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Whiskers

Oranda Facial Wens?

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Hello Koko's! I was wondering about my Oranda, Jelly Bean. She has a nice head wen already established (stunting issue? She came to me that way) but I noticed more recently now that she's putting on weight that her cheeks are starting to get bubbly.

How do you know you have a hat-oranda over a face-oranda? Does one part tend to grow quicker? I'm mostly curious - I accepted the fact she was a hat-wearer when I bought her but would love her any way she comes. She's already shed all of her black on me. :goldfish:

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"I don't want a fat face!"

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I have not heard of that distinction before. Where did you hear of that?

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I have not heard of that distinction before. Where did you hear of that?

If you mean hat wearing versus face oranda, that was me fishing for terms to describe my question. :teehee I should say "capped" like this fish and chubby faced like this fish.

Edited by Whiskers

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This is an interesting question, although I don't think I have thought of it in these terms. I love looking at the ranchus at ECR, and the distinction between ranchus with squared off faces and ones with thinner faces has struck me. In general, I've noticed that red-caps, like mine, tend to be capped rather than squared off.

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It seems to me like wens are a genetic thing in terms of shape, but the food and environment are what determines how quickly they reach their predetermined size. They come in way too many shapes,, but the only thing I noticed is that all wenned fish have those cute bubbled cheeks, no matter where the highest concentration of growth is.

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I love how you said, "hat". Very cute. I'm assuming you mean like a raised/tall/cap wen growth, like Susanne's Red Cap in her signature. I agree with Chelsea, it all depends on genetics, food, environment, not overstocking tank, huge w/c's, etc.

I love the names of your two fish. ( I said it in your intro) Very original. :)

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I think you will have to wait until the fish matures, which will take years. Ideally, Orandas have balanced cranial(top of head), suborbital(below the eyes) and opercular(over the gill plates) growth. But, every fish varies in this proportion :)

PS: Chelsea is correct about diet helping...try frozen bloodworms :Scoff:

Edited by jmetzger72

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I think you will have to wait until the fish matures, which will take years. Ideally, Orandas have balanced cranial(top of head), suborbital(below the eyes) and opercular(over the gill plates) growth. But, every fish varies in this proportion :)

PS: Chelsea is correct about diet helping...try frozen bloodworms :Scoff:

Will have to look into them. All I have right now are the freeze dried variety left over from a betta. I ended up blending it into their gel food I made because I'm so afraid they'll expand in their tummies.

I love how you said, "hat". Very cute. I'm assuming you mean like a raised/tall/cap wen growth, like Susanne's Red Cap in her signature. I agree with Chelsea, it all depends on genetics, food, environment, not overstocking tank, huge w/c's, etc.

I love the names of your two fish. ( I said it in your intro) Very original. :)

And thank you for the advice and compliment. :heart Most people I tell tend to chuckle hah. Thank the heavens I don't have room for a third nor will I any time soon because I'm not sure how many two-part candy names I could come up with.

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I would throw those freeze-dried ones out immediately. Even after soaking, they still hold air. I would assume that this is the same in your gel food, unless you turn them to powder first. They also expand quite a bit when soaked, so unless you soak them before adding them to the gel you will be getting things expanding in the intestines of your fish. It's just not worth the risks.

Frozen bloodworms are a gentler, healthier way to add lots of health to a goldfish's diet. If you're interested, Steve Hopkins from RainGarden has an article on the benefits of bloodworms, and I also find that it is a great argument for not feeding them anything other than moist and red as they were in life.

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I would throw those freeze-dried ones out immediately. Even after soaking, they still hold air. I would assume that this is the same in your gel food, unless you turn them to powder first. They also expand quite a bit when soaked, so unless you soak them before adding them to the gel you will be getting things expanding in the intestines of your fish. It's just not worth the risks.

Frozen bloodworms are a gentler, healthier way to add lots of health to a goldfish's diet. If you're interested, Steve Hopkins from RainGarden has an article on the benefits of bloodworms, and I also find that it is a great argument for not feeding them anything other than moist and red as they were in life.

