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Jesilyn Jimenez

Prazi pro for fry

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Hello guys,

My orandas made me a grandma!! There were 14, and tonight 8 died. They are 5 days old. They were doing so good! I was told to treat with prazi. I only have prazi pro. They are in a 2.5gal tank. How do I treat them? How much should I use? I cannot get a bigger tank right now. I have to wait 2 more weeks before I can buy a 40gal breeder.

Thanks.

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I would try to get a 10g or a 20g for the fry at first rather than a 40gB. I feel like it would be too large for them when they're that young. Prazi Pro is fine for the fry, just dose the tank properly. Have you observed any fungus or parasites on the fry? Are the ones dying smaller than the others? My fry are dying off a bit, but I notice that it's the smaller ones who don't eat as much and are only about a quarter of the size of the rest of my fry - even though they are the same age.

 

What are you feeding them? How often are you changing the water? How much of the water are you changing? How are the fry acting?

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I only have one left. He looks good so far. He is swimming around and going down chasing the baby brine shrimp. There are two who I guess are dying? They are just staying at the top, and the tilt to the side.

Right now I only have a 2.5 gal, which is where they are. Now that I only have one left I won't upgrade until I know he'll make it. They are so tiny it is kind of hard to really notice anything on them. The ones that died seem just the same size as the others. It was very sudden! They were all doing good and 4 hrs later 8 of them were dead.

I am feeding them baby brine shrimp. I am cleaning the bottom of the tank,but after the 8 died I did a big water change of around 90%. They all looked dead, but a few were twitching. After the wc 4 started moving, but 3 of them stayed at the top laying on their sides. One died a few hrs ago and the other 2 do not look good. Only one is looking really good and swimming around the 2.5. I added prazi

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You'll want to run an air stone with the Prazi.

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Who told you to treat with prazi? Did the person confirm that it is in fact flukes? 

 

It's just quite interesting for me to hear that flukes can kill as soon as they're 5 days old; I'd assume that your tank is heavily infested if that's the case. It's more usual to see flukes start affecting fry at around 2 weeks old. Prazi as a preventative measure is always good too.

 

What were your water parameters (including temperature)? From what I've seen, bad water quality is more likely to kill fry first over anything else. I start my fry off in 10 gal tanks half filled. Anything smaller will result in water that fouls faster regardless of how many fry you have (due to the overfeeding).

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I treated my fry at one week as he was spitting food out. I treat my main tank every 3-4 months with Prazi so I don't think that I have a heavy infestation. These fry are tiny. Even a small fluke load could affect them . . . . Some people here treat with Prazi as soon as they hatch. :idont.

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The flukes issue is a mayor one no doubt about that. Ive had them in my ranchu fry last spring and saw alot of locked open or deformed yaws. This time with my Oranda fry i followed a very strict protocol to prevent investations of any kind by other established systems i have running, relying heavily on WC's and cycle with 'fry in' and new sponges/filters. Ive had no issues whatsoever, no locked yaws, no fungus or bacterial infections. The only issue i have is fry that overeat, just a few though.

 

Food for thought i would say.

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I treated my fry at one week as he was spitting food out. I treat my main tank every 3-4 months with Prazi so I don't think that I have a heavy infestation. These fry are tiny. Even a small fluke load could affect them . . . . Some people here treat with Prazi as soon as they hatch. :idont.

 

I too have had my fair share of flukes. In all of my fluke infested spawns, I did not see groups of fish dying off in a matter of hours - as the OP claimed has happened to hers… In her words, “It was very sudden! They were all doing good and 4 hrs later 8 of them were dead.” 
 
Although they could have been very well be harboring flukes, the fact that a group of them died within hours is very suspicious (especially coming from a small spawn). This is why I suggested water quality. 
 
According to the OP, it sounded like they were originally eating and swimming well to the day...then, as one day progressed, the fry started to suddenly expire. This is the opposite of one would see in a fluke infested spawn. In fluke infested spawns, you’ll usually notice far along that something is wrong. The fry will lack energy and appetite. They arrange in the upper part of the tank because the (gill) flukes are depriving them of oxygen. Bellies will always be empty or near empty in most fry. They’ll then start to look deformed due to the lack of nutrition. In your case, you saw that your fry weren't eating...OP did not claim this to be an issue. In sum, and in my experience, flukes will take a fry’s life over a period of days (from when first symptoms show), not hours. 
 

