because they poop quite a bit. For that size tank. I'd stick with Nerite snails as a clean up crew, and only get one or two. I personally, though, don't feel like a cleanup crew does much more than add to the bioload. 

 

 

Thanks for all the info Chelsea.

 

So would two be ok at a push with no cleanup crew to add to the bioload? 

 

I have two filters running on the tank, and overhead Sump 1500L/hour filter and an under gravel filter with scoria gravel substrate.  I also have a 13cm airstone as well for extra aeration. I don't know if this information will make the 'push' worth it or not.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

I personally would not put 2 in anything less than a 40b. Just for size reasons (gal/fish aside). They normally get big and need space just to move around. That said you may be able to find older dwarfed fish that won't grow that large. One of Lisa's comes to mind and is a good example there. But finding that could be quite difficult.

 

 

Daniel hit the nail on the head. I agree very much with him.

 

 

E2A: Also, more filtration doesn't necessarily mean more fish can fit in the small space. You'll still be doing the water changes for the Nitrates, and you'll still be contending with the fish growing.

Edited by ChelseaM

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I personally would not put 2 in anything less than a 40b. Just for size reasons (gal/fish aside). They normally get big and need space just to move around. That said you may be able to find older dwarfed fish that won't grow that large. One of Lisa's comes to mind and is a good example there. But finding that could be quite difficult.

 

Thanks for that Daniel,  I will keep that in mind.  :-)  My biggest problem is deciding which one.... I want them all!!!!  LOL

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I'd recommend one without extreme features. But that's me lol.

770c6af5832771e0779af662a8b36964.jpg

Something along these lines.

If you want something more exotic I find teles hardy.

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I agree with Lisa: Only put one fish in that tank. It just wouldn't be big enough for two or three for much longer than a couple months, in my opinion.

 

It may be wise to note that "don't tend to get as large" is a really relative phrase. It doesn't mean they will stay close to their baby size, though. It could mean that they get to be 6 inches instead of 8 inches body length, or something like that.

 

Orandas are no more difficult to look after than any other breeds, if you ask me. All fancies have their own issues, so it'd be more of a "What can I put up with?" situation. Personally, none of the Orandas I have had have experienced wen infections. But I can't tell you why, as I don't know myself. 

 

 Plecos probably wouldn't be a good option if you plan on keeping a goldfish in the tank, just because they poop quite a bit. For that size tank. I'd stick with Nerite snails as a clean up crew, and only get one or two. I personally, though, don't feel like a cleanup crew does much more than add to the bioload. 

 

 

Thanks for all the info Chelsea.

 

So would two be ok at a push with no cleanup crew to add to the bioload? 

 

I have two filters running on the tank, and overhead Sump 1500L/hour filter and an under gravel filter with scoria gravel substrate.  I also have a 13cm airstone as well for extra aeration. I don't know if this information will make the 'push' worth it or not.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

I personally would not put 2 in anything less than a 40b. Just for size reasons (gal/fish aside). They normally get big and need space just to move around. That said you may be able to find older dwarfed fish that won't grow that large. One of Lisa's comes to mind and is a good example there. But finding that could be quite difficult.

 

 

Daniel hit the nail on the head. I agree very much with him.

 

 

E2A: Also, more filtration doesn't necessarily mean more fish can fit in the small space. You'll still be doing the water changes for the Nitrates, and you'll still be contending with the fish growing.

 

 

Ahhhhhhhh, that makes more sense now!  So it is more the amount of space available that governs the tank capacity, and to a lesser extent the filtration... Got it!

 

Thanks for that Chelsea!

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Ahhhhhhhh, that makes more sense now!  So it is more the amount of space available that governs the tank capacity, and to a lesser extent the filtration... Got it!

 

Thanks for that Chelsea!

 

Kinda. You still will want to turn over 10x the tank's volume per hour to keep up with the fish in the tank. They're both important. Even a tiny goldie will put off a large amount of poop. 

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The filter has to have enough compacity to to hold bacteria to neutralize the ammonia and NO2. The product of that is NO3 that's when the volume of water comes into play. The more water the slower the ppm will rise in the tank. Other than chemical filtration you have mechanical filtration thats where a stronger filter comes into play. That way it can pick up the debris in the tank. With HOBs 10x gph is usually enough to do both functions. With canisters due to the amount of media in the filter you won't need as much gph for chemical filtration but the reduction in goh may leave more debris in the tank.

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So with my tank size it seems one goldfish is sufficient, but do goldfish get lonely being by themselves?  Do they live better in groups? Just a thought. 

 

I really will have difficulty picking just one.... I want so many! 

 

I wonder if I could talk my husband into flooding our teeny house and swimming around with scooba gear???  Then I could have (mmm 15,500USgal /20 = 755) ....  well lots!  :lol:

 

Is it sad that I just let my OCD run away with me and did the math???

 

Back to reality... so just one in the tank I have already, will he/she get lonely? 

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I find they appreciate company and if they have been in a tank with other goldfish for a length of time then separated they will suffer a kind of depression. But if selected young and remain alone they seem to do fine by themselves.

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The filter has to have enough compacity to to hold bacteria to neutralize the ammonia and NO2. The product of that is NO3 that's when the volume of water comes into play. The more water the slower the ppm will rise in the tank. Other than chemical filtration you have mechanical filtration thats where a stronger filter comes into play. That way it can pick up the debris in the tank. With HOBs 10x gph is usually enough to do both functions. With canisters due to the amount of media in the filter you won't need as much gph for chemical filtration but the reduction in goh may leave more debris in the tank.