Thank you for the link. I did pre-soak them before they went into my gel food where they were then blended to bits with everything else. I'll certainly stop using them as soon as possible. I only have a little bit of that batch yet and they've seemed to have zero issues with it (probably because of the grand pea content). They have plenty of other food anyways. :P

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I would throw those freeze-dried ones out immediately. Even after soaking, they still hold air. I would assume that this is the same in your gel food, unless you turn them to powder first. They also expand quite a bit when soaked, so unless you soak them before adding them to the gel you will be getting things expanding in the intestines of your fish. It's just not worth the risks.

Frozen bloodworms are a gentler, healthier way to add lots of health to a goldfish's diet. If you're interested, Steve Hopkins from RainGarden has an article on the benefits of bloodworms, and I also find that it is a great argument for not feeding them anything other than moist and red as they were in life.

Thank you for the link. I did pre-soak them before they went into my gel food where they were then blended to bits with everything else. I'll certainly stop using them as soon as possible. I only have a little bit of that batch yet and they've seemed to have zero issues with it (probably because of the grand pea content). They have plenty of other food anyways. :P

That's also something to point out... peas are one of the things that give goldfish gas. People swear by them, but honestly they aren't much good to a fish if they aren't being used as a vehicle for something like epsom (laxative) or powdered antibiotics. Feeding them whole peas (different from pea protein isolate) all the time is not beneficial for them. A good alternative to peas would be spinach, kale, or Nori. Nori seems to work best out of all the three while being the gentlest on the digestive system because it is a seaweed, not a land-based plant. Once soaked, it still retains its form and is therefore awesome for storing dried (roasted sushi seaweed) and rehydrating as-needed. If you still want to make your own gel, I would suggest switching out those peas for something like spirulina powder. It's a type of algae, and great for goldfish tummies.

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According to the American Goldfish Association standards Sharon posted yesterday, there are 3 types of head growth:

- Goosehead: top of the head (common in Red Cap Orandas)

- Tiger Head: top of the head and cheeks

- Lionhead: top of the head, cheeks and opercula

Full, large head growth is considered a desirable characteristic in Orandas. A large wen does not imply the fish was stunted, but is instead attributed to genetics, and can be somewhat assisted by diet. Many people want to "fatten" the wen, and so will feed foods designed for this purpose. (The Hikari foods Lionhead and Oranda even state this on the packaging, I believe.)

Some people actually call the Goosehead Orandas "Jelly Head Orandas," so I would say the name you gave is appropriate!

Edited by *Amanda*

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I would throw those freeze-dried ones out immediately. Even after soaking, they still hold air. I would assume that this is the same in your gel food, unless you turn them to powder first. They also expand quite a bit when soaked, so unless you soak them before adding them to the gel you will be getting things expanding in the intestines of your fish. It's just not worth the risks.

Frozen bloodworms are a gentler, healthier way to add lots of health to a goldfish's diet. If you're interested, Steve Hopkins from RainGarden has an article on the benefits of bloodworms, and I also find that it is a great argument for not feeding them anything other than moist and red as they were in life.

Thank you for the link. I did pre-soak them before they went into my gel food where they were then blended to bits with everything else. I'll certainly stop using them as soon as possible. I only have a little bit of that batch yet and they've seemed to have zero issues with it (probably because of the grand pea content). They have plenty of other food anyways. :P

That's also something to point out... peas are one of the things that give goldfish gas. People swear by them, but honestly they aren't much good to a fish if they aren't being used as a vehicle for something like epsom (laxative) or powdered antibiotics. Feeding them whole peas (different from pea protein isolate) all the time is not beneficial for them. A good alternative to peas would be spinach, kale, or Nori. Nori seems to work best out of all the three while being the gentlest on the digestive system because it is a seaweed, not a land-based plant. Once soaked, it still retains its form and is therefore awesome for storing dried (roasted sushi seaweed) and rehydrating as-needed. If you still want to make your own gel, I would suggest switching out those peas for something like spirulina powder. It's a type of algae, and great for goldfish tummies.

Thank you for that head's up! Candy Corn in particular gets floaty a lot so I used a recipe I found out on the internet that primarily used peas as a fix. I'll have to see what I can replace them with.