I've tried raising small numbers of fry in two gallon containers in the past. Water can go bad really quick in these small containers…especially if you’re dealing with small amounts of water, large amounts of food, and no water change for even a day. 

 

As for possible causes of heavy infestations in anyone's case, the possibility of better conditions for flukes to grow and reproduce in a fry tank can result in heavy infestation. In a small tank with a lot of fry, flukes can spread like wildfire. Killing will take a little while longer.

Edited by Golden

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Well, I started the remaining 3 fry on prazi and they are doing great. 2 of them were staying at the top of the tank, and now they are not. They are a week old today. I am doing 100% water changes when I take them out to eat egg yolk. My bbs are not hatching fast enough,, so I have to supplement while I wait for them to hatch. So far, so good. They are growing so good! This is a pic taken yesterday of all 3 fry efc7bf1c20291012d310b717a0ed96a6.jpg

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They look good!!  :D

When I had fry, I actually kept 2 brine shrimp hatcheries going at once to that I didn't run out.  I found that some hatched relatively quickly while others took 24-36 hours.  :idont
 

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Yeah I have 2 hatcheries going. I need better quality eggs. San francisco bay ones take too long to hatch.

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I see no signs of fluke related symptoms in the pictures...but yes they will benefit from prazi-pro regardless.

 

To address your earlier fry deaths - if you've been feeding egg yolk throughout this whole time, I have no doubt in my mind that it was the water. Egg yolk makes the water really unstable in a matter of hours if it isn't cleaned soon after.

 

Good luck with them!

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I see no signs of fluke related symptoms in the pictures...but yes they will benefit from prazi-pro regardless.

To address your earlier fry deaths - if you've been feeding egg yolk throughout this whole time, I have no doubt in my mind that it was the water. Egg yolk makes the water really unstable in a matter of hours if it isn't cleaned soon after.

Good luck with them!

Thanks, but I only started feeding egg yolk 2 days ago... And I do not doing in their tank. I take them out, in a small container, feed them the egg yolk, wait 15-20 mins and transfer them back... I do it this way to avoid the mess in the water.

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I see no signs of fluke related symptoms in the pictures...but yes they will benefit from prazi-pro regardless.

 

To address your earlier fry deaths - if you've been feeding egg yolk throughout this whole time, I have no doubt in my mind that it was the water. Egg yolk makes the water really unstable in a matter of hours if it isn't cleaned soon after.

 

Good luck with them!

 

 

What signs of fluke related symptoms would you expect to see in a pic of a fry?  :idont

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I see no signs of fluke related symptoms in the pictures...but yes they will benefit from prazi-pro regardless.

 

To address your earlier fry deaths - if you've been feeding egg yolk throughout this whole time, I have no doubt in my mind that it was the water. Egg yolk makes the water really unstable in a matter of hours if it isn't cleaned soon after.

 

Good luck with them!

 

 

What signs of fluke related symptoms would you expect to see in a pic of a fry?  :idont

 

 

I am a little stumped by your question given the confidence you have in claiming that the OP's fry deaths were caused by flukes. Can I ask how much experience you've had with flukes?

 

Please reread post #8. In addition to what's posted in post #8, you'll notice that the mouths and heads will not appear normal. A fry in an "advanced state" of being infested will have less of a smooth head that you see in the pictures the OP posted. Mouths will also take on a different shape. Experienced breeders often describe this as looking like a bulldog's head. Fry that show these symptoms are the one's that die.

 

With that explained, I'd like to repeat that GROUPS of fry that die at the same time for no apparent reason (as in the OP's case) is usually caused by the water.

 

And for what it's worth, from my experience on another fish forum I'm on...fish keepers who fail to provide water parameters when prompted are usually the ones who don't test or take note of their water (and is more than likely the assumed cause of death in each case when everything else appeared normal at the time of deaths)... :twocents

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Golden, I don't want to sound ungrateful because I always get great advice here, but you are assuming all sorts of things without getting all the facts. I do daily water changes for the fry, I vacuum the tank's bottom 2-3 times a day, I do not feed them egg yolk inside the tank (I feed that for only 2 days because I was having trouble getting the brine shrimp to hatch). Now, you say it was not flukes, but tell me how is it possible that right after I started treating with prazi, the 3 left started thriving? 2 of them were always at the top of the tank and would not come down at all, they barely swam or ate but the day after I started the prazi treatment they started swimming around and looking for food. I am just saying what happened and how well they got after I started prazi.

