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number20121

Shubunkin acting really off

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 5-10
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.3
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.3
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
      • * Water temperature? 70F
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55g, 4+years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Two Tetra Whisper EX70 at 320gph each
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? twice weekly 80%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 3 days, 80%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 4 fish between 3" and close to 6" body length
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, Crushed Coral in filter
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? 2-4 times daily (depending on my work schedule) Super Green, Omega One sinking pellets, blanched green vegetables, frozen bloodworms
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Prazi Pro started a week ago
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

    Over the past 5 1/2 years, been treated with prazi and salt a few times. Once about 2 years ago Metro Meds when there were problems with the water source and a lot of fish (goldfish and tropicals) spread out over half a dozen tanks started pineconing

  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Buoyancy is off, increased bottom sitting, lethargy

Hugo has been a little bit off buoyancy for a while. I attribute this to the fact that she is the only remaining goldfish from when I started out 5 1/2 years ago with 10 fish in a 10 gallon tank, and she hadn't been properly cared for for about 2 years.

Like 10 days or two weeks or so ago - probably coincidentally right after I accidentally "overdosed" with koi clay - she started acting a bit more goofy. She goes between being floaty at the surface and increased bottom sitting. Fasted a couple days without improvement.

This morning at about 4:30am I found her laying sideways at the bottom of the tank. She has always been a fish that spends the night at the bottom, but always upright. I thought she was on her way out, so I dropped a pinch of pellets in, which after a minute prompted her into chasing for food and acting considerably normal.

However, a couple hours ago after I came home from work I put her in QT. It is only a 10g tank which seems a bit tight for her (since she is about 11" long), but I have nothing else available right now. I'll be doing huge water changes daily, and the tank is more than properly filtered. In fact, I think I need to dig out one of my older, weaker filters because he current one is like 20x filtration....

Right now she keeps swimming back and forth across the "wall" that is only a few inches away from another 55g goldfish tank, like she is a lonely tiger in a small zoo cage, and resting at the bottom for a minute every ten minutes I'd say.

No pineconing, no other exterior problems. Tattered caudals because one of the males last week thought it is breeding season and destroyed the caudals of both the long finned females in the tank.

I did my routine prazi a couple months ago, but realized last week when I rinsed the media from the excess koi clay, that I had a couple carbon pads in the filters, so I'm not sure about how effective the prazi was. No unusual yawning though, absolutely no flashing or twitching either. Really doesn't seem like flukes at all.

As far as meds on hand go, I do have in my GF pharmacy:

Metro Meds

Medi Gold

Kanaplex powder

ParaGuard

PraziPro

Epsom Salt

Potassium Permanganate (IF a PP solution (PP crystals and water) is still good after a couple years, kept in a plastic water bottle, wrapped inside a paper bag, kept inside a dark cabinet)

Salt

I got a couple LFS (Petsmart and an independent LFS) in the area to get some of the other basic meds if those are needed.

Edited by Oerba Yun Fang

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I hope Hugo feels better.

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:hi The Prazi could have contributed to the bottom sitting although it sounds like there was already a swim bladder issue. The sideways bottom sitting may indicate that the swim bladder is being pushed to one side by an internal infection, tumor, etc. I would try the Metro Meds along with Epsom Salt at 1/4 Teaspoon per 10 gallons. If the Metro Meds make her floatier or she won't eat them, switch to Metronidazole and Kanaplex powders. The Seachem brand Metronidazole is easy to dose along with the Kanaplex.

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:hi The Prazi could have contributed to the bottom sitting although it sounds like there was already a swim bladder issue. The sideways bottom sitting may indicate that the swim bladder is being pushed to one side by an internal infection, tumor, etc. I would try the Metro Meds along with Epsom Salt at 1/4 Teaspoon per 10 gallons. If the Metro Meds make her floatier or she won't eat them, switch to Metronidazole and Kanaplex powders. The Seachem brand Metronidazole is easy to dose along with the Kanaplex.

Gotcha. I forgot to mention that I do have metro powder on hand too, although by another brand.

She still is very interested in food, and becomes more active when the filter is on. When the filter in QT is off, she rests on the bottom, upright. I really need to dig out one of the smaller filters, I hope I didn't donate ALL of them to Goodwill a while back!

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:hi The Prazi could have contributed to the bottom sitting although it sounds like there was already a swim bladder issue. The sideways bottom sitting may indicate that the swim bladder is being pushed to one side by an internal infection, tumor, etc. I would try the Metro Meds along with Epsom Salt at 1/4 Teaspoon per 10 gallons. If the Metro Meds make her floatier or she won't eat them, switch to Metronidazole and Kanaplex powders. The Seachem brand Metronidazole is easy to dose along with the Kanaplex.