According to the American Goldfish Association standards Sharon posted yesterday, there are 3 types of head growth:

- Goosehead: top of the head (common in Red Cap Orandas)

- Tiger Head: top of the head and cheeks

- Lionhead: top of the head, cheeks and opercula

Full, large head growth is considered a desirable characteristic in Orandas. A large wen does not imply the fish was stunted, but is instead attributed to genetics, and can be somewhat assisted by diet. Many people want to "fatten" the wen, and so will feed foods designed for this purpose. (The Hikari foods Lionhead and Oranda even state this on the packaging, I believe.)

Some people actually call the Goosehead Orandas "Jelly Head Orandas," so I would say the name you gave is appropriate!

Thank you for taking the time to find that for me. :heart I do feed them Hikari meant to improve wen growth but so far it's all been outwards. The bubbly cheeks surprised me, hehe.

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Since you are in the USA, have you thought about ordering some Repashy Super Green as a gel and then following that up with some frozen bloodworms for protein? I did that this summer and all of my fish benefited from it, floaty or not. I would highly recommend checking it out. Just remember that you need to add an animal protein alongside the Super Green. Frozen Bloodworms are the best for this, and you don't even have to mix them into the gel. Just feed FBW as one meal, and then gel as the others during the day. :)

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Since you are in the USA, have you thought about ordering some Repashy Super Green as a gel and then following that up with some frozen bloodworms for protein? I did that this summer and all of my fish benefited from it, floaty or not. I would highly recommend checking it out. Just remember that you need to add an animal protein alongside the Super Green. Frozen Bloodworms are the best for this, and you don't even have to mix them into the gel. Just feed FBW as one meal, and then gel as the others during the day. :)

I've heard of it (I believe Solid Gold did a video on it) but I went with the hand making my own version because I'm trying to be a frugal college student. :P I know that doesn't go well hand in hand with fish keeping but I already had the vegetables and everything I needed for it minus the $1 for Knox, so yeah. I'll have to shop for prices. Right now they have Hikari Oranda, Omega One (literally just added because I got it for free) and then get treats of blanched carrots and the other day, a bit of clementine.

Thank you for all the advice by the way. Crazy how little "solid" facts there are for Goldfish. I frequent a few other communities and both recommend different things all the time.

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Since you are in the USA, have you thought about ordering some Repashy Super Green as a gel and then following that up with some frozen bloodworms for protein? I did that this summer and all of my fish benefited from it, floaty or not. I would highly recommend checking it out. Just remember that you need to add an animal protein alongside the Super Green. Frozen Bloodworms are the best for this, and you don't even have to mix them into the gel. Just feed FBW as one meal, and then gel as the others during the day. :)

I've heard of it (I believe Solid Gold did a video on it) but I went with the hand making my own version because I'm trying to be a frugal college student. :P I know that doesn't go well hand in hand with fish keeping but I already had the vegetables and everything I needed for it minus the $1 for Knox, so yeah. I'll have to shop for prices. Right now they have Hikari Oranda, Omega One (literally just added because I got it for free) and then get treats of blanched carrots and the other day, a bit of clementine.

Thank you for all the advice by the way. Crazy how little "solid" facts there are for Goldfish. I frequent a few other communities and both recommend different things all the time.

This is what I am doing...Thera-A then Super Green then FBW :)

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Most orandas I see at the store have goosehead growth. A few years ago, I saw this face with what the petstore called a raspberry wen, and I could not resist.

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Gwen was my favorite fish. She was the only fish that ever came to my hand and seemed to want to have her heard rubbed. :heart

6834463800_a9859977ef_c.jpg

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Since you are in the USA, have you thought about ordering some Repashy Super Green as a gel and then following that up with some frozen bloodworms for protein? I did that this summer and all of my fish benefited from it, floaty or not. I would highly recommend checking it out. Just remember that you need to add an animal protein alongside the Super Green. Frozen Bloodworms are the best for this, and you don't even have to mix them into the gel. Just feed FBW as one meal, and then gel as the others during the day. :)

I've heard of it (I believe Solid Gold did a video on it) but I went with the hand making my own version because I'm trying to be a frugal college student. :P I know that doesn't go well hand in hand with fish keeping but I already had the vegetables and everything I needed for it minus the $1 for Knox, so yeah. I'll have to shop for prices. Right now they have Hikari Oranda, Omega One (literally just added because I got it for free) and then get treats of blanched carrots and the other day, a bit of clementine.