 

Is my filtration enough for one goldie then?

 

The overhead sump with internal 1500L/hr pump has two grades of filter wool, course then fine, then a layer of scoria gravel, then a layer of carbon.  The filter wools get rinsed in the removed tank water when I do a weekly water change, the carbon being replaced once a month.

 

The under gravel filter is only slightly smaller than the tank, and I am relying on this for the major part of the bio filtration.  It is slower, and has an inch of scoria gravel over it, so that is aprox 1" x 14" x 24".

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I am not that familiar with that kind of filter so I'll let someone who is more experienced with those answer that question.

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The filter has to have enough compacity to to hold bacteria to neutralize the ammonia and NO2. The product of that is NO3 that's when the volume of water comes into play. The more water the slower the ppm will rise in the tank. Other than chemical filtration you have mechanical filtration thats where a stronger filter comes into play. That way it can pick up the debris in the tank. With HOBs 10x gph is usually enough to do both functions. With canisters due to the amount of media in the filter you won't need as much gph for chemical filtration but the reduction in goh may leave more debris in the tank.

 

Is my filtration enough for one goldie then?

 

The overhead sump with internal 1500L/hr pump has two grades of filter wool, course then fine, then a layer of scoria gravel, then a layer of carbon.  The filter wools get rinsed in the removed tank water when I do a weekly water change, the carbon being replaced once a month.

 

The under gravel filter is only slightly smaller than the tank, and I am relying on this for the major part of the bio filtration.  It is slower, and has an inch of scoria gravel over it, so that is aprox 1" x 14" x 24".

 

Like I believe others have said in other threads, I would remove the undergravel filter completely. They just aren't suited for goldfish, who produce a lot of waste. That waste will just get trapped and clog the under gravel filter. This also will allow you to remove gravel substrate from your tank. Gravel itself is not good for goldfish because it poses a choking hazard, as well as being the worst substrate when it comes to trapping waste. If you want substrate, go with something like sand at between 1/4 and 1/2 inch thick.

 

The overhead sump sounds like a good filter, and I think it will work as the primary source of filtration for the tank. 

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Thanks again Chelsea and Daniel for all your help.  You have certainly given me a lot to think about! 

 

Just one more question... how does sand go with a gravel vaccum/syphon?  I was unsure if it would be heavy enough to remain in the tank rather than being sucked out.

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some sand is heavier than others. I personally use the PETCO brand sand and I'm liking it so far. you will inevitably you lose a little bit here and there with siphoning but not as much as you would think. Also with sand you typically do not syphion and all the way to the bottom. instead you skim the surface. due to how it compacts it does not hold a lot of debris like gravel will.

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I would say that if you can upgrade to a 40 gallon tank in six months, and you are willing to do 50% water changes weekly, you can keep two goldfish in your 100L tank.  Just choose some small fish, and feed lightly.

 

Don't confuse the fact that some varieties of goldfish get longer than others with them getting larger than others.  Goldfish are 3 dimensional, and what matters is their total volume or mass. Fancy goldfish are not as long as common goldfish, but are also taller and wider.   Pearlscales, for example, do not get very long, but because they are nearly spherical they have a mass similar to that of a common goldfish 3 times their length.

 

Goldfish of the most popular varieties grow to about the same size on the average.  Pick what you like, but do remember that the more mutations a fish carries, the more problems it is likely to have.  

 

The only thing "cleaner" animals do is convert whatever they are eating into more waste.  

 

When vacuuming sand you just hold the syphon above the surface of the sand to pick up the debris, which is lighter.  

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I would say that if you can upgrade to a 40 gallon tank in six months, and you are willing to do 50% water changes weekly, you can keep two goldfish in your 100L tank.  Just choose some small fish, and feed lightly.

 

Don't confuse the fact that some varieties of goldfish get longer than others with them getting larger than others.  Goldfish are 3 dimensional, and what matters is their total volume or mass. Fancy goldfish are not as long as common goldfish, but are also taller and wider.   Pearlscales, for example, do not get very long, but because they are nearly spherical they have a mass similar to that of a common goldfish 3 times their length.

 

Goldfish of the most popular varieties grow to about the same size on the average.  Pick what you like, but do remember that the more mutations a fish carries, the more problems it is likely to have.  

 

The only thing "cleaner" animals do is convert whatever they are eating into more waste.  

 

When vacuuming sand you just hold the syphon above the surface of the sand to pick up the debris, which is lighter.  

Thankyou for this, the mass of the goldfish vs length is not something I thought of.   Well at least that makes one decision for me.  Pearlscales are out, but orandas, fantails, telescopes and ryukins are still a possibility.  And clean up crew is not necessary. 

 

Do you know what problems are associated with orandas vs fantails vs ryukins vs telescopes?  I just want to try to eliminate too many problems. I want my little buddies to be a fun and rewarding experience, and I want them to be as healthy and happy as possible too.

 

Wow.  Thankyou so much.

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We live by the beach.  We have lots and lots of sand.  Does anyone know if this type of sand would be appropriate?  or would it hold too much salt?  

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Telescopes are prone to eye injury from hitting them on things in the tank. I see more one eyed or no eyed teles than any other goldfish. Oranda are prone to wan problems and I'd considered them one of the hardest to keep. Ryukins are more prone to swimbladder issues.

Edited by Daniel E.

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