Gotcha. I forgot to mention that I do have metro powder on hand too, although by another brand.

She still is very interested in food, and becomes more active when the filter is on. When the filter in QT is off, she rests on the bottom, upright. I really need to dig out one of the smaller filters, I hope I didn't donate ALL of them to Goodwill a while back!

Can you just baffle the outflow with a piece of filter padding?

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I probably could, but a 240gph on a 10g does seem like a bit much to me for a fish that's not feeling good :rofl

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I probably could, but a 240gph on a 10g does seem like a bit much to me for a fish that's not feeling good :rofl

:rofl I agree

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I probably could, but a 240gph on a 10g does seem like a bit much to me for a fish that's not feeling good :rofl

:rofl I agree

You totally edited your first post, and it doesn't even show it's edited, because I swear to God - you kept referring to her as a boy! :lol

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I probably could, but a 240gph on a 10g does seem like a bit much to me for a fish that's not feeling good :rofl

:rofl I agree

You totally edited your first post, and it doesn't even show it's edited, because I swear to God - you kept referring to her as a boy! :lol

I have no idea what you're talking about :whistle

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healing vibes for Hugo, hun.. she's one of my favourites :wub:

would you upload a video of her with the filters off, then turn the filters back on so we can see her 'still' behaviour and then her movement?

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I have a couple of those little Walmart filters that I use for 10 gallon hospital tanks.

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I fixed the over filtration after I last posted, and used one of my smaller spare filters. :)

I have noticed that she also does this weird breathing. Instead of just slightly opening her mouth, she often opens it all the way. I took a video of it, sorry for the crappy quality. I can't get nearer than this without her flipping out over the prospect of a possible feeding...

The tank is also cloudy because it had not been used in a long time. Looks like a bacterial bloom to me, but the filter runs with media from the main tank. Params a zeros.

You can see her do the mouth thing a few times during the video, and at the end when she bottom sits under the filter, it is really noticeable.

Thinking about maybe additionally doing a flukes treatment? Her gills look normal, healthy deep pink color.

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She's beautiful!!!!! Hope she feels better soon.

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I'm sorry Hugo isn't doing well. Sending good healing thoughts your way. I hope she feels better soon. She is beautiful with her long flowy tail.

Edited by 4prettyfish

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Hi Fang
Sorry Hugo isn't feeling well. She's one of my favs too! Healing thoughts <3

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Get well soon! :heart

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Thanks, everyone :)

Today she seems to be doing that weird gulping thing almost continuously, while she otherwise acts rather normal. Not much bottom sitting, just scooting back and fort the entire length ( :lol ) of her QT tank and begging for food every time she sees me move.

I thought about checking her mouth if she has anything stuck in it, but that makes no sense to me. The main tank is bare bottom, with anubias tied to large river rocks.

Additionally she does not have any problem eating the MMs, and you'd think that this would be kind of difficult if her mouth is obstructed to the point that she looks like she has a hard time breathing... or not?

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I was thinking maybe she had something stuck too. I actually saw a video yesterday of an oranda with gravel stuck and his mouth action was the same wide O. But if Hugo can eat...I doubt that is it? Maybe something caught in her gills??

Edited by Red

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just to eliminate the possibility of flukes, would you like to do a few rounds of prazi w salt? if you're using PraziPro, please double dose.. i see no other reason why she would be making mouth movements like that.

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She's a beauty.

Hope it's a speedy recovery.

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just to eliminate the possibility of flukes, would you like to do a few rounds of prazi w salt? if you're using PraziPro, please double dose.. i see no other reason why she would be making mouth movements like that.

Alright, I'll add a second dose then. Also gonna dig out the cap for the spray bar and see if the increased bubbles and surface agitation will make a difference.

Thanks!

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Salt to 0.3% if you're double dosing Prazi . . .

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Hi Fang,

We had a little mod discussion about your fish and recommend that you:

1) Continue with the Metro Meds.

2) Start Prazi treatment.

3) Hold off on salt.

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Hi Fang,

We had a little mod discussion about your fish and recommend that you:

1) Continue with the Metro Meds.

2) Start Prazi treatment.

3) Hold off on salt.

Cool, thanks!

I'll just start removing it then, I'm only at 0.1% so far anyway.

She seems to be doing pretty good, more active than she first was when she got into the QT. The MMs are apparently really helping her.

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Hi Fang,

We had a little mod discussion about your fish and recommend that you:

1) Continue with the Metro Meds.

2) Start Prazi treatment.

3) Hold off on salt.

Cool, thanks!

I'll just start removing it then, I'm only at 0.1% so far anyway.

She seems to be doing pretty good, more active than she first was when she got into the QT. The MMs are apparently really helping her.

Great! I just don't think the salt is necessary while you are feeding her the Metro Meds :)

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