Thank you for all the advice by the way. Crazy how little "solid" facts there are for Goldfish. I frequent a few other communities and both recommend different things all the time.

A bag of super green costs about as much as making a couple batches of gel food nowadays, it seems, with the price of veggies. I'm a college student as well and it honestly is one of the most inexpensive foods I have bought for my fish. Since your fish are pretty small, I bet a bag of that will last you much longer than you'd think. Even my big guys weren't able to go through a 16oz bag of super green in 4 months, and I was overfeeding them. The FBW is easy to buy in bulk as well, or in sheets that last much longer than single cubes. It really is a wise investment, and takes a lot less of our study time away.

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Most orandas I see at the store have goosehead growth. A few years ago, I saw this face with what the petstore called a raspberry wen, and I could not resist.

Gwen was my favorite fish. She was the only fish that ever came to my hand and seemed to want to have her heard rubbed. :heart

Oh my gosh the face in the first photo. Thank you for the share. I always want to touch Jelly Bean's wen because I still don't now what it actually feels like but she ain't having it.

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Most orandas I see at the store have goosehead growth. A few years ago, I saw this face with what the petstore called a raspberry wen, and I could not resist.

Gwen was my favorite fish. She was the only fish that ever came to my hand and seemed to want to have her heard rubbed. :heart

Oh my gosh the face in the first photo. Thank you for the share. I always want to touch Jelly Bean's wen because I still don't now what it actually feels like but she ain't having it.

I know, right? I took that photo of her in the petstore because a friend was looking for a fish, but after having it on my phone for a few days, I had to go back and buy her myself. :heart

When I first got my fish, I didn't touch them, and it's harder when they are smaller. But I would see on here a lot that mods would ask about a fish's belly. And I realized that I would have no idea if my fish's belly was extra squishy because I didn't know what it was like normally. So I got in the habit of grabbing them and looking them over during WCs.

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I bought the big 64 oz bag of Soilent Green. I think it was like $59 but I could see it lasting me like 2 years, since I don't feed it exclusively (I also feed NLS Thera-A, Saki Hikari purple, Pro Gold and just picked up FBW cubes and Omega One nori today). :)

Never tried Super Green. I like that the Soilent Green has both animal and plant ingredients. But I will pick up a bag of Super Green to supplement next time if it's beneficial; I just started hearing about it a few months ago and it seems a lot of people like it.

Edited by *Amanda*

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I bought the big 64 oz bag of Soilent Green. I think it was like $59 but I could see it lasting me like 2 years, since I don't feed it exclusively (I also feed NLS Thera-A, Saki Hikari purple, Pro Gold and just picked up FBW cubes and Omega One nori today). :)

Never tried Super Green. I like that the Soilent Green has both animal and plant ingredients. But I will pick up a bag of Super Green to supplement next time if it's beneficial; I just started hearing about it a few months ago and it seems a lot of people like it.

Definitely going to go looking for the next time I have loose funds. :heart Thank you for the input!

As for the Omega One, how is the Omega One nori diffrent? Just curious since I'm not familiar with the brand. I just grabbed it because I was familiar with the name being thrown around and the pet store didn't have anything else. Hikari is so expensive to ship it's maddening.

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I bought the big 64 oz bag of Soilent Green. I think it was like $59 but I could see it lasting me like 2 years, since I don't feed it exclusively (I also feed NLS Thera-A, Saki Hikari purple, Pro Gold and just picked up FBW cubes and Omega One nori today). :)

Never tried Super Green. I like that the Soilent Green has both animal and plant ingredients. But I will pick up a bag of Super Green to supplement next time if it's beneficial; I just started hearing about it a few months ago and it seems a lot of people like it.

Definitely going to go looking for the next time I have loose funds. :heart Thank you for the input!

As for the Omega One, how is the Omega One nori diffrent? Just curious since I'm not familiar with the brand. I just grabbed it because I was familiar with the name being thrown around and the pet store didn't have anything else. Hikari is so expensive to ship it's maddening.