I was advised to start prazi asap after most of my fry died by a breeder, ECR. The pic I uploaded here is of the remaining 3 fry, not of the other ones, and this pic was 2 days after I started the treatment. Anyhow, I was originally asking about prazi pro dose for a small tank, but I got no answer so I just researched it. I do not check the parameters for the 2.5 gal tank because I do water changes daily, sometimes 2 times a day, and also, there is no filter there. So... I already answered my own original question, but thank you for your input anyway.

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I think anyone with GF has had experience with flukes.  Perhaps not a heavy infestation but some amount of flukes whether they realize it or not.  I do not have a lot of experience with fry but I do know that many of the people on here that do recommend treating with prazi early to help eliminate fry deaths from flukes.

 

You originally asked who told her to treat with prazi and had it been confirmed that the problem was flukes.  I don't think you need to confirm that you have flukes to treat for it as pretty much any tank will have flukes to some degree.  We've discussed this several times and it seems virtually impossible to eliminate flukes in a system.  Even after treatment a few remain.  Those few will then continue to increase in number which is why many of us treat a few times a year with prazi.

 

I did not claim her deaths were due to flukes.  I was simply backing up the advice that she had gotten to treat with prazi as I do think that flukes can cause a major die off.  Certainly water quality can too  . . .

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative.  I was just asking what you'd expect to see in a pic of  fry that would indicate flukes.  :idont

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I was advised to start prazi asap after most of my fry died by a breeder, ECR.

ECR is amazing and I've received amazing advice from them. If the fry are doing well then keep up with the treatment.

 

How old are the fry now? Any updated pictures? Fry grow quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more tail and body developments since the two days that you posted pictures of them.

 

Good luck with your trio.

 

I think anyone with GF has had experience with flukes. Perhaps not a heavy infestation but some amount of flukes whether they realize it or not.

 

I don't think that's true. In my case, ich, yes, but not everyone has experienced flukes in their goldfish. I know what flukes look like and what it's like for my goldfish to act "off", so I'm pretty sure I would know if my goldfish have ever had flukes instead of them "having flukes and me not realizing".

 

Not trying to sound rude, I'm just saying. :)

Edited by Kiara

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I was advised to start prazi asap after most of my fry died by a breeder, ECR.

ECR is amazing and I've received amazing advice from them. If the fry are doing well then keep up with the treatment.

How old are the fry now? Any updated pictures? Fry grow quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more tail and body developments since the two days that you posted pictures of them.

Good luck with your trio.

I think anyone with GF has had experience with flukes. Perhaps not a heavy infestation but some amount of flukes whether they realize it or not.

I don't think that's true. In my case, ich, yes, but not everyone has experienced flukes in their goldfish. I know what flukes look like and what it's like for my goldfish to act "off", so I'm pretty sure I would know if my goldfish have ever had flukes instead of them "having flukes and me not realizing".

Not trying to sound rude, I'm just saying. :)

Hi Kiara,

Babies are doing great! They are 9 days old today. All 3 are still alive and very active. Hoping they'll make it. Here are 2 pics taken last night.

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13cd392030910bc7296afb81e326d322.jpg

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Kiara, GF don't always exhibit symptoms of flukes but if you were to scope them (they are microscopic), I dare say virtually any GF keeper would find some . . .  I'm sure many fishkeepers never treat for flukes and don't have major issue with flukes but I believe they are still there.  :yikes  They show symptoms if there is a heavy infestation, some sort of stress compromises their immune system, etc.  I just prophylactically treated my tank but I'm sure some lil buggers survived.  :wa

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Jesilyn, those fry are adorable! What are you using to take those pictures? I love the detail and the macro.

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Jesilyn, those fry are adorable! What are you using to take those pictures? I love the detail and the macro.

Thank you Kiara! I use a Nikon D3200. No macro lens, I just zoom in and crop

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