To be honest, I don't think the Omega One nori is any different from other brands - it's just seaweed. It was the only one in Petsmart when I was there today for my dogs' appointment at Banfield. I had never actually used nori for my fish, but figured I'd pick some up after hearing Chelsea and others here talk about it. My goldfish didn't seem too thrilled, but my BN pleco ate it up like there was no tomorrow. Except I want to eat it - the smell reminds me of my high school boyfriend's mom's awesome cooking. She put nori on EVERYTHING! She was Mexican and the dad was Japanese, so as you can imagine there were some very interesting and fantastic meals! :D

I've always heard good things about Omega One foods in general, because they don't contain as many fillers and their top ingredients are quality animal proteins. I saw their sinking goldfish pellets at Petsmart, but they only had the big ones. I think smaller pellets are preferable, except perhaps for large single tails. And sinking pellets are preferred because it minimizes the amount of air the fish swallows. I wish Hikari would rename their foods "sinking" and "floating" instead of "Lionhead" and "Oranda," because the latter implies they are better for the kind of fish on the bag when in fact Lionhead is the better choice for all types of goldfish. I bought the Oranda too, because, well, my fish were Orandas. :huh: Now, I just feed the Oranda pellets rarely, like once a week. I don't want them to go to waste, but I'm worried about them causing gas problems if fed daily. With weekly feeding, it hasn't caused any problems, but I noticed a couple of my fish getting floaty when I was feeding them as the staple diet last year.

Our sponsor Tasty Worms actually just got rid of shipping costs. They carry a LOT of the foods we recommend, as well as a variety of other stuff for fish and other pets. I have done business with them and would highly recommend them. Their prices are very competitive, which you don't hear of too often with smaller businesses. :)

Edited by *Amanda*

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Definitely going to go looking for the next time I have loose funds. :heart Thank you for the input!

As for the Omega One, how is the Omega One nori diffrent? Just curious since I'm not familiar with the brand. I just grabbed it because I was familiar with the name being thrown around and the pet store didn't have anything else. Hikari is so expensive to ship it's maddening.

To be honest, I don't think the Omega One nori is any different from other brands - it's just seaweed. It was the only one in Petsmart when I was there today for my dogs' appointment at Banfield. I had never actually used nori for my fish, but figured I'd pick some up after hearing Chelsea and others here talk about it. My goldfish didn't seem too thrilled, but my BN pleco ate it up like there was no tomorrow. Except I want to eat it - the smell reminds me of my high school boyfriend's mom's awesome cooking. She put nori on EVERYTHING! She was Mexican and the dad was Japanese, so as you can imagine there were some very interesting and fantastic meals! :D

I've always heard good things about Omega One foods in general, because they don't contain as many fillers and their top ingredients are quality animal proteins. I saw their sinking goldfish pellets at Petsmart, but they only had the big ones. I think smaller pellets are preferable, except perhaps for large single tails. And sinking pellets are preferred because it minimizes the amount of air the fish swallows. I wish Hikari would rename their foods "sinking" and "floating" instead of "Lionhead" and "Oranda," because the latter implies they are better for the kind of fish on the bag when in fact Lionhead is the better choice for all types of goldfish. I bought the Oranda too, because, well, my fish were Orandas. :huh: Now, I just feed the Oranda pellets rarely, like once a week. I don't want them to go to waste, but I'm worried about them causing gas problems if fed daily. With weekly feeding, it hasn't caused any problems, but I noticed a couple of my fish getting floaty when I was feeding them as the staple diet last year.

Our sponsor Tasty Worms actually just got rid of shipping costs. They carry a LOT of the foods we recommend, as well as a variety of other stuff for fish and other pets. I have done business with them and would highly recommend them. Their prices are very competitive, which you don't hear of too often with smaller businesses. :)

Funnily, I got my jar of Omega One from Petsmart too because they had nothing else. I have the small pellets and let me tell you, they are tiny. Forth of the size of Hikari at best. However, I get a kick of dropping them into my filter outflow because then it becomes goldfish olympics to chase all the little bits. :teehee

For Hikari, when there are bits that won't sink, it helps get them a tad wet and then squish them. If you do this underwater you should see a tiny air bubble or two come out and then they'll sink again! For some reason this is super satisfying for me so I always do it when I have the chance.

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I just use the plain roasted nori from the supermarket, not any special fish-specific brands. I find it to be lower-priced and just as effective. The only ingredient in it is the seaweed, so it is just fine to use.

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